Disney Genie/Genie+ On Their Way to Anaheim

el_super

Well-Known Member
No. For decades, guests paid one entry price and had full access to rides and attractions without having to pay more.

Yeah and for decades the show quality of said attractions wasn't ever really part of the proposition. It was possible to wait 5 hours in line for Indy when it opened, and still have some effects broken, or like the ice machine, just removed entirely without notice. Even today, you can still wait an hour for Space Mountain and miss out on the music or get walked off Big Thunder. Your only real recourse is to spend MORE time complaining to a Cast Member or haggling at City Hall. It's hardly worth it.

I would equate this more with paying money to see a movie you end up not liking. You still saw the movie.
 

DavidDL

Well-Known Member
If something is broken when you ride, depending on what it was, it is absolutely worth it to bring it up (kindly) to a Cast Member. There are certain show elements we were taught, that were so integral to the experience that if a Guest approaches you afterwards to relay that said element was missing, our training was to put you through the attraction again, ASAP or make it up to you through another experience.

For example, a doombuggy with no audio on Mansion or a honeycomb on Winnie the Pooh that does not rock/sway. If either of these were brought to our attention during my time as an NOCC CM, it automatically meant that Guest gets to ride again in a different vehicle. I can't speak to other lands or rides but if those were the rules for us, I don't think it would be a stretch to assume something like missed/glitched audio from Space Mountain or a rude flash photography Guest sitting in front of you on Pirates is worth bringing up to a CM after you finish riding.

You paid a lot to get in and waited a long time in line to ride. CMs understand this. You should get a good experience. You shouldn't stay quiet. You should absolutely bring it up to an unload CM if something like this happens. It is absolutely worth it because you as a Guest are worth it. As long as you do so nicely and not aggressively, CMs will help you out. Even if it means helping better your experience with a different attraction in the park (provided the issue on theirs is nothing they can change).
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yeah and for decades the show quality of said attractions wasn't ever really part of the proposition. It was possible to wait 5 hours in line for Indy when it opened, and still have some effects broken, or like the ice machine, just removed entirely without notice. Even today, you can still wait an hour for Space Mountain and miss out on the music or get walked off Big Thunder. Your only real recourse is to spend MORE time complaining to a Cast Member or haggling at City Hall. It's hardly worth it.

I would equate this more with paying money to see a movie you end up not liking. You still saw the movie.
Yeah, and we weren’t being asked to pay extra money to ride Indy, Space, and Thunder. Now we are. That’s the difference.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
You paid a lot to get in and waited a long time in line to ride. CMs understand this. You should get a good experience. You shouldn't stay quiet.

I don't think that's a question really, and that's current state as well. I think the question here as I am seeing it, is whether people who pay extra to skip a line, should be entitled to a better experience.

Yeah, and we weren’t being asked to pay extra money to ride Indy, Space, and Thunder. Now we are. That’s the difference.

You are given the option to pay extra money to skip the line. To save time.

Take the argument and flip it around: if people aren't paying extra money to skip the line, does that justify giving them a shoddy ride experience?
 

Tamandua

Well-Known Member
If something is broken when you ride, depending on what it was, it is absolutely worth it to bring it up (kindly) to a Cast Member. There are certain show elements we were taught, that were so integral to the experience that if a Guest approaches you afterwards to relay that said element was missing, our training was to put you through the attraction again, ASAP or make it up to you through another experience.

For example, a doombuggy with no audio on Mansion or a honeycomb on Winnie the Pooh that does not rock/sway. If either of these were brought to our attention during my time as an NOCC CM, it automatically meant that Guest gets to ride again in a different vehicle. I can't speak to other lands or rides but if those were the rules for us, I don't think it would be a stretch to assume something like missed/glitched audio from Space Mountain or a rude flash photography Guest sitting in front of you on Pirates is worth bringing up to a CM after you finish riding.

You paid a lot to get in and waited a long time in line to ride. CMs understand this. You should get a good experience. You shouldn't stay quiet. You should absolutely bring it up to an unload CM if something like this happens. It is absolutely worth it because you as a Guest are worth it. As long as you do so nicely and not aggressively, CMs will help you out. Even if it means helping better your experience with a different attraction in the park (provided the issue on theirs is nothing they can change).
What about scenes that aren't lit? I rode splash mountain 4 times over a week period and every time there were scenes that were dark. You couldn't even see some of the animatronics at all, and it definitely was a poor experience, but they made no effort to fix it even after a week.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I don't think that's a question really, and that's current state as well. I think the question here as I am seeing it, is whether people who pay extra to skip a line, should be entitled to a better experience.



You are given the option to pay extra money to skip the line. To save time.

Take the argument and flip it around: if people aren't paying extra money to skip the line, does that justify giving them a shoddy ride experience?
You are also given the option to pay extra money to skip lines for rides that Disney deems being worth more money. If I’m being asked to pay even more than what I’ve paid for the basic service, it’s not too much to expect a good to excellent experience.

Agree to disagree.
 

BuzzedPotatoHead89

Well-Known Member
What about scenes that aren't lit? I rode splash mountain 4 times over a week period and every time there were scenes that were dark. You couldn't even see some of the animatronics at all, and it definitely was a poor experience, but they made no effort to fix it even after a week.
In this case modern Disney’s operations cutbacks are doing you a favor by helping to not directly expose your eyes to “60 years racism”, as Bob Chapek would say. You should thank him that he’s not charging you extra for the more modern, cleansed experience. /sarcasm
 

DavidDL

Well-Known Member
What about scenes that aren't lit? I rode splash mountain 4 times over a week period and every time there were scenes that were dark. You couldn't even see some of the animatronics at all, and it definitely was a poor experience, but they made no effort to fix it even after a week.

So, attractions typically have a hierarchy of show effects. Certain show elements are considered more critical than others. iirc, if even one major element they considered major was reported down, the attraction would be forced to cycle out or in some cases, if a certain amount of lesser elements start to pile up and reach a certain value.

If the lightning was off in the scene, you should report it to a CM after you unload. If that show effect is on that CMs taught list of things to "compensate" you for your experience for, then they'll do something about it. However, in this instance, sending you through again doesn't fix the issue at hand because this wasn't a one-off glitchy audio track for that ride or a rude Guest in the same vehicle as you. In this case, the lighting will still be broken if they send you around again so they probably wouldn't offer that up as an option, they'd simply need to pass the information along, ASAP.

Once passed along, the team references whether or not the missing element is critical enough to warrant the attraction being cycled out/shut down and the issue repaired before reloading Guests. In this instance, my best guess would be that they were aware of the lightning issue but didn't consider it important enough with all things considered to justify shutting the attraction down for the day or for any kind of extended period of time. Whatever they needed to fix it has likely already been requested or been made aware of and facilities is playing a waiting game of sorts. While waiting, they need to determine if it's worth shutting the entire ride down so no one can ride it because of a few broken bulbs, etc. They likely determine on their morning and night ride throughs that it was "good enough" to justify keeping the ride open. Now, if the entire ride were coated in darkness, that'd probably be a different story.

Sadly, when certain things break to the point where they're "unfixable" without some sort of major investment from the company or pending approval/parts, that broken effect just sort of becomes the new standard and the documents that list their importance are just updated as such. I imagine this to be the case with things like Disco Yeti or the broken Chamber of Destiny. Because at that point, their choice is to either deny Guests the attraction entirely or run things in "B mode" until whatever bureaucracy that's holding things up get sorted out.

But you should still call things that are broken or bad experiences out, if you can and even if it doesn't lead to a free ride through because its for the betterment of everyone, too. On my last visit, Madame Leota had no face projection whatsoever so I mentioned it to a CM at the front gate afterwards and went to grab a bite at French Market. As we were dining, we saw the gates to the Mansion shut as they cycled Guests out of the attraction. When we came back later to find the Mansion had reopened, Leota was working just fine.
 
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mickEblu

Well-Known Member
what is this $50 number being thrown out for ROTR? No way. I cant see them going above $15-20 USD pp for the lightning lane rides to start. Which is still something I'm not interested in of course (unless im vacationing at WDW or one of the foreign parks) but it ain't $50!
 

DavidDL

Well-Known Member
I don't think that's a question really, and that's current state as well. I think the question here as I am seeing it, is whether people who pay extra to skip a line, should be entitled to a better experience.

My response was meant more as a "related aside" to the conversation you two were having, where it's okay to demand more, in general, given what you pay, what is promised or past experiences.

While I agree with the notion that Guests are simply paying to skip a line and that's where their dollars are going, there's still a valid discussion point to be made about them now charging for something that was so deeply ingrained in the minds and heavily utilized of/by Guests which used to be free and the look or problems this new system could create. An attraction like Indiana Jones already uses the "virtual queue only" option when stand-by gets too crazy. If the virtual queue fills up for the day on the app, then Disney has created a scenario where the only way for a Guest to experience the attraction is to pay extra to ride it. If that sort of thing becomes normalized or commonplace, that is where my own, personal feelings towards it become negative. Because in this case, you're not just paying to skip the line. In some possible scenarios, you "paying to skip the line" actually becomes the only way to ride certain things that you want to and therefore it becomes "pay to ride at all". -and if it ever reaches a point where it becomes "pay a premium to enter THEN pay again per ride just to ride it at all", then yeah, the rides should probably be in tip-top shape.

This is, all assuming the worst of the system, however. Since it hasn't even been released yet, I can't even definitively say that my concerns will be the norm or even happen at all. But if it happens even once or to a handful of folks, it's a problem worth watching out for.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
what is this $50 number being thrown out for ROTR? No way. I cant see them going above $15-20 USD pp for the lightning lane rides to start. Which is still something I'm not interested in of course (unless im vacationing at WDW or one of the foreign parks) but it ain't $50!
It's apparently a rumor from Jim Hill so take it for what it's worth.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
I'm more curious what happens if smaller things like the ball not working in Indy happen.

You know most guests that pay $100 for their family of 4 to ride Indy that experience something like this are going to complain.

Will Disney tell them to kick rocks? Will they let them ride again? Will they give them all their money back? A partial refund?

Can't wait to see the fine print when you pay for fast lane. I'm sure it will include some clause about the rides not fully functioning.
Disney never makes guarantees about their rides conditions, they won't do anything, regardless of how much you paid.

I once waited an hour for Pirates and every single animatronic had their head looking to the ground (but their mouth was moving), and had no other motion. Was super creepy though.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
what is this $50 number being thrown out for ROTR? No way. I cant see them going above $15-20 USD pp for the lightning lane rides to start. Which is still something I'm not interested in of course (unless im vacationing at WDW or one of the foreign parks) but it ain't $50!
Supply and demand. Very limited supply creates very large demand.

Missed out on the one second cell phone lottery? You can fly home and never go on Rise or pay 50 bucks a person. Disney knows what they are doing.

If I took a person to DL who has never been on Rise, I'd pay it to give them the experience.

Part of me thinks Disney created this low capacity problem on Rise and Cars with Paid Fastpass in mind.
 

DavidDL

Well-Known Member
... Missed out on the one second cell phone lottery? You can fly home and never go on Rise or pay 50 bucks a person. Disney knows what they are doing. ...

This is interesting to think about because we know that extra money (whatever they choose to charge) isn't like, going towards more staff to get more people on the ride or what have you. The fact that Disney could theoretically open up additional spaces to folks who didn't snag a lottery ticket and are instead willing to pay, means that the attraction could have handled those extra folks to begin with. So why deny them a ticket by saying "we're full for the day"?

Clearly, they aren't. The ability to buy a pass to the front of an attraction like RotR would prove that point. It only proves they want to divide capacity so they get get some extra cash for folks who will pay for it. They are showing that they are willing to create artificial scarcity (however small) for attraction space in exchange for money. -and if they are willing to do it on one attraction, I think it's fair to worry about them doing it across the board.
 

Sailor310

Well-Known Member
I've had an AP on and off for years. I had single-rider and fastpass wired. Now I have to learn a whole new system.
If I know Disney IT, the system will not be easy to use.

An OCR article quoted Chapek as saying the Genie will "prove substantial commercial opportunities." I have a bad feeling about this.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
This is interesting to think about because we know that extra money (whatever they choose to charge) isn't like, going towards more staff to get more people on the ride or what have you. The fact that Disney could theoretically open up additional spaces to folks who didn't snag a lottery ticket and are instead willing to pay, means that the attraction could have handled those extra folks to begin with. So why deny them a ticket by saying "we're full for the day"?

Clearly, they aren't. The ability to buy a pass to the front of an attraction like RotR would prove that point. It only proves they want to divide capacity so they get get some extra cash for folks who will pay for it. They are showing that they are willing to create artificial scarcity (however small) for attraction space in exchange for money. -and if they are willing to do it on one attraction, I think it's fair to worry about them doing it across the board.
100%
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
An attraction like Indiana Jones already uses the "virtual queue only" option when stand-by gets too crazy. If the virtual queue fills up for the day on the app, then Disney has created a scenario where the only way for a Guest to experience the attraction is to pay extra to ride it. If that sort of thing becomes normalized or commonplace, that is where my own, personal feelings towards it become negative.

I know this is mostly all academic at this point, but the "pay to play" scenario just doesn't seem all that different to me in the grand scheme of things.

Yes there are potential scenarios where the standby line is full, the virtual queue is full, or capacity is limited in some other way, where paying seems like the only option to ride: but to be perfectly honest, that isn't all that much of a change from today. If you don't do your planning ahead of time, you can miss out on riding the big attractions. To paraphrase a bit from what you said earlier: if you can still line up in the standby line, you can still ride the attraction and maintain the status quo. If you show up late, or put off riding until the end of the night, or can't stomach a 3+ hour wait, you may still miss out on riding something, paid option or not.

For what it's worth, my personal feelings on this are pretty mixed at the moment, but for completely other reasons.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
This is interesting to think about because we know that extra money (whatever they choose to charge) isn't like, going towards more staff to get more people on the ride or what have you. The fact that Disney could theoretically open up additional spaces to folks who didn't snag a lottery ticket and are instead willing to pay, means that the attraction could have handled those extra folks to begin with. So why deny them a ticket by saying "we're full for the day"?

Clearly, they aren't. The ability to buy a pass to the front of an attraction like RotR would prove that point. It only proves they want to divide capacity so they get get some extra cash for folks who will pay for it. They are showing that they are willing to create artificial scarcity (however small) for attraction space in exchange for money. -and if they are willing to do it on one attraction, I think it's fair to worry about them doing it across the board.
This is exactly what they did with shows by making freely available seats locked behind paid packages. (or adding random tents in tommorowland).
 

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