Disney fighting hard to keep gambling out of Florida

[21stamps]

I also think plenty of Orlando residents wouldn't conplain if casinos and casino hotels/complexes came to town.

The night clubs are super popular, it brings in more shopping and restaurants, and people in SoFla have been happy with the casinos for many years now.
Hard Rock Tampa is the next closest thing.

While I can see why Disney is fighting for this, I don't think they'll win. But then again, Florida was the home of the $100 buy in., so they've proven that the state makes stupid decisions.lol

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I get that Disney doesn't want the competition of a casino on I-Drive or in Maitland or Altamonte Springs, or anywhere else near their property. Got it....and I somewhat agree that casino's near or around Disney are probably not a great idea.

What I don't get is how Disney perceives they can claim a moral high-ground and influence/lobby against such establishments in Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa, Daytona, Destin and in short other areas of Florida that don't rely on the economic benefits that Disney brings.

The original proposal was not to create a Las Vegas Strip type of an environment where you would line up casino after casino. Rather, it was to allocate about half a dozen licenses for standalone types of mega-resorts that offered casino gaming. If I remember correctly there was to be a buffer of about 50-75 miles that would separate these resorts. If Miami or Jacksonville, or Pensacola for that matter, wanted to offer incentives to an MGM or a Steve Wynn to invest in their communities - what right does Disney have to stop that? The fear that some would make the trip from Disney to visit these establishments?

 

[GoofGoof]

The Seminole's own Hard Rock, the entire brand.

I'm against Disney on this one. Florida has a twisted past with gambling.. when they finally allowed it- wild success happened, many more jobs were created, The Seminole Tribe made billions of dollars.

Let other people in on that.

Yep, they own the whole brand now. Restaurants and casinos. The Hard Rock Casino in Vegas was originally a joint venture between a casino company and the original founders of Hard Rock Cafe. They sold the casino to another company and with it they sold the rights to the Hard Rock Casino name for a limited geographic area. It’s a deal similar to Universal’s Marvel rights but in this case the rights are only for the Western United States. Worldwide rights everywhere else belong to the Seminole Indians now. I think the Hard Rock in Vegas is owned by a hedge fund now and run by a casino company. It has a cool vibe and is sorta off the beaten path which makes it kinda cool.

I’m not opposed to gambling in general. I do understand why Disney and Universal would fight against it on their turf but that’s just business.

 

[21stamps]

I get that Disney doesn't want the competition of a casino on I-Drive or in Maitland or Altamonte Springs, or anywhere else near their property. Got it....and I somewhat agree that casino's near or around Disney are probably not a great idea.

What I don't get is how Disney perceives they can claim a moral high-ground and influence/lobby against such establishments in Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa, Daytona, Destin and in short other areas of Florida that don't rely on the economic benefits that Disney brings.

The original proposal was not to create a Las Vegas Strip type of an environment where you would line up casino after casino. Rather, it was to allocate about half a dozen licenses for standalone types of mega-resorts that offered casino gaming. If I remember correctly there was to be a buffer of about 50-75 miles that would separate these resorts. If Miami or Jacksonville, or Pensacola for that matter, wanted to offer incentives to an MGM or a Steve Wynn to invest in their communities - what right does Disney have to stop that? The fear that some would make the trip from Disney to visit these establishments?

Does Disney have a deal with the Seminoles?
I'm kind of joking.. but what you said is so true. I just said this in another thread- there is SO MUCH more to Florida than just Disney and Orlando.

 

[GoofGoof]

I get that Disney doesn't want the competition of a casino on I-Drive or in Maitland or Altamonte Springs, or anywhere else near their property. Got it....and I somewhat agree that casino's near or around Disney are probably not a great idea.

What I don't get is how Disney perceives they can claim a moral high-ground and influence/lobby against such establishments in Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa, Daytona, Destin and in short other areas of Florida that don't rely on the economic benefits that Disney brings.

The original proposal was not to create a Las Vegas Strip type of an environment where you would line up casino after casino. Rather, it was to allocate about half a dozen licenses for standalone types of mega-resorts that offered casino gaming. If I remember correctly there was to be a buffer of about 50-75 miles that would separate these resorts. If Miami or Jacksonville, or Pensacola for that matter, wanted to offer incentives to an MGM or a Steve Wynn to invest in their communities - what right does Disney have to stop that? The fear that some would make the trip from Disney to visit these establishments?

I’m sure their fear is that once you build something in Miami or Jacksonville it’s only a matter of time before it’s built in Orlando. It’s an irrational fear to some extent, but if you look at it from TWDC standpoint they have zero benefit from a casino in Miami but potential downside if that leads to casinos in Orlando so they are against it. I think that’s the main driver of their objection as opposed to losing guests.

 

[21stamps]

Yep, they own the whole brand now. Restaurants and casinos. The Hard Rock Casino in Vegas was originally a joint venture between a casino company and the original founders of Hard Rock Cafe. They sold the casino to another company and with it they sold the rights to the Hard Rock Casino name for a limited geographic area. It’s a deal similar to Universal’s Marvel rights but in this case the rights are only for the Western United States. Worldwide rights everywhere else belong to the Seminole Indians now. I think the Hard Rock in Vegas is owned by a hedge fund now and run by a casino company. It has a cool vibe and is sorta off the beaten path which makes it kinda cool.

I’m not opposed to gambling in general. I do understand why Disney and Universal would fight against it on their turf but that’s just business.

Oh, I thought you were talking about Tampa and Hollywood.

I don't compare Vegas to the Florida casinos because they aren't supposed to be the same.
Vegas doesn't have a beach.. they have a strip of casinos and entertainment in the dessert.

Florida has a strip of entertainment hundreds of miles long on the coasts. The casinos there just add to it.
Hard Rock Hollywood, by far the best casino complex in Florida, is all the way out by the Everglades.. it was built so quickly.. and then outdoor venues expanded. The clubs have been extremely popular. People vacation there, but also aren't too far from the beach, so for most it's not a gambling only vacation- which contributes to the entire economy.

Florida shouldn't, wouldn't, and definitely does not need a Vegas set up. They have Miami Beach.lol

 

[Nemo14]

I get that Disney doesn't want the competition of a casino on I-Drive or in Maitland or Altamonte Springs, or anywhere else near their property. Got it....and I somewhat agree that casino's near or around Disney are probably not a great idea.

What I don't get is how Disney perceives they can claim a moral high-ground and influence/lobby against such establishments in Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa, Daytona, Destin and in short other areas of Florida that don't rely on the economic benefits that Disney brings.

The original proposal was not to create a Las Vegas Strip type of an environment where you would line up casino after casino. Rather, it was to allocate about half a dozen licenses for standalone types of mega-resorts that offered casino gaming. If I remember correctly there was to be a buffer of about 50-75 miles that would separate these resorts. If Miami or Jacksonville, or Pensacola for that matter, wanted to offer incentives to an MGM or a Steve Wynn to invest in their communities - what right does Disney have to stop that? The fear that some would make the trip from Disney to visit these establishments?

It's not making the trip from Disney that they fear - it's the making the trip instead of Disney that they're fighting. They don't want a big casino/convention center cutting in on their profits.

 

[21stamps]

I’m sure their fear is that once you build something in Miami or Jacksonville it’s only a matter of time before it’s built in Orlando. It’s an irrational fear to some extent, but if you look at it from TWDC standpoint they have zero benefit from a casino in Miami but potential downside if that leads to casinos in Orlando so they are against it. I think that’s the main driver of their objection as opposed to losing guests.

There are already several casinos in SoFla.. that area was the only one allowed for some time.. then they allowed Tampa..but I think their table games came much later than ours did.

This move will do nothing but keep the Seminoles in charge of everything..I don't completely understand Disney's stake in it. I get that they don't want to lose customers..but
I also don't think a huge casino will open next to Disney Springs.

 

[peter11435]

I
what right does Disney have to stop that? The fear that some would make the trip from Disney to visit these establishments?

They don't have any 'right' to stop it, but they do have the 'right' to use their name and money to attempt to convince Floridian voters to stop it.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

I’m sure their fear is that once you build something in Miami or Jacksonville it’s only a matter of time before it’s built in Orlando. It’s an irrational fear to some extent, but if you look at it from TWDC standpoint they have zero benefit from a casino in Miami but potential downside if that leads to casinos in Orlando so they are against it. I think that’s the main driver of their objection as opposed to losing guests.

Agreed. But Disney could easily obtain (or influence) the license for any gaming resort near property. And the odds would be so disproportionate in the house's favor - no serious gambler would play there anyway. Also, the people going to those establishments come in many different shapes and sizes.

Look at Vegas. You have the ones playing high limit tables at Encore who then have a $500 dinner and spend a few hundred more on a show -- and those playing at Circus Circus that then go feast on the 99c shrimp cocktail. Disney doesn't want Circus Circus. Encore might not be such a bad thing.

 

[lentesta]

Imma leave this here.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

They don't have any 'right' to stop it, but they do have the 'right' to use their name and money to attempt to convince Floridian voters to stop it.

Except -- Disney's money isn't going towards convincing Florida voters to stop it. It's going to state lawmakers to pass legislation to see that its stopped.

 

[GoofGoof]

Agreed. But Disney could easily obtain (or influence) the license for any gaming resort near property. And the odds would be so disproportionate in the house's favor - no serious gambler would play there anyway. Also, the people going to those establishments come in many different shapes and sizes.

Look at Vegas. You have the ones playing high limit tables at Encore who then have a $500 dinner and spend a few hundred more on a show -- and those playing at Circus Circus that then go feast on the 99c shrimp cocktail. Disney doesn't want Circus Circus. Encore might not be such a bad thing.

I don’t see Disney having any interest in buying a gaming license. Like someone said earlier they have cruise ships with no gambling. If they wanted to get into gambling that would be the first place we would see it. Lobbying is likely much cheaper than buying a gaming license to block competitors too. This isn’t a game changer for Disney. If all of the major gaming companies built mega resorts within close proximity to WDW it wouldn’t put a serious dent in the Mouse’s business. While it’s not a game changer it is still bad for their business so throwing a few lobbying dollars at the issue is probably a sound business decision.

 

[peter11435]

They don't have any 'right' to stop it, but they do have the 'right' to use their name and money to attempt to convince Floridian voters to stop it.

Correct. But the point remains the same. They don't have the right to stop them but they do have the right to use their power to influence those who can.

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Imma leave this here.

View attachment 238016

You got a copy of page 23 on?

Does the doc reference anything about California or Florida? Or why the study was undertaken? I know it's Eisner not Iger but it'd be interesting to see what was going though Mike E's mind at the time.

 

[21stamps]

You got a copy of page 23 on?

Does the doc reference anything about California or Florida? Or why the study was undertaken? I know it's Eisner not Iger but it'd be interesting to see what was going though Mike E's mind at the time.

Also we need to keep in mind that a lot has changed since 1996. Casinos are more prevelant than ever, all across the USA now.

 

[Goofyernmost]

They haven't "pulled" anything. They chose to let them expire rather than paying to "pull" them.
If Harvey stopped harassing women today from a position of power would that make him any less of a creep going forward?

Really, your going to compare someone harassing women to a gambling game where every participant is a willing one? Get a little logic squeezed in there someplace.

 

[GoofGoof]

Imma leave this here.

View attachment 238016

I wonder if they looked into a DVC location at Niagra Falls. 1996 was around the timeframe they opened Hilton Head and Vero Beach and they had plans for a timeshare resort in Hawaii back in the 90s too although it wasn’t built until a little while later. At that time Eisner very much planned on having DVC be much more than just WDW.

 

[beachlover4444]

We drove down to Tampa to the casino when we were just at Disney a few weeks ago. Sorry we lost 40 bucks in a half hour, went back to disney. I dont think Casinos would hurt Florida, they already have it in Tampa and it hasnt hurt disney at all. And in Ohio we had casinos all over so if we wanted to do it we'd do it at home, not go to Fl to gamble.

 

[GoofGoof]

We drove down to Tampa to the casino when we were just at Disney a few weeks ago. Sorry we lost 40 bucks in a half hour, went back to disney. I dont think Casinos would hurt Florida, they already have it in Tampa and it hasnt hurt disney at all. And in Ohio we had casinos all over so if we wanted to do it we'd do it at home, not go to Fl to gamble.

I agree with this. I don’t think more casinos in FL will be a big driver for overall tourism. They will mostly canabalize existing entertainment options and will have the most appeal to locals. A large portion of states now have some form of legalized gambling so not many people will travel out of state just to gamble. The biggest loss for a company like Disney or Universal is their guests (tourists and/or locals) leaving to spend money at a casino instead of spending it at Disney Springs or City Walk or in a park. The closer the casinos the better chance people will go.