Disney is going to price us out of the Kingdom..

[NickMaio]

My wife and I are really angry about this last round of increases as out-of-state AP holders.

We absolutely understand the need to control the crowds and understand that the simplest way to do that is by price increases. (What they really need is more capacity and that can only be done through a 5th gate and creating new lands with more than two rides...)

However, they are disproportionately going after their most loyal fans who are in fact their highest spenders. Think about it... Unlike the Florida residents who can pop in anytime they choose, those of us who come from out-of-state have to spend a significant amount of money just to get there. Once there we typically stay on property, book table and signature dining, buy lots of pins & merchandise. We don't get 90% of the AP perks such as the special merchandise.

If this were truly about crowd control, then the Florida AP rates would be just as high. But no, this is about maximising revenue by going after their biggest fans.

So what are we going to do? Yeah, we'll keep going & keep getting the AP (probably just one for the discounts). However, odds are pretty low we're going to stay on property, and we're definitely not buying the stupid lightsabers we had planned on. In fact going forward the more they raise the less we buy. The result is a loss to Disney and we don't pay a dime more.

The real problem, however, with this jacked up price increase is they've turned loyal fans into bitter fans who are unlikely to sing the praises of Disney to their friends and colleagues.

The BEST way to control crowds would be to create more space - - more expansions - - perhaps a 5th gate.
Not loading already crowded parks with more rides, the MK will be absolutely catastrophically nuts when TRON gets up and running.

Epcot with 2 news rides will now also be wild - - - - - I remember when frozen opened - my snoozer park was jammed with people. Spaceship Earth was a 60 mins wait.....Prior to this it was never more than 15 mins for SPE.

Come on WDW - - - - - expand the other parks as well.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Calling something economics and understanding economics are two completely different things.

Most people who take the condescending approach to "educating" others on economics around here don't.

 

[eliza61nyc]

It's also the new disgruntled customer that never returns.
Not only do you lose that customer but that customer will spread bad word of mouth on a negative experience or product.

There seems to be alot of delusional people who think that Disney doesn't need loyal customers since they will just find new suckers.
This isn't a good business model. This kind of arrogance is what led to the downfall of the American car industry. It's been a slow decline but you can see it mirrored in the decline of the city of Detroit and outskirts.

of course they need new customers. I don't think anyone said that but remember customer loyalty covers a wide wide range.
What people her freak out about, is not the same issues for the "next" generation. case in point, IP in the parks.

I said in just the above post, I don't think it's the rising prices that will get Disney. The huge crowds are whats going to give the bad experience. Todays newer guest aren't flipping out over have to pay for parking, they are use to that. they will get a negative experience from standing in line for 2 hours or the inability to get in the park at all. We get upset when a park attraction doesn't "match" or "fit" in a park. that's not a big issue for the newer first timer.

The car industry is a bit different in that the quality of the cars were crap. not the price. Toyotas and hondas came on the scene with reliable cars while FORD became known as "fix or repair daily". again, imo people will drop a boat load of dough IF they think they are getting a good product.

 

[epcotisbest]

Most people who take the condescending approach to "educating" others on economics around here don't.

Not sure what that means.

 

[NickMaio]

of course they need new customers. I don't think anyone said that but remember customer loyalty covers a wide wide range.
What people her freak out about, is not the same issues for the "next" generation. case in point, IP in the parks.

I said in just the above post, I don't think it's the rising prices that will get Disney. The huge crowds are whats going to give the bad experience. Todays newer guest aren't flipping out over have to pay for parking, they are use to that. they will get a negative experience from standing in line for 2 hours or the inability to get in the park at all. We get upset when a park attraction doesn't "match" or "fit" in a park. that's not a big issue for the newer first timer.

The car industry is a bit different in that the quality of the cars were crap. not the price. Toyotas and hondas came on the scene with reliable cars while FORD became known as "fix or repair daily". again, imo people will drop a boat load of dough IF they think they are getting a good product.

This is simply not true - - - The American car industry was riding at an all time high for customer satisfaction and awards from top automotive publishers. The reason why they went bankrupt were a few, their assembly workers and employees were getting paid too much, compared to the minimal mark ups on their cars. One f-150 was sold in North America every 15 seconds , averaging, in the same year that they claimed bankruptcy.
Their image was almost at the top of their game at their decline.

 

[eliza61nyc]

This is simply not true - - - The American car industry was riding at an all time high for customer satisfaction and awards from top automotive publishers. The reason why they went bankrupt were a few, their assembly workers and employees were getting paid too much, compared to the minimal mark ups on their cars. One f-150 was sold in North America every 15 seconds , averaging, in the same year that they claimed bankruptcy.
Their image was almost at the top of their game at their decline.

Really?? Ok I heard otherwise, I was at the Univ of Pitt when the steal industry went South and the narrative we heard was American cars sucked. That pretty much is still a major preconceptions.

I don't have a lot of background in this topic so thanks for the explanation.

But not understanding how union salaries would effect customer loyalty,. Why did people stop buying American cars??

 

[Hakunamatata]

Really?? Ok I heard otherwise, I was at the Univ of Pitt when the steal industry went South and the narrative we heard was American cars sucked. That pretty much is still a major preconceptions.

I don't have a lot of background in this topic so thanks for the explanation.

Your source of information was likely the culprit. Many major American universities are so anti American its pathetic.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Sorry, but I say crap to this. It would certainly have been a different company than it is today, and if Walk took over in 2019 he probably would have had a hard time running today's company. But he always kept the doors open, always managed the business side of things (or trusted people like his brother to manage them), and always provided great entertainment and great value.

Absolutely. Walt respected the park guests and always tried to give them their money's worth. Disneyland was thriving when he died. To say he would have "bankrupted" the park is nonsense. His desire for improvement and innovation is what gave us the Matterhorn, the Haunted Mansion, etc. I bet if he were alive today, Disneyland AND WDW would surpass Tokyo Disneyland in beauty and invention. No way he'd let offshore parks surpass the U.S. ones like Iger has done.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I will say that the lodging is a huge part of my reasoning to skip Disney. Growing up I was an “off property” kid , my wife... “on property”. She converted me. I simply love the experience of the BC or any of the premium hotels where I can walk to a park. But damn, 400 a night is a tough pill to swallow. I suppose later in life I will appreciate it more but at 34 Disney for me is get up at 6, shower, breakfast and in the park until it closes. I don’t really take advantage of the hotel amenities the way I should.

There are way better offsite offerings for less money. It's Time for you to convert your wife.

 

[networkpro]

Absolutely. Walt respected the park guests and always tried to give them their money's worth. Disneyland was thriving when he died. To say he would have "bankrupted" the park is nonsense. His desire for improvement and innovation is what gave us the Matterhorn, the Haunted Mansion, etc. I bet if he were alive today, Disneyland AND WDW would surpass Tokyo Disneyland in beauty and invention. No way he'd let offshore parks surpass the U.S. ones like Iger has done.

No one lives forever. Eisner, Wells, and Katzenburger kept Disney from being acquired in the early 80's as the company was floundering.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

My wife and I are really angry about this last round of increases as out-of-state AP holders.

We absolutely understand the need to control the crowds and understand that the simplest way to do that is by price increases. (What they really need is more capacity and that can only be done through a 5th gate and creating new lands with more than two rides...)

However, they are disproportionately going after their most loyal fans who are in fact their highest spenders. Think about it... Unlike the Florida residents who can pop in anytime they choose, those of us who come from out-of-state have to spend a significant amount of money just to get there. Once there we typically stay on property, book table and signature dining, buy lots of pins & merchandise. We don't get 90% of the AP perks such as the special merchandise.

If this were truly about crowd control, then the Florida AP rates would be just as high. But no, this is about maximising revenue by going after their biggest fans.

So what are we going to do? Yeah, we'll keep going & keep getting the AP (probably just one for the discounts). However, odds are pretty low we're going to stay on property, and we're definitely not buying the stupid lightsabers we had planned on. In fact going forward the more they raise the less we buy. The result is a loss to Disney and we don't pay a dime more.

The real problem, however, with this jacked up price increase is they've turned loyal fans into bitter fans who are unlikely to sing the praises of Disney to their friends and colleagues.

"We're angry! What are we going to do? Keep going! Renew our passes!"

Disney fans in a nutshell.

And people wonder why prices keep going up.

 

[Raineman]

There are quite a few people on this thread that are decrying the price increases and how it has affected them personally and how they think it should affect others. Why the concern for other visitors and their ability to be able to pay for WDW vacations, other than just taking an opportunity to rail on Disney because of how they affected you and how it will affect you? TBH, and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but I don't care if any other family can afford a WDW vacation, or whether or not they decide to keep visiting or stop going. I feel that I am still getting value for my money at WDW, and I can afford a WDW vacation every 2 years. If any of this changes, I will not visit, and I will move on, all while cherishing the memories that I have from my trips in the past. For the first 40 years of my life, I went to WDW once for 3 days-it wasn't that I didn't want to go the rest of that time, but either my parents or myself couldn't afford it, so I accepted it, and moved on. Once I reached a point in my life where I could afford it, then I started visiting on a somewhat regular basis. If I was still at a point now where I couldn't afford a WDW trip, then I would accept the fact, and look elsewhere for my leisure time. This whole mindset of "I need to have my WDW vacations, but I can't afford it any more, so Disney should make it so I can fulfill my needs by paying what I think is fair" is ridiculous. Air, food, water are needs-a visit to a theme park is not, nor never will be.

 

[King Capybara 77]

There are quite a few people on this thread that are decrying the price increases and how it has affected them personally and how they think it should affect others. Why the concern for other visitors and their ability to be able to pay for WDW vacations, other than just taking an opportunity to rail on Disney because of how they affected you and how it will affect you? TBH, and I'm not trying to sound like a jerk here, but I don't care if any other family can afford a WDW vacation, or whether or not they decide to keep visiting or stop going. I feel that I am still getting value for my money at WDW, and I can afford a WDW vacation every 2 years. If any of this changes, I will not visit, and I will move on, all while cherishing the memories that I have from my trips in the past. For the first 40 years of my life, I went to WDW once for 3 days-it wasn't that I didn't want to go the rest of that time, but either my parents or myself couldn't afford it, so I accepted it, and moved on. Once I reached a point in my life where I could afford it, then I started visiting on a somewhat regular basis. If I was still at a point now where I couldn't afford a WDW trip, then I would accept the fact, and look elsewhere for my leisure time. This whole mindset of "I need to have my WDW vacations, but I can't afford it any more, so Disney should make it so I can fulfill my needs by paying what I think is fair" is ridiculous. Air, food, water are needs-a visit to a theme park is not, nor never will be.

 

[flynnibus]

They are not losing customers, they are losing repeat business

No, that’s exactly what it means. Customers are ones with history. Future buyers are not yet customers... they are potential customers.

Disney is a business highly focused on repeat business and connection with their customer. It’s been that way for generations. It is not some auto parts brand that people lookup the best item... buy.. and forget about until the next time their car breaks down. Disney is a lifestyle brand, and aims to engage its customers on multiple points.

 

[Kingtut]

This is simply not true - - - The American car industry was riding at an all time high for customer satisfaction and awards from top automotive publishers. The reason why they went bankrupt were a few, their assembly workers and employees were getting paid too much, compared to the minimal mark ups on their cars. One f-150 was sold in North America every 15 seconds , averaging, in the same year that they claimed bankruptcy.
Their image was almost at the top of their game at their decline.

I didn't think Ford ever went bankrupt. Am I wrong?

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

A fifth gate will not reduce the crowds at the Magic Kingdom and it is not going to happen. Adding a third ride in Star Wars Land would help a little, but the main draw is the land itself and the small experiences, same as Harry Potter at Universal. Building out Epcot, Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom as they are currently (or have been recently) will help draw people away from Magic Kingdom. But a fifth gate will not make a difference to crowds, in fact it could make it worse if more people decide to vacation to WDW to see the new offering.

From a guest perspective, more capacity in the existing parks is absolutely needed. I was bored at Disney Studios earlier this year, looking for things to do while I waited for my evening Slinky Dog Fastpass. So much space in Florida, and so few offerings in that park, and they still closed The Great Movie Ride rather than find another spot to build the new Mickey Mouse attraction.

Likewise at Epcot. Why can't they build Guardians in unused space, and revamp Universe of Energy rather than close it? That was a lengthy & high capacity ride, that was a relaxing (especially on busy days), and the kind of experience Disney doesn't build anymore. Something to balance out the thrill rides that are over in five minutes.

However, it's not in Disney's best interest. They want crowds and capacity to be at that sweet spot where you need to spend a full day in any given park to experience it all. They want four days to be the minimum vacation stay. There's a reason you can only book advance Fastpasses for one park per day, and I imagine part of it is so people can't do all of the major attractions in one day.

Disney wants to maintain the illusion that WDW is bigger and needs more time to experience than Disneyland does (which has roughly the same number of attractions as WDW, packed into one convenient space where you can do it all in two or three days.

 

[Kingtut]

Really?? Ok I heard otherwise, I was at the Univ of Pitt when the steal industry went South and the narrative we heard was American cars sucked. That pretty much is still a major preconceptions.

I don't have a lot of background in this topic so thanks for the explanation.

But not understanding how union salaries would effect customer loyalty,. Why did people stop buying American cars??

being from the 'Burgh I don't think the steel industry went south so much as it was simply decimated by cheaper foreign steel and while they had their union issues - the ones affecting the automakers in the 70's/80's had direct effects on customer satisfaction. The auto makers union employees were building products that went to end users. Steelworkers products usually go to some manufacturer/fabricator to make a product that gets sold/used by end users.

 

[flynnibus]

To Mr Flynninbus' thesis, once you've paid and no longer have a contractual obligation you're a former customer.

And anyone with any business sense at all should know that loyal repeat customers are what you want. To dismiss them as history and somehow less significant because it’s in the past is not obtuse... it’s moronic.

New customers are more expensive to market to, take more effort to close, are more likely to cross shop and be price sensitive, and generally be more likely to buy elsewhere. Businesses nurture customer relationships to counter these very basic principles in marketing and sales... new customers cost more to land.

Why on earth do you think all these businesses offer promotions for referrals and sign ups? Because marketing and closing deals is expensive. Repeats are much cheaper because you know more about them , how to find them, and can use history to shape your offers.

Bird in hand... it’s why Disney offers those “book before you leave..” offers etc.

Yes there is a point when you must let a customer go when their needs or abilities don’t align with your business objectives. But no one in their right mind simply writes off customers as soon as they are out the door because there are more fish in the sea...

 

[mdcpr]

No, that’s exactly what it means. Customers are ones with history. Future buyers are not yet customers... they are potential customers.

Disney is a business highly focused on repeat business and connection with their customer. It’s been that way for generations. It is not some auto parts brand that people lookup the best item... buy.. and forget about until the next time their car breaks down. Disney is a lifestyle brand, and aims to engage its customers on multiple points.

But maybe they no longer want to be a lifestyle brand. I don't know the demographics of this group, but I doubt it is filled with millennials whose priorities and tastes are different. My family is a perfect example, I was the one who brought up a Disney vacation because they could care less about it. Now, they did want to go to Universal Studios because of all things Harry Potter, but we couldn't because my youngest is too short to ride most rides.

Disney is changing their rates, packages and image because what worked for many generations will be losing steam soon. I know a lot of people who used to do yearly WDW vacations. They no longer do them because they can't stand the crowds and 'the tackiness of it all.' (their words, not mine.) On the other hand, these are the same people that might do a Disney cruise.

The parks as they are will be forced to change. New customers would be people like me taking their family for the first time (I've been there 4 times before family), or international guests that want to do this at least once.

 

[flynnibus]

Why the concern for other visitors and their ability to be able to pay for WDW vacations, other than just taking an opportunity to rail on Disney because of how they affected you and how it will affect you?

Because people are using their situations as real world examples... not saying Disney needs to accommodate them individually.

People are calling their scenarios out as typical... not as individuals to be accommodated.