Disney guest chokes girl who was blocking view of fireworks, deputies say

[ford91exploder]

This debate has got me thinking... Is a guest really dumb to expect for example a room with a park view (any park) at what Disney considers an on-site resort? Or to dine with characters? I will agree that some of the advertising borders on false as not all of this information is actually common knowledge. I am not however willing to pin this case to be a part of that problem. Any human choosing to resort to physical violence due to fireworks should take full blame for their actions.

Common knowledge to US and I think that's the key, Not so the average american who does not do their homework. We see a Disney ad and say 'Fat Chance' that's going to happen for my family. The average first timer OTOH DOES expect it to happen.

 

[ford91exploder]

Given that selecting a 'park view' room at resorts is an easily selectable option, and how popular and widespread character dining is, I don't see any reason someone would be disappointed that Disney advertises them.

The IMPRESSION that Disney gives is that on the monorail resorts most of the rooms are 'park view' WE know that's not reality and that if you want a park view room you need to book in advance and be prepared to pay for it.

Let's just say I'd be a LOT gentler on Disney's advertising if they used a Moderate and perhaps Crystal Palace or another high capacity venue and showed rides in a FULL state they could then show CRT. Right now it borders on bait-n-switch for the AVERAGE non-WDWMagic superfan first time guest.

 

[Laketravis]

So the prices are either too low or too high or there's too much planning or the ads are misleading setting up false expectations. Lots of people seem to be blaming Disney at least in part for this type of behavior.

What I see are people responding to several off-topic rants about food prices and long lines and men's body spray and those responses being somehow attributed to "blaming" "evil disney". I see people attributing various conditions and circumstances that could have contributed to this person going off on somebody about blocking their view and being accused of choking them. I don't see anyone claiming that behavior was justified or that her response was understandable but I do see posts claiming that must be the case. I see people saying that crowded conditions or perceived high prices or stress or unreasonable expectations based on marketing could have contributed to the woman's reaction. I see other posts calling those people "foolish" for contributing such speculation and shaming them for "blaming" Disney.

Whether this woman choked a teenager or not we don't know. Whether the teenager egged the woman on and contributed to an escalated situation we don't know. What we do know is that a lot of people go to WDW with very high expectations and can react in an extremely irrational manner if those expectations aren't met. People are simply pointing that out but then being chastised for "blaming evil Disney".

I said I wasn't surprised that this happened. A CM posted that they aren't surprised either and cited seven years of examples of horrible guest behavior. No one is claiming that these acts of aggression aren't solely the fault of the aggressor, what they are doing is expanding the conversation by offering what circumstances or external factors may lead a normally rational person to behave that way.

 

[ford91exploder]

But it isn't! I just went the day after Thanksgiving.. resorts were almost sold out..crowds were very high.. I was able to get several same day or day prior dining reservations. I cancelled a few of my own advance reservations. There was only 2 that I didn't get- Minnie's Holiday Dine, and I actually could have had it, but the time didn't work for me. And - Holiday Wishes Dessert Party.
I scheduled, and cancelled, 1900 PF 4 times during that trip. We ended up wanting to spend more pool time instead.

I booked that trip less than 60 days in advance.. yes it took work, but I got almost everything that I wanted.

People like you and I who KNOW the system can get pretty much whatever we want whenever we want it and this is a given, But it's an an entirely different calculus for a first time WDW guest. And that's the crux of my points.

 

[jakeman]

I'm not talking about NOW im talking about School vacation weeks Memorial Day to Labor Day and Thanksgiving to NYE

Yes i agree during off times that good ADRs and FP are easy to come by even same day ones

But during the seasons i mentioned its still a 180 day dining and 60 day FP routine

It's Easter week. It's Spring Break. It is literally the definition of a School Vacation Week.

It's not off times. It's a 9 at the MK on Touring Plans today and tomorrow. It's an 8 or 7 at the other parks.

 

[Laketravis]

People like you and I who KNOW the system can get pretty much whatever we want whenever we want it and this is a given, But it's an an entirely different calculus for a first time WDW guest. And that's the crux of my points.

Not to mention most people don't spend hours a day on WDW forums planning, asking for advice or for others to critique their plans, reading or writing trip reports, etc...etc...etc.......maybe if the people who do would put themselves in the shoes of a family who simply went on line, booked a trip, read the marketing materials they got in the mail, and showed up - they'd understand. But no, I'm sure that's the family's fault for not planning properly. But wait, planning isn't required...........huh? Okay, maybe their expectations were too high. But where did those expectations come from? "Foolish" family, they "should have known better". It's just "common sense". Hmmm.......

.

 

[ford91exploder]

Not to mention most people don't spend hours a day on WDW forums planning, asking for advice or for others to critique their plans, reading or writing trip reports, etc...etc...etc.......maybe if those people would put themselves in the shoes of a family who simply went on line, booked a trip, read the marketing materials they got in the mail, and showed up - they'd understand. But no, I'm sure that's the family's fault for not planning properly. But wait, planning isn't required...........huh?

.

Correct, Because of what I do IRL I always to try to put myself in the 'naive user/guest' shoes.

 

[rob0519]

For those of us on this forum or even returning quests to WDW we have learned and now know what to expect and not expect from a visit to the resort. We've seen the price and crowd increases year after year.

For the new visitor however, I think Disney's marketing does sort of border on some parts of "misleading" or "bait and switch". They show a small family happily walking through the MK, holding hands with Mickey Mouse, watching fireworks with no one within 3 feet of them and then that perfect shot of the Castle from the resort room. Then that low price for a value resort and one day one park tickets flashes across the screen in white print on a light background so quickly no human alive could read it. Add to that, no mention of reserving your dinners 180 days in advance and your attractions 60 days in advance.

For most people this is a one time vacation and it may have taken them years to save for it or possibly they put it on a credit card to give their kids something special. Then on the website they get slammed with price / value reality, ADRs and Fast Pass+. Then they get to the parks and see nothing is like it is in the commercials and that a hot dog is $11.00.

None of this condones physical altercations, but add this to 90+ degree heat and it's easy to understand how quickly disappointment and frustration can set in.

 

[jakeman]

For those of us on this forum or even returning quests to WDW we have learned and now know what to expect and not expect from a visit to the resort. We've seen the price and crowd increases year after year.

For the new visitor however, I think Disney's marketing does sort of border on some parts of "misleading" or "bait and switch". They show a small family happily walking through the MK, holding hands with Mickey Mouse, watching fireworks with no one within 3 feet of them and then that perfect shot of the Castle from the resort room. Then that low price for a value resort and one day one park tickets flashes across the screen in white print on a light background so quickly no human alive could read it. Add to that, no mention of reserving your dinners 180 days in advance and your attractions 60 days in advance.

For most people this is a one time vacation and it may have taken them years to save for it or possibly they put it on a credit card to give their kids something special. Then on the website they get slammed with price / value reality, ADRs and Fast Pass+. Then they get to the parks and see nothing is like it is in the commercials and that a hot dog is $11.00.

None of this condones physical altercations, but add this to 90+ degree heat and it's easy to understand how quickly disappointment and frustration can set in.

Nope. It's not easy to understand how a person can attempt to physically harm another person over a firework show at a theme park.

It is baffling that people are trying to justify/"understand" this.

The commercial didn't make that lady choke the kid. The $11.00 hot dog didn't do it. The FastPasses didn't do it. The lady make a decision and acted on it. That's the end of it.

This is such a bizarre direction that this thread has taken.

Not directed specifically at you, but is the overwhelming desire to get talking points in so strong that it absolutely must override any sort of logic or personal responsibility?

 

[GrammieBee]

Back to the original intent of this particular forum; there are actually only five FACTS which define the whole situation.
1. The Magic Kingdom does become extremely crowded and most everyone wants to watch the fireworks.
2. Many people do become hot, tired and often "cranky" after a long day in the parks.
3. Some people will react very badly when they are hot, tired, crowded and feel frustrated or insulted.
4. It is never a good idea to put your hands on someone else in anger.
5. Some type of physical contact has to have occurred or the woman in question would not have been arrested.

Yes,the situation probably escalated and the teen girl might have had a few choice comments directed at the woman and might even have flipped her off when she left. That, however, is pure speculation.

 

[jakeman]

Back to the original intent of this particular forum; there are actually only four FACTS which define the whole situation.
1. The Magic Kingdom does become extremely crowded and most everyone wants to watch the fireworks.
2. Many people do become hot, tired and often "cranky" after a long day in the parks.
3. Some people will react very badly when they are hot, tired, crowded and feel frustrated or insulted.
4. Some type of physical contact has to have occurred or the woman in question would not have been arrested.

Yes,the situation probably escalated and the teen girl might have had a few choice comments directed at the woman and might even have flipped her off when she left. That, however, is pure speculation.

No. Those aren't facts that define the situation.

The first 3 are excuses being made for this lady's behavior (if the account is accurate).

The only fact we have is that an arrest was made. Any sort of contributing factor is just speculation and finger pointing.

The lady has a choice in how to react. The choice was her's alone.

 

[21stamps]

Correct, Because of what I do IRL I always to try to put myself in the 'naive user/guest' shoes.

For those of us on this forum or even returning quests to WDW we have learned and now know what to expect and not expect from a visit to the resort. We've seen the price and crowd increases year after year.

For the new visitor however, I think Disney's marketing does sort of border on some parts of "misleading" or "bait and switch". They show a small family happily walking through the MK, holding hands with Mickey Mouse, watching fireworks with no one within 3 feet of them and then that perfect shot of the Castle from the resort room. Then that low price for a value resort and one day one park tickets flashes across the screen in white print on a light background so quickly no human alive could read it. Add to that, no mention of reserving your dinners 180 days in advance and your attractions 60 days in advance.

For most people this is a one time vacation and it may have taken them years to save for it or possibly they put it on a credit card to give their kids something special. Then on the website they get slammed with price / value reality, ADRs and Fast Pass+. Then they get to the parks and see nothing is like it is in the commercials and that a hot dog is $11.00.

None of this condones physical altercations, but add this to 90+ degree heat and it's easy to understand how quickly disappointment and frustration can set in.

Once again, every tourist destination, amusement park, theme park, and water park all do the same thing.

I don't think people are as clueless to high prices and crowds as you guys are making them out to be.

Here's an Atlantis commercial. Not everything shown is available to all guests. And believe it or not, people aren't always cheering and smiling when gambling, the slides have long lines, the food is much more expensive than Disney.

Atlantis is an extremely popular family destination. Are they also Falsely Advertising?
Are first time visitors stressed out and disappointed bc they spent several thousand dollars and their experience isn't exactly like the commercial? Do they think a dolphin swim is included with their overpriced hotel room and obnoxious resort fee?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Then they get to the parks and see nothing is like it is in the commercials and that a hot dog is $11.00.

Where in the heck is a hot dog $11.00??? Casey's with apple slices or fries is only $8.99.

 

[ford91exploder]

Once again, every tourist destination, amusement park, theme park, and water park all do the same thing.

I don't think people are as clueless to high prices and crowds as you guys are making them out to be.

Here's an Atlantis commercial. Not everything shown is available to all guests. And believe it or not, people aren't always cheering and smiling when gambling, the slides have long lines, the food is much more expensive than Disney.

Atlantis is an extremely popular family destination. Are they also Falsely Advertising?
Are first time visitors stressed out and disappointed bc they spent several thousand dollars and their experience isn't exactly like the commercial? Do they think a dolphin swim is included with their overpriced hotel room and obnoxious resort fee?

Yes I would say that the Atlantis ads ALSO border on bait-n-switch based on what I've seen here, I think you give the average consumer too much credit for being a sophisticated consumer of media. Yes advertising is always about creating an impression but media companies especially I think take a bit too much license with that.

 

[Laketravis]

This is such a bizarre direction that this thread has taken.

It really is. The woman has denied the accusation that she choked the teenager yet some have already convicted her of it. The "fact" that she was arrested does not mean she's guilty.

 

[21stamps]

Yes I would say that the Atlantis ads ALSO border on bait-n-switch based on what I've seen here, I think you give the average consumer too much credit for being a sophisticated consumer of media. Yes advertising is always about creating an impression but media companies especially I think take a bit too much license with that.

That is my point. ALL of them do it. Not just Disney. A commercial is designed to show what can be done.. it doesn't mean that every person will be able to do all of it. And it doesn't mean that there will not be negatives while at any of these places.

People claiming that a situation such as the alleged choking are "understandable" bc of the stress of Disney, are either completely blinded by their own personal Disney Issues, or are just lying to themselves. It is excusing an action by saying what could have lead to it.. when really, that woman is the only thing that made her do that. Nothing else.

Any adult should realize that a commercial isn't an exact translation of what their vacation will be. Any adult will realize that crowds can exist. And any adult should realize that sometimes someone can block your view when watching something.

 

[jakeman]

It really is. The woman has denied the accusation that she choked the teenager yet some have already convicted her of it. The "fact" that she was arrested does not mean she's guilty.

You are correct. I've tried to caveat my post (I missed one in the post you quoted) with "if true" as much as possible. Being the parent of a teenager, I would cast a wary eye to their version of the events.

 

[Laketravis]

You are correct. I've tried to caveat my post (I missed one in the post you quoted) with "if true" as much as possible. Being the parent of a teenager, I would cast a wary eye to their version of the events.

LOL! Ain't that the truth. It's entirely possible the teenager was the aggressor, the woman responded verbally, it may have escalated into a shoving match with screaming and when security/LEO showed up the girl's friends corroborated her claim that the woman choked her. The police had no choice at that point but to arrest the woman for "child abuse". They had to.

Acknowledging that is a possibility, I wonder how others would have reacted if they were this woman. Suppose their fireworks view was indeed blocked by a group of teenagers and they (let's assume) politely asked them not to block it. Suppose the person they asked responded with belligerent comments from the group. Let's also assume that our hypothetical guests feet hurt, they are hungry because they missed their ADR and got charged $20, and they are normally a rational adult but their tolerance level right now is down in the weeds.

Would everyone here claim they would simply pack up their things and walk away with a smile? I'm getting the impression that's the case.

 

[RustySpork]

LOL! Ain't that the truth. It's entirely possible the teenager was the aggressor, the woman responded verbally, it may have escalated into a shoving match with screaming and when security/LEO showed up the girl's friends corroborated her claim that the woman choked her. The police had no choice at that point but to arrest the woman for "child abuse". They had to.

Acknowledging that is a possibility, I wonder how others would have reacted if they were this woman. Suppose their fireworks view was indeed blocked by a group of teenagers and they (let's assume) politely asked them not to block it. Suppose the person they asked responded with belligerent comments from the group. Let's also assume that our hypothetical guests feet hurt, they are hungry because they missed their ADR and got charged $20, and they are normally a rational adult but their tolerance level right now is down in the weeds.

Would everyone here claim they would simply pack up their things and walk away with a smile?

It's not like they were the only two parties in that area watching Wishes though. I'm sure there were plenty of witnesses to question before making an arrest.

 

[Laketravis]

It's not like they were the only two parties in that area watching Wishes though. I'm sure there were plenty of witnesses to question before making an arrest.

That's what I thought as well - but the woman's lawyer claims there were other witnesses that weren't interviewed. I suppose it's possible that by the time actual law enforcement arrived the only witnesses left were the woman and the group of teenagers. Someone else commented about the lack of video, which is surprising since it seems everyone at WDW is either already taking pictures with their phones or are ready to. Especially during Wishes. And especially if they see a woman choking a teenager during Wishes.