Raineman
Well-Known Member
Not offended at all, unless you are talking about the people getting all fired up about the whole "priced out" thing.
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Disney is going to price us out of the Kingdom..
- Thread starter bjlc57
- Start date
I have to agree some and want to chime in on a real interaction I had with one of those MBA's who think they can run everything.
Having dinner with a customer's team at a restaurant at the top of the US Steel Building in Pittsburgh - this MBA was ranting on the quality of US workers and how it had crippled the US auto industry. When I couldn't take it anymore I had to speak up and point out the fact that ( at that time) US automakers had closed 11 manufacturing facilities and during that time foreign auto makers had built 11 new manufacturing facilities ( using US workers) so the real problem must be management. AND GM had just launched an ambitious improvement program for ( I think) $4B ( in those days that was a lot of money) which was more than it would have taken to buy both Toyota and Datsun ( Nissan ) so why wouldn't doing that be better - you eliminate competition, acquire assets, and buy your way into a new market? He was quiet after that and later my boss chewed me out for "slapping down" a customer. I knew better but I couldn't take it anymore ( and I was young)
MBA's think they can fix anything ( except the problems they cause)
Raineman
Well-Known Member
Typical, sure, but a gross overreaction and very little perspective are in play here too. It's hard to judge the tone of each post sometimes, but the level of anger that is being displayed over pricing of theme park vacations is commiserate with being angry over rising food, gas, rent, etc. costs, when it shouldn't even be close.
flynnibus
Premium Member
This is true... Disney doesn’t want you just running from attraction to attraction and being “done” prematurely. There is a pace that they want to maintain... that ensures you are occupied, entertained, and doing things like spending money as well. It’s a balancing act of providing enough venues for entertainment and keeping them full to pace you.
But it is a balancing act... Disney doesn’t want all rides at 5mins.... but they also don’t want all rides at 90mins either. Customer sentiment and satisfaction is a huge test point in managing that balance. That’s why disney tracked the magic “number of rides in a day” as a sample of what kind of throughput guests were getting... knowing there is a correlation between that and customer perception to crowds.
Customers subliminally compute if an investment is worth the reward... and that’s why they’ll willingly wait an hour for something... and complain about an hour wait for something else.
Disney very much wants to pace your consumption... for a multitude of reasons. The big one as you mention is length of stay. Keeping a guest on property longer pays out in a multitude of ways as Disney will ultimately get more of the guests available spend in doing so.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Then they wouldn’t have bought marvel to balance out their princess image and lack of offers for boys. They wouldn’t be so focused on synergy between the divisions, and they wouldn’t be so heavil vested in brands and products aimed at toddlers. Disney is a conglomerate now to strengthen their ability to dominate entertainment from childhood through adulthood. Disney is still the brand recognition model nearly everyone else would kill for.
Disney marketing of the parks has focused on bring your kids for their lifetime experience more than ever. They’ve basically dropped the mass media marketing of Disney as an adult destination or resort getaway.
Trends like Disney bounding... and social media engagement are all about hooking up people are a lifestyle and not just a vacation spot.
flynnibus
Premium Member
How many people spend hours a week on forums about gas or food? The reason you see the passion is because Disney is not just a rando vacation spot for many many people.
flynnibus
Premium Member
False
flynnibus
Premium Member
Not sure where you’ve come up with this perception.
Did you take note of the style of accommodations Uni has built for the last 3+ properties?
Uni has been aggressive in charging more (verse shadowing Disney) and has been marketing heavily based on their successes with HP... but their focus has been projecting an action filled fun... not some high brow setup
flynnibus
Premium Member
Yes but these are separate ideas... not one to counter the other. It’s not an “either or”.
Attrition happens no matter how loyal your customers are... so you have to always be gaining new blood as well. Same thing with staff/employees too... that doesn’t somehow make employee retention less relevant.
The people that want growth forever will also adovacate the importance of new customers... because You make bigger chunks when your collection starts at zero verse incremental increases on existing customers.
TL DR - even if 5:1 differs... or attracting new customers is important, it does not counter or negate the significance or cost of repeat customers verse new
NickMaio
Well-Known Member
https://www.thebalance.com/auto-industry-bailout-gm-ford-chrysler-3305670
Oh ya - - they were part of the BIG 3 bailout.
Ford received 5.9 billion tax dollars.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Ford did their huge restructuring before the others.. so they were not as in bad of shape when the recession hit.. so their aid was less and they didn’t have to go into a receivership like the others. They just timed it better
NickMaio
Well-Known Member
I really do not get the logic that a 5th gate will not reduce crowds??????????????????
A WHOLE NEW theme park is created - - - giving space and options to the already clogged parks?
Why would a 5th gate not reduce crowds ????????????????
With the current price increases - - many families that went 5 years ago are being priced out. -- a 5th gate will not spike attendance enough to make a difference?
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-price-increase-20180212-story.html
http://blog.ownerdirect.com/inspiring-destinations/disney-world-ticket-prices-compared/
Great overview of tix prices......
A WHOLE NEW theme park is created - - - giving space and options to the already clogged parks?
Why would a 5th gate not reduce crowds ????????????????
With the current price increases - - many families that went 5 years ago are being priced out. -- a 5th gate will not spike attendance enough to make a difference?
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-price-increase-20180212-story.html
http://blog.ownerdirect.com/inspiring-destinations/disney-world-ticket-prices-compared/
Great overview of tix prices......
Raineman
Well-Known Member
I’m good with passion-being passionate about something is important. Sometimes, though, passion can lead to overreaction and emotions far more negative than passion. If all of the people passionate about WDW extend that same passion to caring about governmental and societal issues, and don’t reserve their passion for something that is, honestly, in the grand scheme of things, fairly trivial, and temper that passion with reason and logic, then I think some discussions on here would be more civil, productive and enjoyable, IMO.
disneyflush
Well-Known Member
My situation from our vacation 3 weeks ago at WDW isn't that they are going to price me out (well I guess they could), its that they are going to price the experience out.
The experience as a whole is worth X. Based on my recent trip I can't say X is worth what they are charging any longer so I won't be taking my family back. I also see diminishing returns on each subsequent ride of the same exact attractions. The 10th time or 20th time I ride them does not provide a different or better ride experience. The crowds determined much of the vacation and didn't allow much flexibility or spontaneity. A lot of people disagree with me as the crowds will attest.
My son is 9. It was his first visit since he was about 2 years old. He had no memory of the place. He rode FOP (thought it was great) before Soarin for the first time. He thought Soarin was just ok in comparison. Most of the people on here rode Soarin first and it was amazing. Then FOP came and it was absolutely amazing. We've seen the development of fairly simple classic-type rides turn into the newest things over time and its been a fun journey. If you are going this year (my son for example) with zero context behind the evolution of the parks and if you start with the big stuff right away then the step downs are pretty severe. My kids wanted speed, drops, and upside down moments and thrills. Tower of Terror was great but its working at 50% capacity and the standby is 2 hours. RnR is great in a vacuum but it doesn't have a huge drop or go upside down. Its fairly tame by non-Disney standards. FoP is amazing but also makes most of the other rides look bad in comparison.
I tried to explain before we went that 'Disney isn't really like that, its not a big thrills type of place, its pretty muted at the top end' but they didn't get it. Epcot bored them to tears. Its my favorite park. The generations are different. My kids might feel differently a decade down the road but they won't think of the place the same way I do or did. I haven't locked them into trips every year with a timeshare purchase so there is no pressure to like it. If it was more affordable I might try again to take them back with a different plan but, again, why would I push my family so hard to find 'magic' there, or change their minds, when Disney is so ruthless about maximum dollar extraction while we visit. I've been on these forums since 2007 so I'm not a 'hater' or anything, I love WDW. They've just pushed the experience cost way past the point where its feasible to 'kinda like it' and still do regular visits. My 2 cents.
The experience as a whole is worth X. Based on my recent trip I can't say X is worth what they are charging any longer so I won't be taking my family back. I also see diminishing returns on each subsequent ride of the same exact attractions. The 10th time or 20th time I ride them does not provide a different or better ride experience. The crowds determined much of the vacation and didn't allow much flexibility or spontaneity. A lot of people disagree with me as the crowds will attest.
My son is 9. It was his first visit since he was about 2 years old. He had no memory of the place. He rode FOP (thought it was great) before Soarin for the first time. He thought Soarin was just ok in comparison. Most of the people on here rode Soarin first and it was amazing. Then FOP came and it was absolutely amazing. We've seen the development of fairly simple classic-type rides turn into the newest things over time and its been a fun journey. If you are going this year (my son for example) with zero context behind the evolution of the parks and if you start with the big stuff right away then the step downs are pretty severe. My kids wanted speed, drops, and upside down moments and thrills. Tower of Terror was great but its working at 50% capacity and the standby is 2 hours. RnR is great in a vacuum but it doesn't have a huge drop or go upside down. Its fairly tame by non-Disney standards. FoP is amazing but also makes most of the other rides look bad in comparison.
I tried to explain before we went that 'Disney isn't really like that, its not a big thrills type of place, its pretty muted at the top end' but they didn't get it. Epcot bored them to tears. Its my favorite park. The generations are different. My kids might feel differently a decade down the road but they won't think of the place the same way I do or did. I haven't locked them into trips every year with a timeshare purchase so there is no pressure to like it. If it was more affordable I might try again to take them back with a different plan but, again, why would I push my family so hard to find 'magic' there, or change their minds, when Disney is so ruthless about maximum dollar extraction while we visit. I've been on these forums since 2007 so I'm not a 'hater' or anything, I love WDW. They've just pushed the experience cost way past the point where its feasible to 'kinda like it' and still do regular visits. My 2 cents.
LaughingGravy
Well-Known Member
I would agree with you, but as I see it, that's not the case.
They bought all that land in Florida for a reason, and instead they have not only sold parts of it, they have decided to make quarterly shareholder profits be the main motivator for every single thing.
They could have added lots of things and also kept things over the years to allow for the capacity increase as time has gone on and the internet changing things.
Instead, they never put serious money into needed infrastructure (until recently with the gondolas), they never expanded the monorail past the Epcot run, they could have had their own airport, they went with smelly buses, they cut back on alligator and water maintenance in general to the point that all that water is unswimmable, when it used to be a large part of the vacation destination.
They have made a lot of bad decisions, mostly for short term gain.
Tiki Room under new management comes to mind.
Spinner carpet ride where it has no business being.
They added thousands of hotel rooms and DVC without having places for all of those people to go.
They could have added parks in other states, or (gasp) just expanded into land they already owned and modified, still maintaining natural preserve space.
If there is VALUE, people will typically pay it.
Instead, they tore down attractions with no substitutes until years later.
And the substitutes?
Test Track over World of Motion? Gee...65mph in a seatbelted car. Wow, never did that before.
Mission Space over Horizons?
Wonders of Life- How many years now gone?
Odyssey Restaurant space?
Journey into Imagination? I can't even begin.
How long did 20K leagues sit vacant with a pooh play place as the only substitute, and how many years did it take just to get the play place? Just that.
Mr Toad's Wild Ride, Snow White's Scary Adventures...dark rides inspired by classic cartoons that are still playing without issue in California.
Soarin---Maybe show both movies , the CA original and the new one, in each theater? Imagine that? Give me a reason to stand in another line, and I might do it.
Avatar? Really?
Animal Kingdom--It's OK now, but ...it's a zoo.
Hollywood Studios has been a 1/2 day park for ages, and then when Toy Story Land gets "added", that's it? There is little reason to go to that park now.
Decades of no issues happening with the monorails and then somebody got killed. I would love to see the numbers on that, probably similar to alligator maintenance.
I can imagine it.."We're spending how much in people/resources on this? Send down the line that costs need to be cut by x%. We need to increase the shareholder profits." Or what? The company will tank? I don't think so.
Cool Park specific merchandise slowly comes back, but in little bursts, then goes away. ( i.e. Old Epcot)
I was at World of Disney on a last business trip, actually prepared to spend $50-$80, considering I could not justify going into the park for one day with so many things closed/under refurbishment.
There wasn't one thing that appealed to me.
They even tore down the awesome sculptures in the ceilings of that store. They were beautiful. Now just gone. I bet some of them are sitting in the recreation rooms in the giant mansions of a few shareholders.
10 years ago, I bought a sweatshirt that matched another we had in thickness. It was a nice Jack Skellington one.
DW and I have matching sweatshirts. One has a Disneyland inner tag. The other has a Disney World inner tag.
Not "Disney" or "Disney Parks". Specific. It adds value to them, and we happily paid.
Have you checked the thickness of anything they call a sweatshirt or t-shirt lately?
What about what they have the nerve to call a beach towel?
Upcharge events and closing the parks early? Yeah. No.
Scheduling out rides and meals months in advance or they are not available? Yeah, no.
Yeah, I'm bitter, but what used to be a really nice place is a shadow of what it used to be or should be.
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John park hopper
Well-Known Member
Bravo could not have said it better
LaughingGravy
Well-Known Member
flynnibus
Premium Member
The statement that says "goal must be..." as it's the only acceptable path and singular goal.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
it might not be the only acceptable path in theory but it's the goal that this current management has decided to stalk with laser like precision.
unless you really believe in fairy tales and think that all of a sudden the company is going to do a complete 180 and change their style??
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networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Aside from railing at the wind about the injustice of the price hikes, what will you really do about it aside from not going or going there less¿ There's a great big real world out there with lower prices to be had, why bother unless you're financially invested in the Disney company ¿