Disney is going to scale back the Polynesian DVC plans in a big way.

[omurice]

Max occupancy is much higher than 30 I know that, closer to 50. But think about what works with Sam's - its intimate (which means small, close quarters, chummy, etc), and the effects are shared with everybody. Smaller chunks means that you don't share the experience. You suddenly have a separation between the patrons and/or duplication of otherwise special props and effects. So there's going to be 2 or 3 sinking Wicked Wenches whenever somebody orders a Shipwreck on the Rocks? The shared show is what makes Sam's unique - otherwise yes you could have an ordinary tiki bar like Forbidden Island, Don the Beachcomber's, Smuggler's Cove, etc. Exactly how many windows does Sam's need in order to fulfill the "volcano needs" of a bar 2-3x the size?

Again, its intended as a hotel bar to accommodate the surrounding 3 towers of The Disneyland Hotel. Naturally anybody is welcome to come and sit as you would with any other bar or hotel bar, but this is why it likely will make a home in FLA at the Polynesian Resort and not Disney Springs.

That latest Scott Keating aerial pic of DTD / Springs from 1/17/2014, it looks like the vacant Adventurer's Club building is STILL THERE on Pleasure Island. I'm amazed about how much of PI they have NOT bulldozed. Just Comedy Warehouse and a few other buildings to the southwest, and a couple north of Raglan Road have been demolished. But the BET and Adv Club pair of buildings, and some of the other defunct dance club structures appear to be there after laying vacant for 5 years... just amazes me.
What on earth could they be planning to put in those buildings? I can see why Adv Club fans remain hopeful after all this time. Their favorite place sits there empty and gutted, but the walls are still standing (for now). That is agonizing even to me and I never got to see Adv Club.

I did get to visit Trader Sam's at DL hotel last year which was a treat, I really felt the appeal. A giant version of that I agree with PPs it would not feel the same (but I would probably still go). The locals haunt Sam's though it's packed on Friday and Sat. at very least. Noobs like me could barely approach the bar on a Friday night -- had to wait for some friendly podcasters to migrate outside.

 

[kkocka]

Yeah I can't speak too much as to WDW and Springs. I've seen the vacancies in Springs but if I recall, there was a bit of a jumping to the conclusion that Sam's was going to be in Springs to begin with. I believe it was a hasty move to include the Sam's logo on that mood board of potential vendors that would populate Springs. Take a look:

Do "Disney Burger" and "Wine Bar" sound like legit places? We all know that there is much more thought into naming a restaurant when you're at Disney. Plus you'll see the Food Network logo there - again this was just a mood board to give you an idea as to what to expect with Downtown Disney 2.0

 

[71jason]

^ Exactly. The mood board was meant to sway tenants with theoretically possible tenants, not a public announcement.

While I second everything you said about size affecting special effects, the other problem with having a larger Trader Sam's would be the drinks. At a certain point, economies of scale will prevent the hand-crafted traditional cocktails Sam's serves. It will become throw some rum in a glass with OJ and pineapple juice--assuming it's not already pre-mixed like, say, the Kungaloosh.

 

[Duckberg]

Tiki drinks at Trader Sam's @ DL can be hit or miss based upon the server on duty. I've had great & so so there.

 

[ryguy]

So will there be a trader sams at Downtown Disney too? Or just the polynesian?

 

[Bocabear]

This. The effects wouldn't work in a larger environment. Guest demand won't allow the time to make the true tiki drinks currently offered. And the whole place will be overrun with locals. I hope to be pleasantly surprised, but there are a lot of potential issues here--Orlando is not Anaheim.

While I am concerned about blowing out the size of trader Sam's for WDW, I feel like the whole vibe is similar to Adventurer's club and could work in a larger footprint with many intimate spaces and effects... it worked there, it can work for trader Sam's... And no one wants to get stuck sitting out on the porch at trader Sam's...it is charmless. Hopefully they will do it justice.

 

[71jason]

While I am concerned about blowing out the size of trader Sam's for WDW, I feel like the whole vibe is similar to Adventurer's club and could work in a larger footprint with many intimate spaces and effects... it worked there, it can work for trader Sam's...

Two points of disagreement. I don't think the Sam's vibe is anything at all like the AdvClub vibe (not directed at you, but everyone I've heard say that never actually visited the Club). And the most "intimate" space at the Club probably held as many people as Sam's total seating--for 15 minutes, not all night.

 

[Bocabear]

I was a frequent visitor to the Adventurer's Club in it's heyday, and have been to Trader Sam's quite a few times. While I agree the vibe is not the same, I believe you can make a fun, beautifully designed larger version work as well... The Mask Room and Treasure Room at the Adventurer's Club were quite small...much smaller than trader Sam's... I think this could absolutely be successful with multi rooms and multi bars...Good design can create an intimate environment, and while it will never have the exact feel of trader Sam's, it can be a unique and wonderful addition to the Poly....which desperately needs a nice bar that is not a waiting area for O'Hana.

 

[ford91exploder]

^ Exactly. The mood board was meant to sway tenants with theoretically possible tenants, not a public announcement.

While I second everything you said about size affecting special effects, the other problem with having a larger Trader Sam's would be the drinks. At a certain point, economies of scale will prevent the hand-crafted traditional cocktails Sam's serves. It will become throw some rum in a glass with OJ and pineapple juice--assuming it's not already pre-mixed like, say, the Kungaloosh.

My bet is on premixed - cheaper and allows Disney to hire lowest rung bartenders who skills include only shot-n-a-beer and on a good day could distingush white and red wine (after it comes out of the box)

They will probably use one of THESE systems

 

[Bocabear]

The Resort bars tend to have better bartenders though... they have had the same bartender at the lounge in the Boardwalk for YEARS... I think they could pull off a hand crafted cocktail... they still manage to do it at the Top of the World lounge in BLT as well as others... let's all hope for the best.!

 

[Master Yoda]

The Resort bars tend to have better bartenders though... they have had the same bartender at the lounge in the Boardwalk for YEARS... I think they could pull off a hand crafted cocktail... they still manage to do it at the Top of the World lounge in BLT as well as others... let's all hope for the best.!

Smaller capacity bars allow them to have good bartenders. There reaches a point where the need to serve so many customers per hour makes it quite hard for a good bartender the time to be just that. Sure, there are a few out there that can move at a blinding speed and still maintain good quality, but they are as rare as good NFL quarterbacks.

You run of the mill hotel bar currently at many of the Disney resorts are not super busy.

A themed bar like Trader Sams is going to be an absolute mom scene at WDW.

 

[71jason]

it can be a unique and wonderful addition to the Poly....which desperately needs a nice bar that is not a waiting area for O'Hana.

I'm with you there. Doesn't even have to be involved as Trader Sam's, something along the lines of Mizners or Victoria Falls would be great.

 

[asianway]

Smaller capacity bars allow them to have good bartenders. There reaches a point where the need to serve so many customers per hour makes it quite hard for a good bartender the time to be just that. Sure, there are a few out there that can move at a blinding speed and still maintain good quality, but they are as rare as good NFL quarterbacks.

You run of the mill hotel bar currently at many of the Disney resorts are not super busy.

A themed bar like Trader Sams is going to be an absolute mom scene at WDW.

@71jason - Ever see moms trolling Mizners after the kids are asleep? Or is it mostly convention cougars?

 

[71jason]

@71jason - Ever see moms trolling Mizners after the kids are asleep? Or is it mostly convention cougars?

More the latter. But also early-20s daughters who still do family vacation, CPs doing the Monorail Crawl.

 

[ford91exploder]

Smaller capacity bars allow them to have good bartenders. There reaches a point where the need to serve so many customers per hour makes it quite hard for a good bartender the time to be just that. Sure, there are a few out there that can move at a blinding speed and still maintain good quality, but they are as rare as good NFL quarterbacks.

You run of the mill hotel bar currently at many of the Disney resorts are not super busy.

A themed bar like Trader Sams is going to be an absolute mom scene at WDW.

All of Yoda's points are spot on the other issue is a really good bartender makes REAL money far more than TDO F&B is willing to pay which is why I think you will see one of these auto-bar's coming soon to a Disney resort near you as they drive alcohol shrinkage to zero, only the manager generally has access to the bottles you can even water the drinks down by adding water to the recipe thereby increasing profits even more.

AND it allows you to hire 'bartenders' at minimum wage so you can hire the canonical Bimbo and Stud bartenders and they can't screw up the drinks and no 'free' refills as the POS system authorizes the pour all they need to do is remember WHO ordered the drink.

 

[Duckberg]

For me the problem with the Poly has been the Tambu Lounge & their poor drink quality. If WDW is planning on using Tambu staff for the new TS, uh oh!!!

 

[Master Yoda]

All of Yoda's points are spot on the other issue is a really good bartender makes REAL money far more than TDO F&B is willing to pay which is why I think you will see one of these auto-bar's coming soon to a Disney resort near you as they drive alcohol shrinkage to zero, only the manager generally has access to the bottles you can even water the drinks down by adding water to the recipe thereby increasing profits even more.

AND it allows you to hire 'bartenders' at minimum wage so you can hire the canonical Bimbo and Stud bartenders and they can't screw up the drinks and no 'free' refills as the POS system authorizes the pour all they need to do is remember WHO ordered the drink.

You are leaving out the one positive...Those machines allow you to produce consistent drinks, time after time, at an alarming rate. 2 shots Cabo Wabo tequila, 1-ounce fresh lime juice, 1-ounce Cointreau and a splash of Grand Marnier produces a good margarita regardless if a human or a machine pours it.

Given the choice of a rushed bartender being off by 20%-50% when he/she pours and a machine that is always right, I'll take the machine.

 

[flynnibus]

Given the choice of a rushed bartender being off by 20%-50% when he/she pours and a machine that is always right, I'll take the machine.

It sterilizes the experience though. You don't goto a baseball game because it's the best way to view the game.. you go for the atmosphere and what's around you. Same thing with a bar.. and the bartender is a big part of that. Now, I am not the one who tries to be all buddy buddy with the bartender.. but I recognize the personality and the interaction is a large part of the bar experience. That includes the 'what is this drink going to be like...' question.

With strict controls like that its also harder to do adhoc drinks, etc. Like in most work environments, the more controls you put on employees to handcuff them to policies vs hiring good people and managing them properly.. the worse employees you end up with.

I've seen the pour monitors in use.. I haven't seen those drink towers myself. But in Norway it's funny because the beer pours are regulated.. every glass has a line on it and it must be filled to that exact line. They use auto pours for draft beer.

 

[Master Yoda]

It sterilizes the experience though. You don't goto a baseball game because it's the best way to view the game.. you go for the atmosphere and what's around you. Same thing with a bar.. and the bartender is a big part of that. Now, I am not the one who tries to be all buddy buddy with the bartender.. but I recognize the personality and the interaction is a large part of the bar experience. That includes the 'what is this drink going to be like...' question.

With strict controls like that its also harder to do adhoc drinks, etc. Like in most work environments, the more controls you put on employees to handcuff them to policies vs hiring good people and managing them properly.. the worse employees you end up with.

I've seen the pour monitors in use.. I haven't seen those drink towers myself. But in Norway it's funny because the beer pours are regulated.. every glass has a line on it and it must be filled to that exact line. They use auto pours for draft beer.

No question that there is give and take with auto pours, but there is no contest when it comes to consistency and speed. It is the price you pay for size and volume. You know what they say "better, faster, cheaper....you can pick only two"

 

[ABQ]

To relate to the point of the bartender at the Boardwalk's lounge and the consistency of drinks and so forth. I arrived that the lounge about 5 mins after it opened one afternoon. The bartender was still unloading all the alcohol from the cart as they clear out the lounge each evening to make room for coffee and pastries in the mornings. Two ladies had gotten there just before more and were looking over the flip top table tent thing listing all the god awful foo foo drinks available. After a while, they placed their order and the great bartender got to work. Must have taken him 10+ minutes to assemble these two concoctions, which from all I could tell were sweet syrupy things topped with more sweet stuff and even more on top of that and maybe a splash of rum. They charged their drinks and he turned to me. I said "Macallan 12, neat" He asked if he could hug me. I laughed and commented on the two drinks he made for the women. He stated that he didn't know who designed that silly drink list, but they NEVER, ever tended bar.
Be that as it may, if they install a "smart" next gen, drink dispensary, sure, they'll be consistent, but I like a good bartender vs a smart dispenser.