Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Ah, but they ARE adding capacity. Remember, the meet & greet pavilion next door. That's going to eat up people as well.
M&G's are well known to have terrible capacity due to the very nature of them. Speculation on the M&G has come up in this thread before showing how bad it could be.
The meet and greet.... Hmmm. Assume 3 rooms to visit our friends in. Assume 2 meets/minute per room, so 6 per minute. (Some serious Love and Shove.) So thats 360/hr.... Assume 12 hours and 4320 per day.

Dios Mio.... As the two together? 15,120/day.
What Frozen needed imo is a ride that could handle around 2,000 guests per hour.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Because, I think we can all agree, Frozen is a definite draw in terms of attractions. That's something that absolutely WILL be promoted in advertising as much as possible once the ride opens. More to the point, people on social media who don't even care about park stuff are much more likely to pick up and run with talking about a Frozen attraction, thereby generating free publicity, than they are Maelstrom 2.0.
Not everything can be a marquee attraction, especially when the design can't handle such a function.

Ah, but they ARE adding capacity. Remember, the meet & greet pavilion next door. That's going to eat up people as well.
Meet and greets do not "eat up people."
 

Bartattack

Well-Known Member
The family would have spent money for food regardless of what park they went to. So where is the actual (additional) profit in that scenario?

Maybe that family will spend an extra day to visit Epcot now... maybe otherwise they might skip epcot...
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
Thats a lot for the company to bank on. The possibility that a family would add an entire extra day just because of the Frozen attraction seems like a stretch.
With how long the lines will be they would need an extra day for it ;)
Or, if both the ride and M&G are made top-tier FP options, potentially making families book in EP over more than one day. But that could also leave people cutting short (or skipping entirety) visits in the other parks....
 

articos

Well-Known Member
Is it simply motivated by attendance figures? Are they willing to create a bit of an operational nightmare in an effort for higher gate clicks that would equate to a bump in sales? I only ask because when I think "why would they do this?", merchandise sales come to mind and also with having a larger draw to Epcot there will be a boost in food and beverage sales as well. Aside from those two, the only other benefit I can see (from a company perspective) would be attendance numbers that could be waived around in a boardroom.
Maybe that family will spend an extra day to visit Epcot now... maybe otherwise they might skip epcot...
All theme park companies look at a number of factors before deciding to add or remove anything. In this case, it's partially motivated by attendance. It's also motivated by a request to capitalize on an IP quickly, efficiently and cheaply. Also because Maelstrom was scheduled to go offline anyways for a refurb. Among many other factors. The company doesn't care if there are lines out the door, until it starts to translate into real negative guest feedback. Lines look good. They make people think something is worth doing. If a line is too long, people will simply do other things within that park, and Epcot is a park that can absorb a lot of people and not feel crowded. Ops may have said "we can handle this" and it's to be determined whether that's the case. There are so many different factors that go into these decisions, and the company will weigh numbers and surveys and get opinions from execs who may or may not be getting real knowledge from their staff down the line. Whereas the people here will just look at it all from a capacity and length of line standpoint and go "this is gonna be a disaster, let's get the popcorn". Which may be the case. But the company doesn't think that way, and they also look at things in 5 and 10 year increments. Will have to wait and see. :)

As to what Bartattack said, that's also an excellent and accurate point that is being taken into consideration when trying to help spread guests around the property. Plus one more day on property because the guest may want to go to Epcot now with Frozen is one day they may not have to go the USF or IOA.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Lol, the M&Gs only get 300-400/hr.

Snow White got 1,100/hr compared to Princess Fairytale Hall's 400/hr.

Frozen needs a 2,500-3,000/hr E-ticket.
Unless.. What if they expect the frozenmania interest to fade( by a lot) and quickly?.
using Frozen as a temporal patch until the "heavy hitters" are online and operational (aka Avatar and Star Wars)
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Thats a lot for the company to bank on. The possibility that a family would add an entire extra day just because of the Frozen attraction seems like a stretch.

I dunno...stranger things have happened. If that's the big thing your kid wants to see, yeah, I can see it.

I think it actually may be "a day" - not an "extra day" - when you look at the attendance of MK, which is roughly double of MK, it's clear that a lot of folks just aren't going to Epcot at all. Particularly WS - where the "kids" activities of making paper plate masks are really not that compelling. So instead of popping in to do Nemo and The Land, maybe Imagination - and leaving, they actually will spend the day at the park now.

There certainly were other ways to do this, and of course, the capacity issue remains a huge deal - but I really do think the internal strategy was to get folks to spend at least a full-day in Epcot, which they don't seem to be doing nearly as much. I'd guess that families with little kids are the group that goes/stays the least.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Lol, the M&Gs only get 300-400/hr.

Snow White got 1,100/hr compared to Princess Fairytale Hall's 400/hr.

Frozen needs a 2,500-3,000/hr E-ticket.
Yes, but, the capacity of Snow White and the actual ridership may very well have been two different things. I don't remember Snow White as being a major draw (I could be wrong), if so it may have just canceled itself out with equal usage. By the time they get Frozen done, the majority of the current little girls that worship the franchise now will be in college and the audience will have matured beyond it. Hard to say right now, but, I guess we will find out. One thing I do know about little girls, is that like big girls, they can be very fickle. ;):joyfull:
Don't shoot me, it was a joke.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
They needed another theater along with that third for Soarin'.

Fixing Imagination, Energy and reopening Wonders of Life would help out, too.

My hunch is they will remove the reversing portion of the ride. That and 2 load platforms would greatly increase throughput.

I am afraid Imagination and Energy will stay as is until something new is added besides a Soarin expansion. WoL 2.0 makes more sense everyday. :geek:
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
I'm a little confused at the math on the M&G. I assume the average group has four guests. And that M&Gs average one group per minute. With three rooms, that's 12 guests/minute or 720/hour. Still low, but not 300 like some mention here. With FEA, the pavilion can process 1600 guests per hour. Not awful, at least after the first couple years. For 2016 and 2017, we all have brains here. Just like 7DMT, Fastpass it once or twice for your trip and move on elsewhere. The intense crowds for this ride should have little impact on folks here. Let the crazies who will wait in a 3-hour line enjoy the finer details of Wandering Oaken's.
 

Crazydisneyfanluke

Well-Known Member
I'm a little confused at the math on the M&G. I assume the average group has four guests. And that M&Gs average one group per minute. With three rooms, that's 12 guests/minute or 720/hour. Still low, but not 300 like some mention here. With FEA, the pavilion can process 1600 guests per hour. Not awful, at least after the first couple years. For 2016 and 2017, we all have brains here. Just like 7DMT, Fastpass it once or twice for your trip and move on elsewhere. The intense crowds for this ride should have little impact on folks here. Let the crazies who will wait in a 3-hour line enjoy the finer details of Wandering Oaken's.
A lot of people spend more than 1 minute for each character.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I'm a little confused at the math on the M&G. I assume the average group has four guests. And that M&Gs average one group per minute. With three rooms, that's 12 guests/minute or 720/hour. Still low, but not 300 like some mention here. With FEA, the pavilion can process 1600 guests per hour. Not awful, at least after the first couple years. For 2016 and 2017, we all have brains here. Just like 7DMT, Fastpass it once or twice for your trip and move on elsewhere. The intense crowds for this ride should have little impact on folks here. Let the crazies who will wait in a 3-hour line enjoy the finer details of Wandering Oaken's.
For what I've seen, the average doesn't seem to be 4 (in my experience at WDW).
more like 3.
Families of 4? maybe.. but I seen that theres a lot of groups of 2 (usually teenagers).
 

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