Disney fighting hard to keep gambling out of Florida

[EvilChameleon]

They just don't want people betting on what part of Illuminations will fail or go wrong on a nightly basis.

$50 on the globe opening, but the torch not raising or shooting fireworks tonight, please.

 

[lentesta]

You got a copy of page 23 on?

Does the doc reference anything about California or Florida? Or why the study was undertaken? I know it's Eisner not Iger but it'd be interesting to see what was going though Mike E's mind at the time.

Ehhhh. Let me see if it’s online at UCF’s Buzz Price Archives.

 

[ford91exploder]

I get that Disney doesn't want the competition of a casino on I-Drive or in Maitland or Altamonte Springs, or anywhere else near their property. Got it....and I somewhat agree that casino's near or around Disney are probably not a great idea.

What I don't get is how Disney perceives they can claim a moral high-ground and influence/lobby against such establishments in Miami, Palm Beach, Tampa, Daytona, Destin and in short other areas of Florida that don't rely on the economic benefits that Disney brings.

The original proposal was not to create a Las Vegas Strip type of an environment where you would line up casino after casino. Rather, it was to allocate about half a dozen licenses for standalone types of mega-resorts that offered casino gaming. If I remember correctly there was to be a buffer of about 50-75 miles that would separate these resorts. If Miami or Jacksonville, or Pensacola for that matter, wanted to offer incentives to an MGM or a Steve Wynn to invest in their communities - what right does Disney have to stop that? The fear that some would make the trip from Disney to visit these establishments?

The entirely rational fear is that many adult couples will make the trip to the casino instead of WDW

 

[UCF]

Oh, I thought you were talking about Tampa and Hollywood.

I don't compare Vegas to the Florida casinos because they aren't supposed to be the same.
Vegas doesn't have a beach.. they have a strip of casinos and entertainment in the dessert.

Florida has a strip of entertainment hundreds of miles long on the coasts. The casinos there just add to it.
Hard Rock Hollywood, by far the best casino complex in Florida, is all the way out by the Everglades.. it was built so quickly.. and then outdoor venues expanded. The clubs have been extremely popular. People vacation there, but also aren't too far from the beach, so for most it's not a gambling only vacation- which contributes to the entire economy.

Florida shouldn't, wouldn't, and definitely does not need a Vegas set up. They have Miami Beach.lol

The Seminole casinos suck compared to basically every other casino I've been to. They satisfy some of the desire for people who already like the gamble, but I doubt many people from out of state are going to their properties. Competition is necessary, in close proximity, to really have great resorts, because they'll strive to be better then the others. When Universal wasn't doing well, WDW was sitting without making too many improvements. Universal's expansion is driving WDW to do one of its largest expansion ever now and clean up its act.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

Hard Rock has figured out how to incorporate the 2 perfectly. You can have entertainment without gambling while there, or you can gamble, or you can do both.

Listen to yourself and think about it a minute...

 

[21stamps]

Listen to yourself and think about it a minute...

Have you been? You don't have to gamble at all at a Hard Rock complex. Same as Atlantis, or a cruise ship.. there's a long list of places that have casinos and entertainment.. and gambling is not required or even needed.

The Seminole casinos suck compared to basically every other casino I've been to. They satisfy some of the desire for people who already like the gamble, but I doubt many people from out of state are going to their properties. Competition is necessary, in close proximity, to really have great resorts, because they'll strive to be better then the others. When Universal wasn't doing well, WDW was sitting without making too many improvements. Universal's expansion is driving WDW to do one of its largest expansion ever now and clean up its act.

You should tell the Seminoles to halt their Hollywood expansion.

 

[WDWTank]

Two words - Regulatory Capitalism. For those interested

http://johnbraithwaite.com/regulatory-capitalism/

Thanks

 

[WDWTank]

Or they could fix the broken effects on Kali River Rapids with that money!

 

[AEfx]

You got a copy of page 23 on?

Does the doc reference anything about California or Florida? Or why the study was undertaken? I know it's Eisner not Iger but it'd be interesting to see what was going though Mike E's mind at the time.

I would be willing to bet a Mickey bar that when you look at the dates - that it has something to do with research regarding the formation of DCL.

 

[AEfx]

Or they could fix the broken effects on Kali River Rapids with that money!

Oh for crying out loud...

This isn't money coming from freaking attraction budgets.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Imma leave this here.

View attachment 238016

Not super important, but Buzz Price was a big part of research for Disney since back when Walt was still

alive.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

The only thing that was ever remotely related to having Disney mix it up with Vegas was a planned Hotel out a Disneyland Paris. https://www.designingdisney.com/content/disney-las-vegas-–-euro-disney-hotel-never-was

 

[21stamps]

I agree with this. I don’t think more casinos in FL will be a big driver for overall tourism. They will mostly canabalize existing entertainment options and will have the most appeal to locals. A large portion of states now have some form of legalized gambling so not many people will travel out of state just to gamble. The biggest loss for a company like Disney or Universal is their guests (tourists and/or locals) leaving to spend money at a casino instead of spending it at Disney Springs or City Walk or in a park. The closer the casinos the better chance people will go.

I know a lot of people here think that only locals in Florida use the casinos there.. but it's not, it's actually a huge draw for tourism, jobs, and state revenue.

Hard Rock Hollywood alone is doing a 1.8 billion dollar expansion, including a helipad for guests who choose to arrive by private helicopter.

That's not just for locals.. they're trying to compete with Atlantis.

Companies have been trying for years to get in on Florida casinos.. they want to see them spread more than the oversaturated SoFla market.

Oh, and they'll have bungalows lol

 

[GoofGoof]

I know a lot of people here think that only locals in Florida use the casinos there.. but it's not, it's actually a huge draw for tourism, jobs, and state revenue.

Hard Rock Hollywood alone is doing a 1.8 billion dollar expansion, including a helipad for guests who choose to arrive by private helicopter.

That's not just for locals.. they're trying to compete with Atlantis.

Companies have been trying for years to get in on Florida casinos.. they want to see them spread more than the oversaturated SoFla market.

Oh, and they'll have bungalows lol
View attachment 238130

I don’t doubt that tourists visit the casino while they are in FL for other reasons but I am skeptical that many people plan a trip to FL to visit those casinos. I went to a casino in Milwaukee when I was there, but it certainly wasn’t the reason for my trip. There are casinos in most states now if you have the gambling bug and if people jump on a plane to visit a casino, Vegas is much, much more appealing.

 

[21stamps]

I don’t doubt that tourists visit the casino while they are in FL for other reasons but I am skeptical that many people plan a trip to FL to visit those casinos. I went to a casino in Milwaukee when I was there, but it certainly wasn’t the reason for my trip. There are casinos in most states now if you have the gambling bug and if people jump on a plane to visit a casino, Vegas is much, much more appealing.

People gotta stop thinking Vegas. Vegas is Vegas. People choose the Bahamas and Florida every day over Vegas.. because they want the beach. Those same people will probably go to Vegas for a weekend or maybe even a week sometimes.. but they're very different vacations.

Think more along the lines of Atlantis.. that's what casino hotels want to do in Florida.
Hard Rock has been attracting tourists since day 1.. and it's in West Hollywood.. a similar setting on/closer to the beach would be a gold mine if it's ever allowed.

Sorry, I should have explained better.. it's not 'just a hotel/casino'
This (and more will be added after the new expansion is finished) is what I don't think Disney wants to see in Orlando-

But it's been wildly successful for more than a decade now in a certain part of SoFla that used to be a place where no one wanted to visit.
Other parts of Florida deserve the same.

 

[GoofGoof]

People gotta stop thinking Vegas. Vegas is Vegas. People choose the Bahamas and Florida every day over Vegas.. because they want the beach. Those same people will probably go to Vegas for a weekend or maybe even a week sometimes.. but they're very different vacations.

Think more along the lines of Atlantis.. that's what casino hotels want to do in Florida.
Hard Rock has been attracting tourists since day 1.. and it's in West Hollywood.. a similar setting on/closer to the beach would be a gold mine if it's ever allowed.

Sorry, I'll expand.. it's not 'just a hotel/casino'
This is what I don't think Disney wants to see in Orlando-
View attachment 238141 View attachment 238142


But it's been wildly successful for more than a decade now in a certain part of SoFla that used to be a place where no one wanted to visit.
Other parts of Florida deserve the same.

I agree 100% that Vegas is Vegas and casinos in FL will never be that. In my post that you quoted I said that I didn’t believe that these casinos would drive overall tourism in FL and I stick by that statement. They provide an alternative form of entertainment for locals and tourists who are already there but they aren’t going to draw a whole lot of unique visitors that would increase overall tourism. WDW drives tourism, Universal drives tourism, the beaches drive tourism. There are large casinos that are wildly successful in PA now too, but they don’t draw unique visitors to the state (unless you count someone driving over from Delaware).

 

[21stamps]

I agree 100% that Vegas is Vegas and casinos in FL will never be that. In my post that you quoted I said that I didn’t believe that these casinos would drive overall tourism in FL and I stick by that statement. They provide an alternative form of entertainment for locals and tourists who are already there but they aren’t going to draw a whole lot of unique visitors that would increase overall tourism. WDW drives tourism, Universal drives tourism, the beaches drive tourism. There are large casinos that are wildly successful in PA now too, but they don’t draw unique visitors to the state (unless you count someone driving over from Delaware).

What I'm explaining is West Hollywood Florida now has tourism, a lot of it. It's been a huge benefit to the economy there, and to the billions of dollars that the state is receiving from it.

Atlantis blows away any casino in Las Vegas in my mind.. and I'm a gambler.lol. Hard Rock Hollywood is preferable to me as well.
It depends what you're looking for in a vacation.. if you want the ocean then you aren't going to Vegas for a week. There are so many people who want to gamble but also enjoy doing other things.. and not just shows and shopping. The hotels themselves have huge entertainment complexes and many dining choices on property. It's a destination hotel but in an area where you can experience much more. Also FAMILY destinations.

This has been a hot debate in Florida for years now.. companies try to come in.. the power of the Indians keeps them out. Disney can join the bandwagon of "no expansion".. but everyone has taken notice of what the Seminoles have accomplished.. they'll get in sooner or later.

Out of curiosity I just checked Trip Advisor.. the hotel is #3 in Hollywood.. a city who has hotel after hotel along a boardwalk and a beach.. Hard Rock is a good 25- 30 minutes without traffic to the beach.. yet still beats out many of the beach resorts. That's almost unheard of with SoFla tourism.lol


Anyway, just wanted to explain what happened in that area.. and on a lessor scale in Tampa. Both will be getting expansions.. but it would be nice and an economy boost if other areas in Florida could get these type of resort complexes (Or something similar) as well.

 

[GoofGoof]

What I'm explaining is West Hollywood Florida now has tourism, a lot of it. It's been a huge benefit to the economy there, and to the billions of dollars that the state is receiving from it.

Atlantis blows away any casino in Las Vegas in my mind.. and I'm a gambler.lol. Hard Rock Hollywood is preferable to me as well.
It depends what you're looking for in a vacation.. if you want the ocean then you aren't going to Vegas for a week. There are so many people who want to gamble but also enjoy doing other things.. and not just shows and shopping. The hotels themselves have huge entertainment complexes and many dining choices on property. It's a destination hotel but in an area where you can experience much more.

This has been a hot debate in Florida for years now.. companies try to come in.. the power of the Indians keeps them out. Disney can join the bandwagon of "no expansion".. but everyone has taken notice of what the Seminoles have accomplished.. they'll get in sooner or later.

I’m not trying to put down what they have built there. I haven’t been there but it looks nice and the one in Tampa was pretty decent. From an economic prospective it’s not driving overall tourism to the state of FL. It may be taking people away from staying in other locations in the state but someone from say Ohio or PA or NY or most other states aren’t going to book a trip just to visit the Hard Rock Casino to gamble. They will book a trip to visit a theme park or the beach. That’s not saying the Casino isn’t great or wildly successful.

As far as Atlantis goes that’s a mega resort not just a casino. They have so much more to offer than gambling and something like 4,000 hotel rooms. Cruise ships dock to allow customers to visit the water park area with day passes. Hard Rock isn’t really in the same ballpark as that.

 

[21stamps]

I’m not trying to put down what they have built there. I haven’t been there but it looks nice and the one in Tampa was pretty decent. From an economic prospective it’s not driving overall tourism to the state of FL. It may be taking people away from staying in other locations in the state but someone from say Ohio or PA or NY or most other states aren’t going to book a trip just to visit the Hard Rock Casino to gamble. They will book a trip to visit a theme park or the beach. That’s not saying the Casino isn’t great or wildly successful.

As far as Atlantis goes that’s a mega resort not just a casino. They have so much more to offer than gambling and something like 4,000 hotel rooms. Cruise ships dock to allow customers to visit the water park area with day passes. Hard Rock isn’t really in the same ballpark as that.

That's what I'm trying to explain to you.. I've been to both more times than I can count.. Atlantis has expanded over the years as far as rooms.. I won't even start complaining about that and the stupid day passes.. but that resort started with the Royal Towers and the beach club.. it has more similarities to Hard Rock Hollywood than you think. Entertainment, dining, etc.. the difference is you can dock your yacht at Atlantis.. and HRHollywood is near a swamp with a drive to the beach.
But, that is who the Seminoles are trying to compete with.

Florida gambling and casino hotels can't be a "major" tourism drive now because the bulk of it is in SoFla, who already has major tourism.. And mainly, because of the high restrictions that Florida has on gaming and who is allowed to have what.. but if they allowed it to expand then it could be absolutely wonderful for the state.

 

[21stamps]

If you're bored and feel like reading.. this article will give just a little insight into the mess that is Florida gaming.lol.

It's so heavily restricted, and what is allowed is dominated by one tribe.

I get that Disney World doesn't want Hollywood style complexes on their doorstep.. but I don't know why they are fighting for this.. I never paid attention to what Disney was doing in the previous battles.. I wonder if they lobbied against it back then as well.

http://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article159823589.html