Disney is going to price us out of the Kingdom..

[flynnibus]

The vicious cycle they’ve entered means that their only two options are operational cuts and/or price increases. All of which is unsustainable.

Yup.. hence 'scorched earth' Just pointing at short term gains as 'success' is not how you run a generational company and brand. But the MBAs are only coin operated.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Or Scorched Earth... Your praise somehow turns a blind eye to sustainability. Amazing that you haven't been concerned by the fact their attendance and prices are soarin... yet their revenues and profits are not at the same pace. When 2+2+2 = 4... there should be an eye brow raised.

but that's actually a part of capitalism, the ones that are not sustainable get eaten alive. If the current financial strategy is not sustainable then they will either correct course or they will go under.

It's supposed to do that. there is no law in nature that say "Disney shalt never stop".

If disney is pricing folks out then folks can't go. If it's their base that supports the parks then a few scenarios will play out.they will fire leadership (could be a good thing), they can sell (again could be a great thing), they will offer boatloads of discounts or they can be brought up by someone else.

I don't think folks are turning a blind eye at all, well see whether or not, these latest moves will put a nail in the coffin or not. personally lol if I had a dollar for every time some one said Disney was doomed, I could call Golden oaks my retirement home.

so I'll end by just saying I'm not worried about the next 10 years and sorry for being insensitive but since I'll be most likely old or dead by the time my grandkids are old enough to start taking their familys I'm not worrying whether or not it's around for that generation.

 

[flynnibus]

but that's actually a part of capitalism, the ones that are not sustainable get eaten alive. If the current financial strategy is not sustainable then they will either correct course or they will go under.

You're missing the point of the 'scorched earth' reference. Simply pointing to results and saying "see, it works!" is not the whole picture. Scorched Earth refers to extracting everything out of it to the point of damaging it. Yes, you're getting results now, but is it a process that is extracting so much, you leave just a corpse behind? And hence, it's not renewable, sustainable, or a healthy cycle.

Simply saying "well then they'll change or die" is reactionary thinking instead of actual leadership. Once you burn the house down, you don't simply say "sorry, rents cheaper now.. come on back in..." -- The damage is done. Every business knows its far harder to bring a customer back than to keep one. So you don't wait until everything comes crashing down before you adapt.

So the point of all this is.. don't simply look at your recent performance numbers as the whole picture of what the strategy means. (and that's what I mean turning a blind eye too... Mr Wharton and others simply point to the recent financials and attendance as all they need to know to say this model works and is perfectly fine. I'm saying the model isn't fine...

And you certainly can't say say "sorry, u-turn..." after you've put yourself in the corner or ran right into the wall. Customer sentiment is too brittle for that.

 

[eliza61nyc]

You're missing the point of the 'scorched earth' reference. Simply pointing to results and saying "see, it works!" is not the whole picture. Scorched Earth refers to extracting everything out of it to the point of damaging it. Yes, you're getting results now, but is it a process that is extracting so much, you leave just a corpse behind? And hence, it's not renewable, sustainable, or a healthy cycle.

Simply saying "well then they'll change or die" is reactionary thinking instead of actual leadership. Once you burn the house down, you don't simply say "sorry, rents cheaper now.. come on back in..." -- The damage is done. Every business knows its far harder to bring a customer back than to keep one. So you don't wait until everything comes crashing down before you adapt.

So the point of all this is.. don't simply look at your recent performance numbers as the whole picture of what the strategy means. (and that's what I mean turning a blind eye too... Mr Wharton and others simply point to the recent financials and attendance as all they need to know to say this model works and is perfectly fine. I'm saying the model isn't fine...

And you certainly can't say say "sorry, u-turn..." after you've put yourself in the corner or ran right into the wall. Customer sentiment is too brittle for that.

Ok so are you saying Disney is not bringing in new customers??? You're right I did miss the point. I thought you meant that this current managing is unsustainable?? I took that to mean that wdw will collapse. So I'm not sure I'm getting your reference.

Listen if the current model is not fine as you say, it is simple by the metrics we use to measure success it is extremely simple. Now I'm not talking about all the fuzzy warm words folks use here but the simple purpose of putting bodies in the park. That is leadership's job

Ok so if current course is unsustainable what do you think will happen?. Easy question

 

[flynnibus]

Ok so are you saying Disney is not bringing in new customers???

Where did I say that?

The only thing I've said about attendance in other posts is that attendance gains do not mean 'across the board' gains. Disney has been gaining more clicks by filling out the calendar. If those are new or return customers is hard for me to say... but since revenues are not gaining at the same pace as attendance+price boosts.. that says to me alot of those attendance gains aren't necessarily full paying new customers. They could be discounted, they could be APs, etc.. you can't tell really. The point was simply that a 5% boost in attendance is a cumulative number.. not a peanut butter spread across all times.

What made Disney the behemoth it is today is not it's ability to attract new customers... but the loyalty it built with its customers so it created brand champions that advocated and brought generation after generation into the fold. The company built a product perception that was unmatched and sold customers old and new. It didn't just get repeat business, it built champions that drew in other customers as well.

That kind of brand loyalty is pure gold.. and it's the kind of 'killing the golden goose' situation that Disney risks when they chase the breaking point in the interest of extracting every last dollar the can until they break people. The harder someone loves something... the uglier the breakup usually is when it finally happens.

I thought you meant that this current managing is unsustainable?? I took that to mean that wdw will collapse

'collapse' is hyperbolic. Doing damage that will cost them is more like it.

Listen if the current model is not fine as you say, it is simple by the metrics we use to measure success it is extremely simple

No it's not that simply when you are in it for the long haul. If your job is to stuff the park for the next three years and beyond that you say "its someone elses problem" then yes, you can look at the sliding window and ignore everything else. But that's not how companies manage to run for decades and be able to manage multiple transitions and disruptions. The only looking at your feet leadership model means you will eventually miss the step, trip, and fall on your face.

Ok so if current course is unsustainable what do you think will happen?. Easy question

Disney will kill the golden goose... It will continue to attract people, but at a far greater cost, and people that will be far less loyal to the brand. That means they spent less on lifestyle offshoots, they make less frequent trips, it costs more to attract them.

The next result is Disney will get into a cycle of having to spend more and more to get the same number of guests, and the return per guest will continue to trend below the rate of escalating prices. They will break the generational cycle and the next generation will spend less of their time+money with Disney parks than their parents did.

 

[MAGICFLOP]

I like this tread, people's thinking is interestingly presented. We can't talk about price increases without mentioning Funding.

OK lets break down funding for vacations...
when I was a early teen first time visitor to WDW MK in 1977, I had never in my life seen so much cash in my mothers hands, why, we were not rich and my Mother threw money down like I never seen before. She planned the trip more than a year out and opened a vacation club account at her bank and put down a weekly sum to generate the money needed.

Nowadays people just slap it on the card and pay it off over the next several months or pay minimum payment until WDW announces the 8th gate.

Sounds to me like Next several months is being extended to the next 12 months..

 

[JusticeDisney]

My husband and I are in the same situation as you! We have shifted our focus to Universal and are looking forward to going to Universal, Sea world, and the Kennedy Space Center. There's a whole big world out there. We love Disney, but are sick of all the money grabs. Weve discussed the pros and cons of WDW vs Universal for a trip this next year. Universal is winning out at this time. We love the flexibility at Universal, just being able to walk onto rides when we want and to do them over and over, if we want. Nothing planned. It's relaxing and eye opening after the major planning we do with Disney. So, maybe Universal will WOW you too

Universal is great and is a must-do for us on every trip we take to WDW. However, it simply does not compare to WDW in terms of an overall vacation, at least IMHO. Maybe the parks themselves do, but not the overall experience of being there. Also, you should not count on just walking onto rides and doing them over and over. That’s not the reality at Universal. There will be waiting there just like there will be at practically every other major theme park.

 

[NickMaio]

but that's actually a part of capitalism, the ones that are not sustainable get eaten alive. If the current financial strategy is not sustainable then they will either correct course or they will go under.

It's supposed to do that. there is no law in nature that say "Disney shalt never stop".

If disney is pricing folks out then folks can't go. If it's their base that supports the parks then a few scenarios will play out.they will fire leadership (could be a good thing), they can sell (again could be a great thing), they will offer boatloads of discounts or they can be brought up by someone else.

I don't think folks are turning a blind eye at all, well see whether or not, these latest moves will put a nail in the coffin or not. personally lol if I had a dollar for every time some one said Disney was doomed, I could call Golden oaks my retirement home.

so I'll end by just saying I'm not worried about the next 10 years and sorry for being insensitive but since I'll be most likely old or dead by the time my grandkids are old enough to start taking their familys I'm not worrying whether or not it's around for that generation.

Except the banking industry and american automotive industry.......they go under then get Federal bail out money and send their top executives on all expense paid trips to the Caribbean for weeks on end.

WDW may or may not reap what they are currently sowing.....time will tell.

If something happends to WDW I dont think they will be lucky enough to get tax payer dollars.........

 

[RustySpork]

Universal is great and is a must-do for us on every trip we take to WDW. However, it simply does not compare to WDW in terms of an overall vacation, at least IMHO. Maybe the parks themselves do, but not the overall experience of being there. Also, you should not count on just walking onto rides and doing them over and over. That’s not the reality at Universal. There will be waiting there just like there will be at practically every other major theme park.

That depends largely on where you stay. If you stay at Hard Rock Hotel, Royal Pacific, or Portofino Bay, the experience can be as good as or possibly a lot better than staying on property at WDW.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Except the banking industry and american automotive industry.......they go under then get Federal bail out money and send their top executives on all expense paid trips to the Caribbean for weeks on end.

WDW may or may not reap what they are currently sowing.....time will tell.

If something happends to WDW I dont think they will be lucky enough to get tax payer dollars.........

Hey you get no argument from me on that I didn't agree with the bailouts at all but I had no control over that. A Disney vacation I have total control over.

 

[NickMaio]

Hey you get no argument from me on that I didn't agree with the bailouts at all but I had no control over that. A Disney vacation I have total control over.

It was a little commentary that the American free market economy is not really a free market at all.
I really did not agree that bailout either....

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

Universal is great and is a must-do for us on every trip we take to WDW. However, it simply does not compare to WDW in terms of an overall vacation, at least IMHO. Maybe the parks themselves do, but not the overall experience of being there. Also, you should not count on just walking onto rides and doing them over and over. That’s not the reality at Universal. There will be waiting there just like there will be at practically every other major theme park.

We were able to just walk on rides over and over again, esp MIB, our favorite after WWHP. BUT we had express passes for staying at RPR, which made it easier. I know you can't just count on walk ons anywhere. The minions and Shrek both had waiting lines for EP, but it went quickly within 5 minutes. However, the regular lines were over an hour. I wouldn't do Universal without EP, even at "slow" times.
I agree that Universal is a different kind of vacation than WDW, but that makes both unique, IMO. I still have love for Disney, but get frustrated with the current situation, IE: overcrowding, broken down and poorly cared for attractions, money grabs for things that were always free before, cutting the times in the parks for regular paying guests for the many paid for events. The list goes on. But there is a nostalgia there that lures us back. It is just getting harder and harder to deal with those things. So, Universal is a breath of fresh air in the park world

 

[JusticeDisney]

We were able to just walk on rides over and over again, esp MIB, our favorite after WWHP. BUT we had express passes for staying at RPR, which made it easier. I know you can't just count on walk ons anywhere. The minions and Shrek both had waiting lines for EP, but it went quickly within 5 minutes. However, the regular lines were over an hour. I wouldn't do Universal without EP, even at "slow" times.
I agree that Universal is a different kind of vacation than WDW, but that makes both unique, IMO. I still have love for Disney, but get frustrated with the current situation, IE: overcrowding, broken down and poorly cared for attractions, money grabs for things that were always free before, cutting the times in the parks for regular paying guests for the many paid for events. The list goes on. But there is a nostalgia there that lures us back. It is just getting harder and harder to deal with those things. So, Universal is a breath of fresh air in the park world

Great post, very well said!

 

[SteveBrickNJ]

We were able to just walk on rides over and over again, esp MIB, our favorite after WWHP. BUT we had express passes for staying at RPR, which made it easier. I know you can't just count on walk ons anywhere. The minions and Shrek both had waiting lines for EP, but it went quickly within 5 minutes. However, the regular lines were over an hour. I wouldn't do Universal without EP, even at "slow" times.
I agree that Universal is a different kind of vacation than WDW, but that makes both unique, IMO. I still have love for Disney, but get frustrated with the current situation, IE: overcrowding, broken down and poorly cared for attractions, money grabs for things that were always free before, cutting the times in the parks for regular paying guests for the many paid for events. The list goes on. But there is a nostalgia there that lures us back. It is just getting harder and harder to deal with those things. So, Universal is a breath of fresh air in the park world

But Universal is very expensive too...isn't it?
What is the current price to see Universal's side by side 2 parks in one day?
(I ask it that way because 8 or 9 years ago that's what we did. Paid a "combo price" and stayed from opening to closing and experienced both Universal Studios parks in one day)

 

[RustySpork]

But Universal is very expensive too...isn't it?
What is the current price to see Universal's side by side 2 parks in one day?
(I ask it that way because 8 or 9 years ago that's what we did. Paid a "combo price" and stayed from opening to closing and experienced both Universal Studios parks in one day)

Two park, One day is $170.00. They're doing a promo right now, 2-Park, 2-Day + 3 Days Free Promotional Ticket for $285.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

But Universal is very expensive too...isn't it?
What is the current price to see Universal's side by side 2 parks in one day?
(I ask it that way because 8 or 9 years ago that's what we did. Paid a "combo price" and stayed from opening to closing and experienced both Universal Studios parks in one day)

Hi Steve: Yes, it's expensive, but so is everything else. I guess you had to decide if the attractions are worth it for you. Disney is expensive too, but we love it. Universal is expensive and we love that style of touring and are big fans of HP, MIB, and the other offerings. I can't remember the exact price, but it is pricey. Especially when you have to buy 2 park tickets if you want to ride the Hogwarts Express between the parks. We bit the bullet and did that the last time, and it was totally worth it. Like I said, we stay at RPR and get EP's included, so that helps with the cost. You can check the Universal site for the current prices, if you want.

 

[SteveBrickNJ]

Hi Steve: Yes, it's expensive, but so is everything else. I guess you had to decide if the attractions are worth it for you. Disney is expensive too, but we love it. Universal is expensive and we love that style of touring and are big fans of HP, MIB, and the other offerings. I can't remember the exact price, but it is pricey. Especially when you have to buy 2 park tickets if you want to ride the Hogwarts Express between the parks. We bit the bullet and did that the last time, and it was totally worth it. Like I said, we stay at RPR and get EP's included, so that helps with the cost. You can check the Universal site for the current prices, if you want.

As you've probably noticed by now, @RustySpork has provided the prices just above.
I don't have a desire to go or learn more. Thank you for your friendly post!
I'm not seeking prices or considering going to Orlando. Actually I just find this thread so very interesting.
I have a friend who was married in the early 90s.
He and his wife had their Honeymoon in Disney and have gone back to Disney every other year since then.
They have never seen any country in Europe.
Never been to Virginia...including the Europe section in Busch Gardens Williamsburg VA
Never been to California
Never been to Niagara Falls or anywhere in Canada
Etc....etc...etc.
Once every 24 months they go to Disney....from age 24 to age 52...Disney again....Disney again...Disney again
*
I think they and people like them are missing out on so many enjoyable experiences.
Yes they "know" they like Disney so they just do what they like.
But gosh.....they MIGHT like some of the places I mentioned too.
After last November's 5th vacation at Disney, my wife and I felt we've had enough.
Now that we see the Disney money grabs....for sure were not going back again.
*
*
So what do you or anyone else feel on this topic of exclusively "Disney again" topic?

 

[flynnibus]

But Universal is very expensive too...isn't it?
What is the current price to see Universal's side by side 2 parks in one day?
(I ask it that way because 8 or 9 years ago that's what we did. Paid a "combo price" and stayed from opening to closing and experienced both Universal Studios parks in one day)

For the longest time uni simply shadowed disney price moves. Stay on their tail, but convienrly slightly less. After Harry Potter they went on the offense and boldly went in front of disney instead of following their moves.

Uni is more per day... but the trend is you don't stay as long. That is what uni is trying to change with volanconnay, ++

 

[SteveBrickNJ]

For the longest time uni simply shadowed disney price moves. Stay on their tail, but convienrly slightly less. After Harry Potter they went on the offense and boldly went in front of disney instead of following their moves.

Uni is more per day... but the trend is you don't stay as long. That is what uni is trying to change with volanconnay, ++

Yup, Universal's two parks are side by side and you can walk from the one to the other. It's easy to get up early and stay there until close and feel like you saw everything.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I agree..we are becoming more and more creative to justify going every year..used to do 8 days then it was 6..now we are doing mon-fri this year off site. The prices are getting out of hand. Universal is out here offering reasonable rates for rooms and has a “buy two days get 3 free” park tickets...meanwhile Disney costs 6 mortgages and a newborn.

That's why I'm looking to stay at Universal and just book Mears Shuttle Service to take me to WDW for a day so that I can experience the new stuff. Seems much more economical to me, plus Universal rocks and I haven't explored all of it yet.