Disney Genie/Genie+ On Their Way to Anaheim

[DavidDL]

I know this is mostly all academic at this point, but the "pay to play" scenario just doesn't seem all that different to me in the grand scheme of things.

Yes there are potential scenarios where the standby line is full, the virtual queue is full, or capacity is limited in some other way, where paying seems like the only option to ride: but to be perfectly honest, that isn't all that much of a change from today. If you don't do your planning ahead of time, you can miss out on riding the big attractions. To paraphrase a bit from what you said earlier: if you can still line up in the standby line, you can still ride the attraction and maintain the status quo. If you show up late, or put off riding until the end of the night, or can't stomach a 3+ hour wait, you may still miss out on riding something, paid option or not.

For what it's worth, my personal feelings on this are pretty mixed at the moment, but for completely other reasons.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m hoping for the best with this whole thing, I certainly hope my fears are proven to be unwarranted. On one hand, the idea of making Fastpasses paid (thereby lowering the people using it and speeding up standby lines) could theoretically make standby lines more efficient and reduce the need to always be using Fastpass to begin with.

In theory, of course. We won’t know anything until we see it actually played out or go for ourselves. I just don’t want to ever be forced into a scenario where the only way for me to ride, say, Haunted Mansion Holiday is to pay 20 bucks per person, when I’m an individual who would be more than willing to wait hours for it.

 

[mickEblu]

Supply and demand. Very limited supply creates very large demand.

Missed out on the one second cell phone lottery? You can fly home and never go on Rise or pay 50 bucks a person. Disney knows what they are doing.

If I took a person to DL who has never been on Rise, I'd pay it to give them the experience.

Part of me thinks Disney created this low capacity problem on Rise and Cars with Paid Fastpass in mind.

Oh shoot. Ok you may have changed my mind. I was thinking of whatever rides they are offering with Lightning Pass in general which I suppose they could charge for $50 for too but you make a good example with ROTR. In that case I could see it being used even if not by the masses.

I myself said I’d pay for the Lightning Lane services on a WDW trip. Just didn’t think it would be that high. I still think the $50 price tag if offered would only be used by a minority of guests and as a last resort of course.

 

[Californian Elitist]

What would have been more palatable is offering a bundle of rides for one price for the lightning option. For an extra $20-30, you can skip the standby queues for Indy, Space, Thunder, Splash (even if it’s in awful condition), and Rise. Offer a bundle for DCA as well with Racers, Incredicoaster, Guardians, and maybe something else.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Oh shoot. Ok you may have changed my mind. I was thinking of whatever rides they are offering with Lightning Pass in general which I suppose they could charge for $50 for too but you make a good example with ROTR. In that case I could see it being used even if not by the masses.

I myself said I’d pay for the Lightning Lane services on a WDW trip. Just didn’t think it would be that high. I still think the $50 price tag if offered would only be used by a minority of guests and as a last resort of course.

Think of it this way: you and your family of 4 are from out of town on a once in a decade trip to DL. You quickly sign in on the app to get a boarding group knowing you made the trip for this purpose.

To your disappointment you are assigned a “back up boarding group” of 275 and know your two kids will be devastated if they miss out on the ride. But you figure it’s worth the wait and see. Hey, there’s a good chance you’ll make it, and you don’t want to pay the $25 for a guaranteed boarding group at 7 am (which I speculate will only go up as capacity becomes more scarce)

Come the end of the day the helpful Genie sends you a push notification at 7 pm just a few hours before closing:
“UNFORTUNATELY DUE TO HIGH DEMAND WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GRANT YOUR PARTIES BOARDING GROUP TODAY. GENIE RECOMMENDS YOU UPGRADE TO A LIGHTING “STRIKE” LANE ACCESS LANE IMMEDIATELY FOR IMMEDIATE GUARANTEED ACCESS FOR A REASONABLE STARTING RATE OF $50 USD (+ PROCESSING FEES)”

While it may seem outrageous for families that are already out a minimum of $2,500 this extra fee is an easy impulse buy. And with credit card data loaded into the app so many occasional guests will just say “to heck with it” once they turn through the gates.

if you’re Chapek: The great thing with this entire “surge pricing” approach is it flips ops on its head. No need for maximizing operational throughput efficiencies if less capacity means = “enhanced” guest interest & desperation.

 

[mickEblu]

Think of it this way: you and your family of 4 are from out of town on a once in a decade trip to DL. You quickly sign in on the app to get a boarding group knowing you made the trip for this purpose.

To your disappointment you are assigned a “back up boarding group” of 275 and know your two kids will be devastated if they miss out on the ride. But you figure it’s worth the wait and see. Hey, there’s a good chance you’ll make it, and you don’t want to pay the $25 for a guaranteed boarding group at 7 am (which I speculate will only go up as capacity becomes more scarce)

Come the end of the day the helpful Genie sends you a push notification at 7 pm just a few hours before closing:
“UNFORTUNATELY DUE TO HIGH DEMAND WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GRANT YOUR PARTIES BOARDING GROUP TODAY. GENIE RECOMMENDS YOU UPGRADE TO A LIGHTING “STRIKE” LANE ACCESS LANE IMMEDIATELY FOR IMMEDIATE GUARANTEED ACCESS FOR A REASONABLE STARTING RATE OF $50 USD (+ PROCESSING FEES)”

While it may seem outrageous for families that are already out a minimum of $2,500 this extra fee is an easy impulse buy. And with credit card data loaded into the app so many occasional guests will just say “to heck with it” once they turn through the gates.

if you’re Chapek: The great thing with this entire “surge pricing” approach is it flips ops on its head. No need for maximizing operational throughput efficiencies if less capacity means = “enhanced” guest interest & desperation.

Im sold and I change my mind. I can see this being a thing. Still think $50 is high though and don't think people will use it as often as Disney hopes they do.

Is there a Lightning Pass that allows you to ride the original Haunted Mansion during Halloween and Christmas?

 

[No Name]

I'm not an expert on operations, but I think it's possible this system could actually significantly reduce standby wait times across the parks.

I have a feeling the rides that fall under Genie+ will have lightning lanes* that fill up like fastpass. The $20 price point seems like it’s low enough that a lot of people will buy it.

I know what you mean here, but looking back, Fastpass was never really a free service was it? The costs of Fastpass was always built into the higher-than-average admissions price for Disney parks. When it was rolled out, it was designed as a way to set Disney apart from the rest of the competition, but that competition quickly caught up, and moreso than Disney, monetized it. And unlike every other system that started with a paid option, Fastpass was open to all who entered the park and as such, worked to a lesser degree than the rest.

In the grand scheme of things, a $20 price increase is nothing. If they can guarantee fairly low (less than 10 minute) waits for every attraction that previously had Fastpass, it will be worth it. I have my doubts that they will be able to do that, and of course, if more people end up buying into the service than it can handle, they will be faced with the dilemma of either raising the price or just allowing the wait times for the lightning lane to balloon.

I think the only thing I am finding disappointing here, is just how complicated and complex the whole experience is getting. I understand how, creating tiers of pricing and services is generally a good way to keep interested the demographics that demand cheap access, but something is definitely getting lost in the experience.

yeah, free was a poor word choice. It wasn’t free, it was included. I think fastpass’s biggest benefit was psychological and now that’s lost.

 

[No Name]

This new system gives Disney incentive to keep lines long. The longer the line, the more valuable skipping it becomes. Instead of just doing a decent job building and operating a theme park, with rides that have high capacity, they’ll now charge you more money for bigger blunders they made.

It also might cause some new guests
to over-research certain rides to figure out if it’s worth paying to skip the line. You shouldn’t have to experience the park on YouTube to make responsible decisions about your experience in person.

 

[SplashGhost]

Supply and demand. Very limited supply creates very large demand.

Missed out on the one second cell phone lottery? You can fly home and never go on Rise or pay 50 bucks a person. Disney knows what they are doing.

If I took a person to DL who has never been on Rise, I'd pay it to give them the experience.

Part of me thinks Disney created this low capacity problem on Rise and Cars with Paid Fastpass in mind.

There has been a trend across the theme park industry of building more low capacity attractions over building high capacity ones. The RMC Raptors are great rides, but depending on the model, they only hold 8-12 people a train, which is a severe decrease from B&Ms that can hold 32 people a train.

Another good example is HangTime at Knott's, a park that doesn't have nearly enough ride capacity for the crowds it generates, should have never built such a low capacity coaster. I feel like theme parks are purposely building low capacity rides to increase the sales of paid "skip the line" passes.

While the trend of Disney building low capacity rides dates back to the time before Chapek, it could have been done with the intent that eventually they would be charging for access to these rides. In a way, they already were charging for Fastpass at WDW, since you needed to have a hotel reservation for an on property hotel to have a chance at getting a Fastpass for certain attractions.

Even if Genie+ isn't right for Disneyland, it is an improvement over what WDW had. I do really love theme parks, but I have not been a fan of a lot of recent trends in the industry.

 

[DavidDL]

This new system gives Disney incentive to keep lines long. The longer the line, the more valuable skipping it becomes. ...

I started thinking this, too but was having a hard time finding the words for some reason. Well said! Definitely something to consider. One fear I have for this is that maybe they end up cutting staff on certain attractions in order to purposefully extended the queues.

That might sound silly but less staff = less efficiency and also less money spent on hourly CMs. -and like you said, incentivizes people to buy Lightning Lane. So Disney could cut their staff, create longer lines and make us pay them to skip them. It sounds like something a Saturday morning cartoon villain might come up with but it could very well be the future we face.

 

[DrAlice]

Think of it this way: you and your family of 4 are from out of town on a once in a decade trip to DL. You quickly sign in on the app to get a boarding group knowing you made the trip for this purpose.

To your disappointment you are assigned a “back up boarding group” of 275 and know your two kids will be devastated if they miss out on the ride. But you figure it’s worth the wait and see. Hey, there’s a good chance you’ll make it, and you don’t want to pay the $25 for a guaranteed boarding group at 7 am (which I speculate will only go up as capacity becomes more scarce)

Come the end of the day the helpful Genie sends you a push notification at 7 pm just a few hours before closing:
“UNFORTUNATELY DUE TO HIGH DEMAND WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GRANT YOUR PARTIES BOARDING GROUP TODAY. GENIE RECOMMENDS YOU UPGRADE TO A LIGHTING “STRIKE” LANE ACCESS LANE IMMEDIATELY FOR IMMEDIATE GUARANTEED ACCESS FOR A REASONABLE STARTING RATE OF $50 USD (+ PROCESSING FEES)”

I stand by my earlier comment. I would be mad. And it would ABSOLUTELY be my one and only trip.

Yes, some guests will pay for this. Some, like me, will feel nickle-and-dimed and will be alienated. Disney is betting there wil be more of the former. They're probably right. And that's fine. I'll enjoy the rest that this big, beautiful planet has to offer.

 

[DrAlice]

To be clear.... I don't think the $20 lighning thing is a big deal (it's like MaxPass). I'm just talking about this idea of a large fee for one ride. I'm just out for that. As others have more eloquently said, it is a manipulation of the ride capacity for cash. I will vote with my wallet. There's more to life than Disney.

 

[Californian Elitist]

To be clear.... I don't think the $20 lighning thing is a big deal (it's like MaxPass). I'm just talking about this idea of a large fee for one ride. I'm just out for that. As others have more eloquently said, it is a manipulation of the ride capacity for cash. I will vote with my wallet. There's more to life than Disney.

SO much more to life. Like national parks. Definitely going to start hitting those up in the near future.

I’m planning a trip to New Orleans and Guanajuato and San Miguel de Allende, México next year. Tag along.

 

[mickEblu]

There has been a trend across the theme park industry of building more low capacity attractions over building high capacity ones. The RMC Raptors are great rides, but depending on the model, they only hold 8-12 people a train, which is a severe decrease from B&Ms that can hold 32 people a train.

Another good example is HangTime at Knott's, a park that doesn't have nearly enough ride capacity for the crowds it generates, should have never built such a low capacity coaster. I feel like theme parks are purposely building low capacity rides to increase the sales of paid "skip the line" passes.

While the trend of Disney building low capacity rides dates back to the time before Chapek, it could have been done with the intent that eventually they would be charging for access to these rides. In a way, they already were charging for Fastpass at WDW, since you needed to have a hotel reservation for an on property hotel to have a chance at getting a Fastpass for certain attractions.

Even if Genie+ isn't right for Disneyland, it is an improvement over what WDW had. I do really love theme parks, but I have not been a fan of a lot of recent trends in the industry.

I think the low capacity rides are more because of incompetence and prioritizing technology over ride capacity. Not some long term plan to sell more Lightning lane passes.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Yeah, and we weren’t being asked to pay extra money to ride Indy, Space, and Thunder. Now we are. That’s the difference.

No one is asking you to pay extra anything. You don't have to use Genie + or the paid solo Lightning Lanes. It's all voluntary. Get in stand by for majority of rides or get a boarding group for Rise and have a good time. This is optional, not required.

 

[mickEblu]

SO much more to life. Like national parks. Definitely going to start hitting those up in the near future.

I’m planning a trip to New Orleans and Guanajuato and San Miguel de Allende, México next year. Tag along.

And I’ll keep living through all of you lol. It’s not as easy for some of us to take off and do those things.

New Orleans has been on my bucket list for a while.

 

[Californian Elitist]

And I’ll keep living through all of you lol. It’s not as easy for some of us to take off and do those things.

New Orleans has been on my bucket list for a while.

You can make it possible with adequate timelines and saving methods. Use any money you plan to spend on Disneyland, passes included, and use it towards a family trip to New Orleans or anywhere else. Traveling is as expensive as people want it to be. One doesn’t have to spend a ton of money.

I loved going to Disneyland as a kid, but I wish my parents thought outside the box and took me and my siblings elsewhere. There’s so much more to offer children than Disneyland. This is not to say that Disneyland is a bad choice, but that there’s more. And trust me, Disney execs are laughing and making fun of how they can and so increase prices with nothing in return and still have those loyal and faithful guests returning no matter what. I’ve been in the room when that has happened. They literally crack jokes and laugh at us.

If you can stay away from the Mouse long enough, treat your family to something new. Plan and save!

 

[Tamandua]

Rumor is going around that the ultimate plan is to eventually sell ticket books that include tickets for each ride tier. A ticket book would include tickets for tiers 1-5, with the best attractions being considered "5-Ticket" attractions. When asked why they don't just use the old A-E ticket system, Disney representatives explained how the old system was sunsetted along with other cultural sensitivity changes throughout the parks, and that A-E tickets were somehow considered racist, though no one could really explain why.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

To be clear.... I don't think the $20 lighning thing is a big deal (it's like MaxPass). I'm just talking about this idea of a large fee for one ride. I'm just out for that. As others have more eloquently said, it is a manipulation of the ride capacity for cash. I will vote with my wallet. There's more to life than Disney.

Oh, I don’t disagree. I think this “surge pricing” Trojan horse system even if it’s initially limited is a sham to inflate quarterly earnings reports that can easily be manipulated to bulk day guests out of more and more coin with each passing fiscal quarter. It’s the type of “non-inclusive” profit maximizing policy that even the corporate boardrooms of 20 years ago would have blushed at. And I think it’s needlessly convoluted by design.

But I also respect how it is now fully transparent the level of private disdain the executives have for their customers and hourly employees, many of which will likely never return to the staffing levels pre-pandemic levels and will be in the uncomfortable position of hanging to explain these confusing new layers of complexity.

 

[mickEblu]

You can make it possible with adequate timelines and saving methods. Use any money you plan to spend on Disneyland, passes included, and use it towards a family trip to New Orleans or anywhere else. Traveling is as expensive as people want it to be. One doesn’t have to spend a ton of money.

I loved going to Disneyland as a kid, but I wish my parents thought outside the box and took me and my siblings elsewhere. There’s so much more to offer children than Disneyland. This is not to say that Disneyland is a bad choice, but that there’s more. And trust me, Disney execs are laughing and making fun of how they can and so increase prices with nothing in return and still have those loyal and faithful guests returning no matter what. I’ve been in the room when that has happened. They literally crack jokes and laugh at us.

If you can stay away from the Mouse long enough, treat your family to something new. Plan and save!

You re not wrong. It just takes a lot more planning ,a lot more money, a lot more energy etc.

I was referring more to the kids making it tough but money is a factor as well. With that said, God knows I spend a small fortune every year going out to eat and buying collectibles. Part of the reason myself or others choose theme parks or DL is out of convenience. It’s entertainment for the whole year as opposed to a week vacation. Ideally we like to do a few smaller weekend trips and one longer trip a year but that’s not always possible.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I would equate this more with paying money to see a movie you end up not liking. You still saw the movie.

If you pay extra for the Atmos showing you’re going to expect all of the speakers to work.