Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

Mike S

Well-Known Member
No, I'm talking about the 12-year-olds that are screaming about Epcot in ruins now.

Honestly if the least popular attraction in Epcot being changed ruins Epcot for you, you have not been paying any attention in the past 10 years.
It's just the latest thing to happen. For me it hurts a little more because of how I've liked the ride since I was a kid but that's my own opinion. I also have little to no memory of other Epcot rides such as Horizons and World of Motion so it was only later after watching videos that I've grown appreciation for what once was (even the original Imagination to some extent). Maelstrom is the first one to shut down where I've been fully aware of what is happening.
Remember the Villains Night disaster? I hope the opening of this farce in that little area of WS will make Villains Night look like a Sunday picnic. I hope TDO has to give lots and lots of refunds and handle tons of guest complaints when it's too crowded and crazy for little Susie to get a pic with Elsa without waiting in line for 8 hours. You know that whatever TDO builds will be on the cheap. As for Norway, I'm not surprised it didn't want to kick in to keep the pavilion Norwegian. Disney isn't Walt's company any more. The good will and reputation for quality that he created is gone now; only greedy CEOs with a passion for "franchises" and "brands" remain. It's like when the hyenas took over the pride lands. And to top it all off, Disney offers a special "Maelstrom" t-shirt to all of the suckers who liked the ride - it was determined to suck every last drop out of that ride before destroying it.

Walt's creative legacy is now a prisoner to corporate greed:

images


And it's been obvious for some time that the suits have been snorting something. But hell, Mickey, they gotta scrimp on attractions and milk the rubes dry. The good stuff's not cheap!
Guess they got what they wanted from me since I bought the shirt. I don't regret it though.
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
It's just the latest thing to happen. For me it hurts a little more because of how I've liked the ride since I was a kid but that's my own opinion. I also have little to no memory of other Epcot rides such as Horizons and World of Motion so it was only later after watching videos that I've grown appreciation for what once was (even the original Imagination to some extent). Maelstrom is the first one to shut down where I've been fully aware of what is happening.

Guess they got what they wanted from me since I bought the shirt. I don't regret it though.

It's a cool looking shirt. I did not buy one but I like the way it looks.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
It's just the latest thing to happen. For me it hurts a little more because of how I've liked the ride since I was a kid but that's my own opinion. I also have little to no memory of other Epcot rides such as Horizons and World of Motion so it was only later after watching videos that I've grown appreciation for what once was (even the original Imagination to some extent). Maelstrom is the first one to shut down where I've been fully aware of what is happening.

Guess they got what they wanted from me since I bought the shirt. I don't regret it though.

Well, it's something to remember the ride by, I guess. My uncle got his shirt yesterday. I won't be ordering one myself. Maybe I'll regret that, but right now I'm too p*ssed off.
 

cw1982

Well-Known Member
I think part of the issue is in the old days you saw things at Epcot you could not see anywhere else, that captured and kept peoples attention. Now with the internet that is simply not true anymore. It's a tougher market to grab peoples attention these days.

If Epcot does not change to fit into the society that goes to it it will become irrelevant IMO.

This is another part of what troubles me. Basically, TDO is going to have all kinds of happy guests because more and more people are starting to value education less and less. The fact that TDO doesn't care about edutainment is indicative of the fact that they see this trend and they see that people are becoming more and more of the mindset that learning and vacation must be two different things. I see this all the time at work. Heck, we're a month into the school year, and I still have parents arguing with me about why their darling angels shouldn't get a zero for summer reading, since it was to be completed while school was not in session (never mind that I gave them time after the school year started to get it turned in without penalty) and took away from summer vacation. Apparently, it's okay to ask me to spend my summer preparing for their children, but it's not okay to ask their children to read one measly book.

The thing is, though, not all families feel this way. Several of my honors students have parents who are pushing them to read The Odyssey in its entirety, despite the fact that I'm only teaching certain excerpts due to time constraints. I've had other parents to ask what they can do to help their kids to better absorb what we're doing in class when they're at home together. Some of my neighbors, who do not work in education, ask me and other teachers that are mutual friends for guidance on helping their kids with certain academic struggles on a regular basis, even during the summer.

Unfortunately, in my experience, the ones who don't like the idea of learning away from school tend to be the ones who are most vocal.

I don't think Epcot is conforming to society by "dumbing down" World Showcase, but I do think TDO may be getting the misguided message that this is what society wants, and thus think they are doing the right thing by acting on it.
 

DarthGrady

Active Member
Yeah nobody give a crap about those.

You screaming about all these attractions that nobody ever went to, that just reinforces managements point.

Besides, last I checked the living seas are there. Because in the end, it's all about the fish. There's no real difference between the sea cabs and the current attraction. Both of them take guests through the attraction to see fish.

Figment? That's been a walk on for 20 years. Horizons? I'll give you that one… That was nice attraction. Although the last time I was on it, I was eight years old. World of motion? It may be an unpopular opinion, but test track is a much better choice.

I'd really like to see if you have any numbers that can back up your assertions. Preferably in financials and revenue.

Numbers to back up my assertions? You seem to judge the quality of an attraction by the size of its crowd. That's unfortunate.

Apparently you'd be in good company with the current Disney execs who only care about the almighty dollar. Profit before quality and history, right?

I'm glad they're not all like you, or Carousel of Progress wouldn't still be with us.

In any case, if an attraction isn't performing well it should be improved or renovated. But it's original essence should be preserved. It should not be torn down, or butchered into some cartoon-y abomination.

Also, you totally lost me when you just equated TLS to the current Nemo farce. Were you really typing that with a straight face?
 

BigTxEars

Well-Known Member
This is another part of what troubles me. Basically, TDO is going to have all kinds of happy guests because more and more people are starting to value education less and less. The fact that TDO doesn't care about edutainment is indicative of the fact that they see this trend and they see that people are becoming more and more of the mindset that learning and vacation must be two different things. I see this all the time at work. Heck, we're a month into the school year, and I still have parents arguing with me about why their darling angels shouldn't get a zero for summer reading, since it was to be completed while school was not in session (never mind that I gave them time after the school year started to get it turned in without penalty) and took away from summer vacation. Apparently, it's okay to ask me to spend my summer preparing for their children, but it's not okay to ask their children to read one measly book.

The thing is, though, not all families feel this way. Several of my honors students have parents who are pushing them to read The Odyssey in its entirety, despite the fact that I'm only teaching certain excerpts due to time constraints. I've had other parents to ask what they can do to help their kids to better absorb what we're doing in class when they're at home together. Some of my neighbors, who do not work in education, ask me and other teachers that are mutual friends for guidance on helping their kids with certain academic struggles on a regular basis, even during the summer.

Unfortunately, in my experience, the ones who don't like the idea of learning away from school tend to be the ones who are most vocal.

I don't think Epcot is conforming to society by "dumbing down" World Showcase, but I do think TDO may be getting the misguided message that this is what society wants, and thus think they are doing the right thing by acting on it.

You work with kids, I don't so you have a much more valid opinion on the subject than I do. I just have my own brats to base my judgements on. For them if something grabs their attention and reels them in then there is a good chance that they will follow thru and learn something. But they have to be hooked first. So much more trying to get their attention in the world these days than when I was a kid. I think Epcot can be that hook if used correctly, but I think that hook has to change as the kids do or it will not work.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
Anna and Elsa and their "country" aren't real. And last I checked there weren't any snowmen in Norway that loved summer so much that they sang about it, so what's your point? Heck, even Frosty the Snowman learned his lesson about summer lol.

The only reason Olaf loves summer so much is because that's when his pockets overflow with dollars from Disney's upcharge events!
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Numbers to back up my assertions? You seem to judge the quality of an attraction by the size of its crowd. That's unfortunate.

Apparently you'd be in good company with the current Disney execs who only care about the almighty dollar. Profit before quality and history, right?

I'm glad they're not all like you, or Carousel of Progress wouldn't still be with us.

In any case, if an attraction isn't performing well it should be improved or renovated. But it's original essence should be preserved. It should not be torn down, or butchered into some cartoon-y abomination.



I never said those were quality attractions. They just didn't have widespread appeal and certainly didn't drive attendance. Because whether you like it or not, this is a business. It's a theme park. Parks and resorts are responsible for at least 22% of Disney's profits as of 2012.

As for Carousel of progress? That's one of the original attractions that my father actually saw at the 1964 worlds fair. I wasn't even born then and I'm pretty sure you were even close to being conceived.

All you're doing is regurgitating the talking points of every fanboy out there. You don't have a cohesive argument. It's like the talking points memo excepted Disney style…. Come back when you have something. You can't even back up your argument. Hell, I'm not on your side, and I could back up your argument.

It's a kiddie ride that sadly is getting a cartoon overlay. I'm in less you have $1 billion sitting around, I don't think there's any thing you can do about it.

What is a mirage of a utopia to you is a business to those making the decisions.
 

cw1982

Well-Known Member
I think that hook has to change as the kids do or it will not work.

This is true to an extent. I've been teaching for almost a whole decade, and I've worked in both urban schools and rural ones, and yet I'm able to use the exact same techniques to gain student interest as I have been using across all of those schools for nine years... and considering that I work with high schoolers, who are normally the most difficult to "hook in" and gain their interest, I'd say that your assertion depends on the situation and topic.

Part of the problem is that people often think that kids have to have something familiar to latch on to in order to gain their interest. Often, driving their motivation with curiosity over something new works just as well. WS is full of potential to gain the interest of children, if parents will present it in the right light. But, too often, parents seem to think that education stops with the teacher, and therefore if their kids aren't automatically interested in something outside of school, parents should not make an effort to gain their interest on a subject, when the opposite is true. If parents and others that kids look up to say and do things to motivate kids to be inquisitive and to think about what's around them, kids will thrive when learning opportunities present themselves. No level of edutainment can make a kid want to learn if learning isn't valued at home.

I've said before that Maelstrom definitely needed an update, but there are plenty of ways that the ride could have been updated to bring in new interest in today's children without forcing cartoon characters into it. An updated queue, some more modern animatronics, and an updated sound system, for example, could all work wonders. But like I said, it doesn't stop with WDW or even with teachers. If kids don't have adults around them who see the value in being lifelong learners, adults who are willing to instill that value in their children, then the children will simply not see the value in it, no matter how hard teachers push.
 

PlutoHasFleas

Active Member
Ok, but seriously everyone, if you don't understand how Frozen-mania has cast a spell on Disney decision makers, Google "Frozen sing-a-long DVD".

They are re-releasing the same movie with subtitles and they are going to make a lot of money doing so. It's completely insane! When have we EVER heard of 2+ hour waits for a MEET & GREET?! What powers do these girls truly have?!?
 

FigmentsFangirl

Well-Known Member
This is true to an extent. I've been teaching for almost a whole decade, and I've worked in both urban schools and rural ones, and yet I'm able to use the exact same techniques to gain student interest as I have been using across all of those schools for nine years... and considering that I work with high schoolers, who are normally the most difficult to "hook in" and gain their interest, I'd say that your assertion depends on the situation and topic.

Part of the problem is that people often think that kids have to have something familiar to latch on to in order to gain their interest. Often, driving their motivation with curiosity over something new works just as well. WS is full of potential to gain the interest of children, if parents will present it in the right light. But too often, parents seem to think that education stops with the teacher, and therefore if their kids aren't automatically interested in something outside of school, parents should not make an effort to gain their interest on a subject, when the opposite is true. If parents and others that kids look up to say and do things to motivate kids to be inquisitive and to think about what's around them, kids will thrive when learning opportunities present themselves. No level of edutainment can make a kid want to learn if learning isn't valued at home.

I've said before that Maelstrom definitely needed an update, but there are plenty of ways that the ride could have been updated to bring in new interest in today's children without forcing cartoon characters into it. An updated queue, some more modern animatronics, and an updated sound system, for example, could all work wonders. But like I said, it doesn't stop with WDW or even with teachers. If kids don't have adults around them who see the value in being lifelong learners, adults who are willing to instill that value in their children, then the children will simply not see the value in it, no matter how hard teachers push.
You're a teacher ? COOL! You'ew awesomeness points went up by 100 :)

I think that even though they are keeping the architexture of a location {Italy for example} every time they add or refurb an area. They keep the architexture as to the time period they're trying to represent {In this case I am going to assume 1470 Flornence Italy} or the like. I mean now adays Japan has extreme highrise buildings with some cerimonial houses, but even then, those cerimonial houses are amazingly designed with really cool architexture.

What kind of architexture would you say the Ice Palace from the film was of ? It did not look like anything I know of, countrywise
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Right there IN that stave church building, the insperation behind the film. Add more buildings like it, make a courtyard like Arendelle had at the end of the film, et volia! You have Norway.... mostly.

Just my thought. I'd like to see something to look forwards to.
That just means it is more inspiration, not of the culture. If someone is inspired by John Lasseter to make films they would be in all sorts of hot water claiming their film were made by John Lasseter.

No Walt is not. Walt Disney was long dead and in the ground before the concept of the world showcase even came about.
Not true at all. World Showcase comes from the plans for International Street at Disneyland and the urban core of EPCOT.
 

FigmentsFangirl

Well-Known Member
Ok, but seriously everyone, if you don't understand how Frozen-mania has cast a spell on Disney decision makers, Google "Frozen sing-a-long DVD".

They are re-releasing the same movie with subtitles and they are going to make a lot of money doing so. It's completely insane! When have we EVER heard of 2+ hour waits for a MEET & GREET?! What powers do these girls truly have?!?
Ice, snow, love of summer, love of each other, beauty, one of them is a QUEEN and made her own castle out of ice..... that's all I can really think of. But you pose a good question there.
 

cw1982

Well-Known Member
You're a teacher ? COOL! You'ew awesomeness points went up by 100 :)

I think that even though they are keeping the architexture of a location {Italy for example} every time they add or refurb an area. They keep the architexture as to the time period they're trying to represent {In this case I am going to assume 1470 Flornence Italy} or the like. I mean now adays Japan has extreme highrise buildings with some cerimonial houses, but even then, those cerimonial houses are amazingly designed with really cool architexture.

What kind of architexture would you say the Ice Palace from the film was of ? It did not look like anything I know of, countrywise

Thanks lol :)

Honestly, I'll have to look at some pictures of it online this weekend and get back to you on that. I've only seen the film once, and I didn't pay much attention to the architecture, but I'm sure if I looked at it more closely I could come up with something, if there is something to be noticed.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
Frozen, on the other hand, has none of that. The clothing may be the most obvious cultural thing about the movie. Otherwise, the only way people would know it was supposed to be Norway is because Disney said it was.

Except for the aforementioned Arandal/ Arendelle connection, the fact that a Norwegian composer is credited on the film's score, the language and terminology used in the film....
 

FigmentsFangirl

Well-Known Member
Except for the aforementioned Arandal/ Arendelle connection, the fact that a Norwegian composer is credited on the film's score, the language and terminology used in the film....
Ah yes, the langauges used in the film, {sure the characters spoke english to us; don't all other country made films speak english to their own kinfolk ?} It actually kind of confused me to see Kudzul {Norse Runes} in the film, made me wonder when the Dwarves from LOTR were there. then I remebmered that the Dwarves were inspired by the Norse to begin with.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom