Disney is going to price us out of the Kingdom..

[PolynesianPrincess]

Currently have an AP. We are able to do 2 one week long trips per year. Right now, the AP makes sense for us. When it stops making sense, we will stop buying it. When vacationing at Disney doesn't make us happy anymore, we will go elsewhere.
Yes, Disney is expensive. I was able to price out a 2 week long Asia trip with the Asian parks, everything included for what it costs to do a one week trip to WDW. Prices will keep rising, that we know is true. But the rate at which tickets and resorts have increased is absurd. No ones pay is going up at even a quarter of the rate that prices are going up so yes, they are pricing people out but the crowds are still there. I know many people who have returned from a first trip and tell me they are never going again because the parks are too crowded, everything is too planned out and everything is too expensive. It's not the magical place they depict in commercials and ads. And I can see why they think that. You have to plan so far in advance what you want to eat and then you have to schedule your fastpasses... you have to sit over an hour early for a good parade spot.. you're herded with the masses into lines for attractions with a 60 minute + wait.... there is no spontaneity in trips to WDW anymore. Right now, the crowds keep coming but eventually Disney WILL reach a tipping point at which people will stop paying however, that point is different for everyone.

 

[NickMaio]

They are not losing customers, they are losing repeat business. We’re going in November and probably will spend $8-9K. Because the trip is so complicated to plan and expensive, I will probably not be a repeat customer. But, there will be plenty of families like me afterwards.

Isn't repeat business....customers? What ever you call them its lost revenue......

 

[mdcpr]

Isn't repeat business....customers? What ever you call them its lost revenue......

It is lost revenue, but which can be replaced with a different audience that is willing to pay more for something more unique an exclusive. As I mentioned earlier, I see WDW as wanting to transform itself on less of a "commodity" and add to exclusivity.

 

[Elaundar]

My wife and I are really angry about this last round of increases as out-of-state AP holders.

We absolutely understand the need to control the crowds and understand that the simplest way to do that is by price increases. (What they really need is more capacity and that can only be done through a 5th gate and creating new lands with more than two rides...)

However, they are disproportionately going after their most loyal fans who are in fact their highest spenders. Think about it... Unlike the Florida residents who can pop in anytime they choose, those of us who come from out-of-state have to spend a significant amount of money just to get there. Once there we typically stay on property, book table and signature dining, buy lots of pins & merchandise. We don't get 90% of the AP perks such as the special merchandise.

If this were truly about crowd control, then the Florida AP rates would be just as high. But no, this is about maximising revenue by going after their biggest fans.

So what are we going to do? Yeah, we'll keep going & keep getting the AP (probably just one for the discounts). However, odds are pretty low we're going to stay on property, and we're definitely not buying the stupid lightsabers we had planned on. In fact going forward the more they raise the less we buy. The result is a loss to Disney and we don't pay a dime more.

The real problem, however, with this jacked up price increase is they've turned loyal fans into bitter fans who are unlikely to sing the praises of Disney to their friends and colleagues.

 

[mdcpr]

My wife and I are really angry about this last round of increases as out-of-state AP holders.

We absolutely understand the need to control the crowds and understand that the simplest way to do that is by price increases. (What they really need is more capacity and that can only be done through a 5th gate and creating new lands with more than two rides...)

However, they are disproportionately going after their most loyal fans who are in fact their highest spenders. Think about it... Unlike the Florida residents who can pop in anytime they choose, those of us who come from out-of-state have to spend a significant amount of money just to get there. Once there we typically stay on property, book table and signature dining, buy lots of pins & merchandise. We don't get 90% of the AP perks such as the special merchandise.

If this were truly about crowd control, then the Florida AP rates would be just as high. But no, this is about maximising revenue by going after their biggest fans.

So what are we going to do? Yeah, we'll keep going & keep getting the AP (probably just one for the discounts). However, odds are pretty low we're going to stay on property, and we're definitely not buying the stupid lightsabers we had planned on. In fact going forward the more they raise the less we buy. The result is a loss to Disney and we don't pay a dime more.

The real problem, however, with this jacked up price increase is they've turned loyal fans into bitter fans who are unlikely to sing the praises of Disney to their friends and colleagues.

I've been to WDW 4 times, and taking my family for the first time this year, and I'm fed up with what they are doing. As much as I know that we're going to have a great times, I'm just not liking the way they treat their loyal customers, and for that, this might be my family's only trip there.

 

[fiji271]

Let me start by saying I like and respect all the posters on this board and feel like I have a lot in common with you. However, many of you are holding Disney to a standard you would not practice yourself. How many of us work for companies that do not try to maximize profits? Hopefully none. If you are self employed do you not try to earn as much revenue as possible? Disney is a for profit company and whether I like it or not their primary goal must be increasing shareholder wealth (like all publicly traded companies). I have stopped going to Disney due to the expense and large crowds. I am not willing to pay current prices to fight crowds, but I would be willing to pay more If it meant lower crowds. Disney knows there are many potential customers who feel the same way.

 

[DisneyDaver]

The real problem, however, with this jacked up price increase is they've turned loyal fans into bitter fans who are unlikely to sing the praises of Disney to their friends and colleagues.

It doesn't seem to matter ... the prices keep going up, up and up, and the crowds keep going up, up and up. If you keep raising prices and the crowds keep going up, the market is telling to you to keep raising prices. Sure, there is a limit to what the market will bear for prices increases, but it seems like we are not at that limit yet.

 

[Jon81uk]

(What they really need is more capacity and that can only be done through a 5th gate and creating new lands with more than two rides...)

A fifth gate will not reduce the crowds at the Magic Kingdom and it is not going to happen. Adding a third ride in Star Wars Land would help a little, but the main draw is the land itself and the small experiences, same as Harry Potter at Universal. Building out Epcot, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom as they are currently (or have been recently) will help draw people away from Magic Kingdom. But a fifth gate will not make a difference to crowds, in fact it could make it worse if more people decide to vacation to WDW to see the new offering.

 

[networkpro]

Let me start by saying I like and respect all the posters on this board and feel like I have a lot in common with you. However, many of you are holding Disney to a standard you would not practice yourself. How many of us work for companies that do not try to maximize profits? Hopefully none. If you are self employed do you not try to earn as much revenue as possible? Disney is a for profit company and whether I like it or not their primary goal must be increasing shareholder wealth (like all publicly traded companies). I have stopped going to Disney due to the expense and large crowds. I am not willing to pay current prices to fight crowds, but I would be willing to pay more If it meant lower crowds. Disney knows there are many potential customers who feel the same way.

Thank you for your opinion and welcome. You see first hand the quandary lots of us face when trying to communicate business processes to people who have internalized and romanticized trips to the Walt Disney World Resort. We get exuberant exaltations that they are "going home" while at the same time they complain that their "special relationship" with the business is jeopardized by the cost of it not remaining fixed. Diatribes of "greed' and "class warfare" predominate any discussion of exactly how much a trip may or really costs.

 

[epcotisbest]

Thank you for your opinion and welcome. You see first hand the quandary lots of us face when trying to communicate business processes to people who have internalized and romanticized trips to the Walt Disney World Resort. We get exuberant exaltations that they are "going home" while at the same time they complain that their "special relationship" with the business is jeopardized by the cost of it not remaining fixed. Diatribes of "greed' and "class warfare" predominate any discussion of exactly how much a trip may or really costs.

Yeah, and it seems nobody remembers the elasticity and inelasticity part of economics class, or skipped economics altogether.

 

[NickMaio]

It is lost revenue, but which can be replaced with a different audience that is willing to pay more for something more unique an exclusive. As I mentioned earlier, I see WDW as wanting to transform itself on less of a "commodity" and add to exclusivity.

If I remember correctly from one of my marketing university courses - - -for ever 1 customer a business loses they need to gain 5 in order to recap the lost revenue.

 

[mdcpr]

If I remember correctly from one of my marketing university courses - - -for ever 1 customer a business loses they need to gain 5 in order to recap the lost revenue.

Yes, but I don't think Disney is following this logic. I keep saying it, I'm sure they want to transform themselves into less of a 'commodity' for repeat customers, and more of an 'exclusive' experience for those than can spend more. Universal Studios have successfully positioned themselves to cater to those with more money, but Disney has not been able to do so. The perception is that Disney is for the masses, Universal is for a different audience.

 

[John park hopper]

If Disney wants to cater to the rich maybe they can designate one week out of each month to the 1% (not the Hell's angels). Disney can call it "We are better than you week" As a prerequisite you must provide your W-2 showing an income of over 1 million. Charge 10 times the current rates. ---sarcasm (wish was in the 1%)

 

[Trackmaster]

If I remember correctly from one of my marketing university courses - - -for ever 1 customer a business loses they need to gain 5 in order to recap the lost revenue.

Facts and circumstances my friend. That sounds like a cookie cutter answer to a complex question. You have to know your industry and know your business. I think that what your professor is trying to say is that repeat business trumps new business. The 5:1 ratio isn't going to work every time. There's also the philosophy that if if you can't relying on old customers and never bring in new business, you'll die a slow death.

Disney is a complicated monster. They do a mixture of loyal, repeat customers, and continue to bring in new people. Its considered a "rite of passage" for much of the country, and they have their diehards. Whatever you think they're messing up on, you're clearly wrong. They're clearly the top dog in the industry, and have been for decades. And at this point, they get so much international traffic that they can do whatever they want it won't really matter. International tourists will always want to come and see what Disney is all about.

 

[Trackmaster]

If Disney wants to cater to the rich maybe they can designate one week out of each month to the 1% (not the Hell's angels). Disney can call it "We are better than you week" As a prerequisite you must provide your W-2 showing an income of over 1 million. Charge 10 times the current rates. ---sarcasm (wish was in the 1%)

There's not enough 1% around who is willing to go to Disney to fill the parks. They can offer more stuff for more wealthy patrons, but they need to get the 99% in to fill the park. Think about the way that airlines operate.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Yeah, and it seems nobody remembers the elasticity and inelasticity part of economics class, or skipped economics altogether.

Literally half the people on this forum

"It'Z EcoNoMIKCS!!"

 

[eliza61nyc]

If I remember correctly from one of my marketing university courses - - -for ever 1 customer a business loses they need to gain 5 in order to recap the lost revenue.

That is true up to a point. there is a point where you are extremely successful that it doesn't take a whole bunch of energy to replace that customer lost.
My sister in law in an extremely successful event planner, highly sought after for major events (did one of the inaugural balls) and she does weddings. She ain't cheap, if you want her companies services you are going to drop 60K on your wedding. She's not worried about losing the occasional customer that is strapped for cash. after 25 years she's got enough proof that back up her prices.

My company makes a chemical commonly used in firefighting applications. It is the best in the world, it ain't cheap. No they are not worried about losing market share (well let's say rather, they are not worried this year) . There are cheaper products but they are inferior, now when the patent runs out they will not expect the same profit margins because it will be open to generic manufacturing but right now, we get top dollar for the product and if some small outfit balks at the price we work with quantity. we do not lower the price.

I'm more worried about Disney getting a handle on crowds, people imo will pay a heck of a lot of money if they are assured a good time. can't have a good time if you're perpetually waiting in line. That's the kind of bad press that will cause your new customer to not come.

Next Disney is always rejuvenating their "loyal" customer. One fact of life is that the current "loyal" customer is getting old but folks are still having babies, those folks are going to be the next loyal customer. Also the older loyal customer that is getting older has more disposable income, they are finish with the heavy lifting of raising kids and can now "spoil" their grandkids. I always point to this event

$500 bucks to have tea with fairy godmother!! most folks would think that's insane and yet it was a wait list and packed with meemaws and poppops, including my brother who were only too happy to see their little grandbabies ooh and ahhh.

 

[epcotisbest]

Literally half the people on this forum

"It'Z EcoNoMIKCS!!"

View attachment 383920

Calling something economics and understanding economics are two completely different things.

 

[networkpro]

If Disney wants to cater to the rich maybe they can designate one week out of each month to the 1% (not the Hell's angels). Disney can call it "We are better than you week" As a prerequisite you must provide your W-2 showing an income of over 1 million. Charge 10 times the current rates. ---sarcasm (wish was in the 1%)

Its only $421,000.00 per annum to be in the top 1% of income earners in the entire US. Wealth and income are not the same. Wealth is net possessions, while income is the rate of accumulating wealth. Hence the change in wealth over that time period is equal to the income minus the expenditures in that period.

So if your expenditures exceed your accumulations, you dont accrete. Again it's aspirational vs concrete financial planning.

 

[NickMaio]

Facts and circumstances my friend. That sounds like a cookie cutter answer to a complex question. You have to know your industry and know your business. I think that what your professor is trying to say is that repeat business trumps new business. The 5:1 ratio isn't going to work every time. There's also the philosophy that if if you can't relying on old customers and never bring in new business, you'll die a slow death.

Disney is a complicated monster. They do a mixture of loyal, repeat customers, and continue to bring in new people. Its considered a "rite of passage" for much of the country, and they have their diehards. Whatever you think they're messing up on, you're clearly wrong. They're clearly the top dog in the industry, and have been for decades. And at this point, they get so much international traffic that they can do whatever they want it won't really matter. International tourists will always want to come and see what Disney is all about.

Of course it will not work in every scenario - - - - - it is a standard calculation reinforcing the importance of a repeat / loyal customer vs the new customer who never returns.