Wikkler
Well-Known Member
Oh, I forgot, I was replying to you. That is a terrible excuse.
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Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
jt04
Well-Known Member
Excuse for what. There are few walls as there were during the cold war. Now pretty much anyone can talk to anyone through the internet. Travel has never been easier. You must be young. Or poorly educated on history.
Wikkler
Well-Known Member
Excuse for the ippification of Epcot. I'm not poorly educated, I'd actually say the same of you if I was that immature.
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
Not by me! I LOVED El Rio- it was my favorite WS attraction.
halltd
Well-Known Member
Adding IP and Disney characters does not assist in educating anyone about the cultures of the world. It does the absolute opposite by dumbing down everything to a Disney cartoon. Even though Epcot is not what Walt's original vision was, Walt never advocated duplicating every movie character in every attraction in the parks. Just look at Disneyland and how many original idea attractions there were that didn't relate to a movie or character. Some of the most successful attractions like Haunted Mansion and Pirates were standalone. I wish Disney was still able to rely on original ideas instead of just milking every movie for everything its worth...which ends up then being like the newest pop song after a while; once it's overplayed on the radio, most people never want to hear it again.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Using WS for cultural education is no longer useful in the age of the internet. The next best thing is to make it Disney. I hear it is a popular brand around the world.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
There's a difference between reading online and doing something in person.
FigmentForver96
Well-Known Member
If you think Disney is just IPs then you do not know what Disney really is. Maybe you should use the Internet to perhaps watch some of Walt Disney's old films. He talked about things like adventure, science, space, world cultures and technology.
Or, visit the parks every decade or so....
FigmentForver96
Well-Known Member
By his standards he should just use the Internet, same thing right?
halltd
Well-Known Member
I also disagree with this. Showing my 10-year old nephew cultural films that he can remember due to experiencing them during a significant trip to WDW, traveling through Norwegian culture on a boat ride, talking to people from China after an acrobatic show, going through an exhibit about Japanese anime culture / shopping at a Japanese department store, being served by someone from any of the WS servers at any of the restaurants, or looking at any of the other museum-like exhibits at the pavilions is teaching him about authentic cultures and he's going to remember these because they were during one of his trips. They weren't just videos he watched on his iPad at home. This has the ability to spark the interest in him to actually learn more about these cultures or travel to the real countries to broaden his exposure to the world. What I love about most of the pavilions is that they are authentic, right down to the actual cast members. They always talk about authenticity and immersion, but Disney characters are not authentic to those countries. (Well, maybe China since they're all made there, but that's another story.) Personally, I wish Disney merchandise wasn't even sold in the countries. But, I'm a purist.
Once Epcot becomes "just another Disney theme park", the value in the park to educate and inspire is totally lost. I fear it's already very close to being that. But, there could be time to save it.
mickeyfan5534
Well-Known Member
My question in this anti-IP debate, why can't we use these characters to educate? Why can't Remy take people on a tour of Paris or Mary Poppins take people around London or Merida through the Scottish Highlands? Just because they're IP doesn't mean they can't be used well. I know Frozen is a horrible fit but IPs that clearly take place in the countries could give World Showcase a new life.
In his mind, certainly....
Pirate665
Well-Known Member
When Disney goes to sell that dedication plaque, who else will be in line with me. Cause there's no point in having it there now. (Maybe I should add that to my EPCOT tattoo...) And I also preferred El Rio. It felt smoother, and the song was catchy and not in the IASW way. Turtle Talk was welcomed IMHO, but I was upset when the SeaCabs went.
I myself have been more than vocal in my distaste of how EPCOT has changed since EPCOT Center. It's been a trend as of late though to forget heritage and move on with the fast money fast now. I wouldn't be surprised if the new metal detectors are really searching for traces of cash. But, I think this is also a fault of the consumers. If more people held Disney accountable for this and their decisions (MK getting a liquor license, EPCOT becoming a symbol of boozing it with your buddies in the WS and get it quick thrills or characters in FW, DAK slowly forgetting conservation being the front and instead pushing it as a side issue, HS (MGM) transforming into... I don't even know at this point) then I think they'd be more cautious.
As it stands now, the money is the factor and they want it now quick and fast. Look to the failed experiment that has been the Extra Charge Hours at MK and you'll see. If they were gonna do another Another Disney Day event, they would charge for it. I have a feeling that EMH will transform into Extra Charge Hours as well or we'll see a higher implementation of Resort Fees for that experience. I mean, look at the Preferred Parking BS. I liked Disney's Parking system. It made you feel special for getting there early. Now Joe Late can just pay to have a closer space and get his List of Rides (I still rather it'd be attractions) done and go back to his off property hotel. Annual Passes have been shooting up and I wouldn't be surprised if Disney hadn't considered phasing them out. (Though, I guess it's people like me that change that cause I bought the family passes and we spend about 2-3k each time we go...)
These are my opinions, and mine alone. My experiences are just mine. I've seen Cast Member values slipping, I've seen Resort Upkeep change, and more and more. I'll go back to being quiet now, but I needed to get this off my chest. And alot of this started from me the moment Frozen came to EPCOT. And as much as I hate it, it's gonna be there for a long, long, long time.
I myself have been more than vocal in my distaste of how EPCOT has changed since EPCOT Center. It's been a trend as of late though to forget heritage and move on with the fast money fast now. I wouldn't be surprised if the new metal detectors are really searching for traces of cash. But, I think this is also a fault of the consumers. If more people held Disney accountable for this and their decisions (MK getting a liquor license, EPCOT becoming a symbol of boozing it with your buddies in the WS and get it quick thrills or characters in FW, DAK slowly forgetting conservation being the front and instead pushing it as a side issue, HS (MGM) transforming into... I don't even know at this point) then I think they'd be more cautious.
As it stands now, the money is the factor and they want it now quick and fast. Look to the failed experiment that has been the Extra Charge Hours at MK and you'll see. If they were gonna do another Another Disney Day event, they would charge for it. I have a feeling that EMH will transform into Extra Charge Hours as well or we'll see a higher implementation of Resort Fees for that experience. I mean, look at the Preferred Parking BS. I liked Disney's Parking system. It made you feel special for getting there early. Now Joe Late can just pay to have a closer space and get his List of Rides (I still rather it'd be attractions) done and go back to his off property hotel. Annual Passes have been shooting up and I wouldn't be surprised if Disney hadn't considered phasing them out. (Though, I guess it's people like me that change that cause I bought the family passes and we spend about 2-3k each time we go...)
These are my opinions, and mine alone. My experiences are just mine. I've seen Cast Member values slipping, I've seen Resort Upkeep change, and more and more. I'll go back to being quiet now, but I needed to get this off my chest. And alot of this started from me the moment Frozen came to EPCOT. And as much as I hate it, it's gonna be there for a long, long, long time.
brb1006
Well-Known Member
I remember thinking of a good idea like that for France but ever since Frozen got announced that it will be an attraction at WS and taking over Norway I guess this idea will have to come back when the Frozen reaction calms down in the future.
mickhyperion
Active Member
It's a great idea actually. Using characters to educate is precisely what Walt Disney did to great effect in the 1940s with Saludos Amigos and Three Caballeros, as just two examples. The intelligencia didn't care for it then, however, and they don't care for it now. (See Gran Fiesta Tour.)
It has been decreed by those-that-know-better that IP shall not be used in Epcot, even though the park is a hollow burnt-out shell of it's former glory and it will never, ever, ever be restored to anything resembling what it was in concept or in execution on October 1, 1982. Clearly, according to some, cartoons are only fodder for children and Walt Disney had it completely wrong and he should have given it up after insulting the intelligencia with Fantasia. Fortunately for the rest of us, he metaphorically gave them the finger instead.
Mike S
Well-Known Member
No one here has said anything close to what you're accusing.
FigmentForver96
Well-Known Member
Well thank you for making it obvious you have no idea what is going on....
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
This entire thing was just a bad idea. Frozen doesn't belong in Norway as it doesn't take place in Norway (no, having the country it DOES take place in sort of inspired by Norway doesn't count), it's taking forever to build, there's apparently some problems going on inside the building, the lines will be enormous and result in World Showcase having a million bottlenecks... It doesn't seem like they thought this idea through at all.
Kate F
Well-Known Member
Con #7: Due to the long lines this attraction will have, Disney will likely write this attraction off as a success, which will indicate to them that continuing to feed us mediocrity is OK.