Disney fighting hard to keep gambling out of Florida

[WDWTank]

Oh for crying out loud...

This isn't money coming from freaking attraction budgets.

They could use it for the attractions though
A little more never hurts

 

[John park hopper]

IMO Disney is wrong on this one. Face it gambling has been in FL for years--- horse racing and jai alia. I don't gamble so it makes no difference to me if they build a casino near or on Disney property

 

[AEfx]

IMO Disney is wrong on this one. Face it gambling has been in FL for years--- horse racing and jai alia. I don't gamble so it makes no difference to me if they build a casino near or on Disney property

Wrong in what way, though?

192 has finally been cleaned up a bit from the tourist trap it became. They just don't want the new push that would come for everyone to get gambling establishments set up as close to Disney property as they can, to take advantage of the people that WDW brings to the area. It's a business decision, not a moral one. And this is a tiny amount of money, comparatively, to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[John park hopper]

Wrong in the sense they think it would hurt their business; I'm curious what studies have they done to support this view. I would think local zoning would regulate where and what is built. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think casinos allow kids, therefore I don't think families @ WDW will be rush to gamble

 

[peter11435]

Wrong in the sense they think it would hurt their business; I'm curious what studies have they done to support this view. I would think local zoning would regulate where and what is built.

Any time potential guests have additional opportunties to spend their vacation dollars elsewhere potentially takes money that could have gone to Disney and redirects it. This is why magical express exists.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wrong in the sense they think it would hurt their business; I'm curious what studies have they done to support this view. I would think local zoning would regulate where and what is built. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think casinos allow kids, therefore I don't think families @ WDW will be rush to gamble

TWDC is a multi-billion dollar corporation. They know their business and the markets they are in. They also have the funds available to hire outside consultants to look at the impact of gambling on their business. If they were in a position to make more money with gambling around they would be backing it (at least privately) or at the worst not pushing against it. If they are spending money lobbying to prevent gambling I am sure they have reports and models that back up their position. Companies don’t just spend lobbying money on a whim or based on assumptions without support.

As far as demographics go there are more than just families with kids visiting WDW. Go to EPCOT between the end of August and the first week in November and you will see there are plenty of people at WDW not just looking to spend a day with their kids. There is also a very healthy convention business and there are a ton of new vendors at Disney Springs that could be negatively impacted if alternative entertainment options opened up.

 

[AEfx]

Wrong in the sense they think it would hurt their business; I'm curious what studies have they done to support this view. I would think local zoning would regulate where and what is built. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think casinos allow kids, therefore I don't think families @ WDW will be rush to gamble

Even if you completely disregard the fact of what it would do the environment of 192 and the surrounding areas, I guess you haven't seen how "family friendly" a lot of gambling establishments actually are. These are not dank smoky parlor rooms - you can bet they would be upbeat and lit up like Christmas trees and have places for kids to play while their parents did the slots. It would directly compete with Disney Springs for nighttime audiences.

You should look at a place like Foxwoods which has Disney-style rockwork and theming and offers all kinds of things for the rest of the family to do while the parent(s) are dumping money into machines.

 

[UCF]

Have you been? You don't have to gamble at all at a Hard Rock complex. Same as Atlantis, or a cruise ship.. there's a long list of places that have casinos and entertainment.. and gambling is not required or even needed.



You should tell the Seminoles to halt their Hollywood expansion.

Have they actually started building that expansion? I was there a little over a year ago, and at the Tampa one probably 9 months ago, so I'm basing it on that (and my previous visits are a few years prior, not single visits to either one)

And just because I believe they currently aren't good enough to really attract people from out of state doesn't mean they WON'T be good enough to in the future if they make improvements. The proposal looked good and I'd like to see it completed... I always felt like it was somewhat of a ploy to keep other casinos out of Florida though... we want some agreement to pay us mass amounts of money if you allow other casinos in the state because... they can't compete.

While competing with Vegas for casino tourism would be tough, Florida should be large enough and popular enough to allow way more and nicer casinos then a place like, say, Biloxi, and steal all of their non-local business. And I want many casinos, not just one "mega resort", as the areas with them competing tend to offer more things to make it fun.

TWDC is a multi-billion dollar corporation. They know their business and the markets they are in. They also have the funds available to hire outside consultants to look at the impact of gambling on their business. If they were in a position to make more money with gambling around they would be backing it (at least privately) or at the worst not pushing against it. If they are spending money lobbying to prevent gambling I am sure they have reports and models that back up their position. Companies don’t just spend lobbying money on a whim or based on assumptions without support.

While I don't doubt Disney knows their market, even if the consultants say that gambling will bring in more tourists and could increase overall revenue and profits, Disney could still have plenty of reasons to be against it. Its bringing competition closer, which typically does help everyone, but does require the incumbents to take more risk, making more investments, and to keep up with the competition. Its a lot less risky to not have them in town and control as many variables to your own business if you can.

If megacasinos enter Orlando, Disney's going to have to stay on their A game to compete with them, even if it allows them to make more money. If they don't, Disney likely can get away with their B game and still make a ton of money.

I'm a big believer that right now the Orlando market is starving for more tourist attractions:
- A thrill park, which has been proposed a couple times now and Universal has successfully fended it off
- Another water park to replace Wet N Wild, Volcano Bay has shown the demand is there
- Probably another kid friendly park as Universal doesn't seem to compete as well with the younger age group. Legoland Florida has managed to compete really well in this field with an absolutely terrible location.
- 5 star hotels

If casino resorts come, they'll have the money and risk tolerance to make at least 2 or 3 of those items happen. And Disney doesn't want to compete with that, even if there is a potential for them to make more money overall. And, if, god forbid, some safety/security disaster happens at one of these, it could devastate Disney, not a risk that they want.

 

[larryz]

They just don't want people betting on what part of Illuminations will fail or go wrong on a nightly basis.

$50 on the globe opening, but the torch not raising or shooting fireworks tonight, please.

Maybe that's the new attraction opening in the UK pavilion -- "The London Bookie Experience"...

no endorsement intended or implied. your mileage may vary. suggested serving only.

 

[GoofGoof]

Maybe that's the new attraction opening in the UK pavilion -- "The London Bookie Experience"...

no endorsement intended or implied. your mileage may vary. suggested serving only.

@ford91exploder always said EPCOT was eventually going to be turned into a casino. Maybe this is the first step

 

[21stamps]

Have they actually started building that expansion? I was there a little over a year ago, and at the Tampa one probably 9 months ago, so I'm basing it on that (and my previous visits are a few years prior, not single visits to either one)

And just because I believe they currently aren't good enough to really attract people from out of state doesn't mean they WON'T be good enough to in the future if they make improvements. The proposal looked good and I'd like to see it completed... I always felt like it was somewhat of a ploy to keep other casinos out of Florida though... we want some agreement to pay us mass amounts of money if you allow other casinos in the state because... they can't compete.

While competing with Vegas for casino tourism would be tough, Florida should be large enough and popular enough to allow way more and nicer casinos then a place like, say, Biloxi, and steal all of their non-local business. And I want many casinos, not just one "mega resort", as the areas with them competing tend to offer more things to make it fun.

While I don't doubt Disney knows their market, even if the consultants say that gambling will bring in more tourists and could increase overall revenue and profits, Disney could still have plenty of reasons to be against it. Its bringing competition closer, which typically does help everyone, but does require the incumbents to take more risk, making more investments, and to keep up with the competition. Its a lot less risky to not have them in town and control as many variables to your own business if you can.

If megacasinos enter Orlando, Disney's going to have to stay on their A game to compete with them, even if it allows them to make more money. If they don't, Disney likely can get away with their B game and still make a ton of money.

I'm a big believer that right now the Orlando market is starving for more tourist attractions:
- A thrill park, which has been proposed a couple times now and Universal has successfully fended it off
- Another water park to replace Wet N Wild, Volcano Bay has shown the demand is there
- Probably another kid friendly park as Universal doesn't seem to compete as well with the younger age group. Legoland Florida has managed to compete really well in this field with an absolutely terrible location.
- 5 star hotels

If casino resorts come, they'll have the money and risk tolerance to make at least 2 or 3 of those items happen. And Disney doesn't want to compete with that, even if there is a potential for them to make more money overall. And, if, god forbid, some safety/security disaster happens at one of these, it could devastate Disney, not a risk that they want.

As far as I know it’s supposed to be completed by next year. I watched how fast it was built the first time, I have no doubts of their timeline.
They’re already attracting many out of state and international travelers.. neither the original nor the expansion were built for locals as the main focus.

ETA- sorry, full completion date is 2019. This is directly from their website.

Here’s status on Paradise from March 2017 -

http://www.southflorida.com/restaur...-newsletter-hard-rock-20170331-htmlstory.html

Mass exodus at Hard Rock: Soon after opening in 2005, the outdoor bazaar of clubs, restaurants, bars and stores known as the Paradise Shops at the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino near Hollywood became the hottest spot in South Florida, with tens of thousands streaming through on weekend nights. Now it's a ghost town. Everything will be closed by March 31, the Seminole Tribe says, except for the Hard Rock Live concert venue. Hooters, Martorano's, Bongos, Murphy's Law Irish Pub, The Improv, Wet Willie's, Kilwin's -- all gone. The complex awaits the wrecking ball as the tribe clears the land for its proposed guitar-shaped tower addition, gambling maven Nick Sortal reports for Miami.com. In its place, supposedly by 2019, an indoor plaza with shops and restaurants that will be more like high-end Las Vegas resorts.

 

[ford91exploder]

@ford91exploder always said EPCOT was eventually going to be turned into a casino. Maybe this is the first step

 

[ford91exploder]

@ford91exploder always said EPCOT was eventually going to be turned into a casino. Maybe this is the first step

 

[ford91exploder]

Have they actually started building that expansion? I was there a little over a year ago, and at the Tampa one probably 9 months ago, so I'm basing it on that (and my previous visits are a few years prior, not single visits to either one)

And just because I believe they currently aren't good enough to really attract people from out of state doesn't mean they WON'T be good enough to in the future if they make improvements. The proposal looked good and I'd like to see it completed... I always felt like it was somewhat of a ploy to keep other casinos out of Florida though... we want some agreement to pay us mass amounts of money if you allow other casinos in the state because... they can't compete.

While competing with Vegas for casino tourism would be tough, Florida should be large enough and popular enough to allow way more and nicer casinos then a place like, say, Biloxi, and steal all of their non-local business. And I want many casinos, not just one "mega resort", as the areas with them competing tend to offer more things to make it fun.

While I don't doubt Disney knows their market, even if the consultants say that gambling will bring in more tourists and could increase overall revenue and profits, Disney could still have plenty of reasons to be against it. Its bringing competition closer, which typically does help everyone, but does require the incumbents to take more risk, making more investments, and to keep up with the competition. Its a lot less risky to not have them in town and control as many variables to your own business if you can.

If megacasinos enter Orlando, Disney's going to have to stay on their A game to compete with them, even if it allows them to make more money. If they don't, Disney likely can get away with their B game and still make a ton of money.

I'm a big believer that right now the Orlando market is starving for more tourist attractions:
- A thrill park, which has been proposed a couple times now and Universal has successfully fended it off
- Another water park to replace Wet N Wild, Volcano Bay has shown the demand is there
- Probably another kid friendly park as Universal doesn't seem to compete as well with the younger age group. Legoland Florida has managed to compete really well in this field with an absolutely terrible location.
- 5 star hotels

If casino resorts come, they'll have the money and risk tolerance to make at least 2 or 3 of those items happen. And Disney doesn't want to compete with that, even if there is a potential for them to make more money overall. And, if, god forbid, some safety/security disaster happens at one of these, it could devastate Disney, not a risk that they want.

A Orlando megaresort would be new and fresh and probably have thousands of rooms and convention space, Disney's convention business would vanish overnight.

Plus Disney would need to compete again something they have largely forgotten how to do.

No more corners cut to make the financials look better now they would be forced to compete on amenities and service

 

[21stamps]

A Orlando megaresort would be new and fresh and probably have thousands of rooms and convention space, Disney's convention business would vanish overnight.

Plus Disney would need to compete again something they have largely forgotten how to do.

No more corners cut to make the financials look better now they would be forced to compete on amenities and service

I don’t know if it’s that dire.. but it would be competition, especially to Disney Springs. People aren’t grasping how much HR Hollywood changed things in SoFla.
Prior to 2005 all “sought after” hotels and nightlife was East of Federal Highway.
Hard Rock was built near the turnpike. At no point, not even before table games, was that hotel complex ever supported by “just locals”.
It was immediately popular and became even more so after the table games finally arrived.

I personally hate that the Seminoles have almost complete control over who can do what in Florida, and where these type of resorts can be located. Bring in some competition!!! Open the market!

 

[Cesar R M]

What a surprise with gaming many adult visitors will skip the Disney experience entirely.

Actually.. I'm ok with Disney banning gambling. Gambling just attract crime like nothing.

 

[JoeCamel]

Actually.. I'm ok with Disney banning gambling. Gambling just attract crime like nothing.

So I guess every Publix and Circle K in the southeast is a crime hotspot? They all offer gambling.

 

[AEfx]

So I guess every Publix and Circle K in the southeast is a crime hotspot? They all offer gambling.

Only if there is a Waffle House in the vicinity.

 

[RollerCoaster]

It's inevitable that Disney will eventually turn one of the parks into an adult entertainment complex which will include gaming, Most likely EPCOT.

However until then Disney will fight tooth and claw to prevent anyone else from gaining the first mover advantage in the FL gaming market. Right now Disney owns the FL Govt.

Allowing in one or more of the big gaming companies would mean the possibility of being outbid for legislative goodies and Disney will never let that happen especially with the changes in Anaheim where Anaheim holds the whip hand for the first time in
decades.

You are sorely mistaken! Your could not be more wrong in what you write.

Disney ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT want to be involved with gambling or entertainment associated with it. There is no evidence of being able to successfully mix adult gaming and entertainment with family entertainment. In fact the examples of failure in trying to do so are abundant. Las Vegas in the early 90s desperately tried to make their offerings more family friendly and the attempt failed miserably! Do you remember the MGM Grand Adventures theme park- it failed! Treasure Island tried to be more family friendly, now they're trying to pitch the sexy and bad boy image of Pirates instead.

Mixing gambling into a theme park? Yeah...you're never going to run a successful casino by charging an admission fee either. Ask a gambler to give you a $100+ just for the right to play and you'll see what happens.

This has nothing to do with political favors either. Gambling operations already exist in Florida. Do I need to remind you that a Hard Rock Hotel & Casino is down the road in Tampa.

And lastly gambling doesn't compete with amusement parks. If there were a casino in Orlando I highly doubt it would take away business from the theme parks. Hard core gamers probably aren't going to Disney parks to begin with. Vice versa most visiting Disney probably aren't going to go drop a couple of hundred dollars into slots after a day at Magic Kingdom.

The real objection from Disney about gambling is all of the negative connotations associated with casinos and gambling. The only place in the United States where gambling is at all classy is Las Vegas. Have you been to Atlantic City to see what a dump that has turned into? The spattering of Indian casinos across the country, very few are really that nice. Most are associated with addicts, crime and problems.

Disney's objection is simple. It doesn't align with the family friendly image they created that put Orlando on the map!

 

[21stamps]

You are sorely mistaken! Your could not be more wrong in what you write.

Disney ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT want to be involved with gambling or entertainment associated with it. There is no evidence of being able to successfully mix adult gaming and entertainment with family entertainment. In fact the examples of failure in trying to do so are abundant. Las Vegas in the early 90s desperately tried to make their offerings more family friendly and the attempt failed miserably! Do you remember the MGM Grand Adventures theme park- it failed! Treasure Island tried to be more family friendly, now they're trying to pitch the sexy and bad boy image of Pirates instead.

Mixing gambling into a theme park? Yeah...you're never going to run a successful casino by charging an admission fee either. Ask a gambler to give you a $100+ just for the right to play and you'll see what happens.

This has nothing to do with political favors either. Gambling operations already exist in Florida. Do I need to remind you that a Hard Rock Hotel & Casino is down the road in Tampa.

And lastly gambling doesn't compete with amusement parks. If there were a casino in Orlando I highly doubt it would take away business from the theme parks. Hard core gamers probably aren't going to Disney parks to begin with. Vice versa most visiting Disney probably aren't going to go drop a couple of hundred dollars into slots after a day at Magic Kingdom.

The real objection from Disney about gambling is all of the negative connotations associated with casinos and gambling. The only place in the United States where gambling is at all classy is Las Vegas. Have you been to Atlantic City to see what a dump that has turned into? The spattering of Indian casinos across the country, very few are really that nice. Most are associated with addicts, crime and problems.

Disney's objection is simple. It doesn't align with the family friendly image they created that put Orlando on the map!

Atlantis Paradise Island.

I think that may rank as family friendly.. just a little....
I’d say Atlantis and Disney share many patrons.. and many will choose one over the other during the year. Different experiences for sure, but similar price points and geared towards families.