Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

Bartattack

Well-Known Member
And Diagon Alley from the closure of Jaws until opening took what, 2 years? How many rides / attractions / experiences / theming / shops and restaurants were part of that?

And that included massive demolition and land repurposing!

It's not way, it's will.

but how long were they planning and designing this thing? they annouced diagon alley in 2011...
and they already knew the popularity of the IP...and already knew how it should look.

Frozen was released in november 2013. I'm surprised they closed Maelstrom a year later to start this ride.
They had to plan and design it, considering they also didn't know from the start that it would be a boxoffice hit.

this doesn't seem slow to me at all... but realistic.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
No, I don't. Do you think it is fair for little ten year old girls to wait until they're twenty years old to experience a Frozen attraction at Disney?

Which one is better -- waiting for one hour or waiting for ten years?

There are no gifs, but the pictures serve as a visual aid in effectively countering the argument that Frozen does not fit or somehow does not reflect the culture of Norway.

Sorry, you misread. I totally *love* FP+! @AEfx and I were discussing FP+ *only*. You know, you may want to try this little thing called 'reading' -- it could save us so much time on the fundamentals.

Frozen desperately needs a dedicated space in the parks because people were waiting in line upwards of seven hours just to meet the characters -- not only because the movie was popular.

Fast and cheap are not mutually exclusive so, I don't really get your comment. Haven't you heard of the Iron Triangle? It goes like this.

34quvdt.png

Courtesy of www.business.com

  • Develop something quickly and of high quality, but it will be very costly to do
  • Develop something quickly and cheaply, but it will not be of high quality
  • Develop something of high quality and low cost, but it will take a long time
Now, the Frozen ride presents an interesting conundrum, in that all of the infrastructure is already in place, it's just an elaborate overlay, that includes the expansion of the neighboring plot of land.

Disney is still investing upwards of $80 - $100 million dollars for this expansion. In contrast, Cedar Point just unveiled their brand new floorless coaster called Rougarou and that cost only $12 million dollars. So, this is not a *cheap* expansion by any stretch of the imagination, Disney could build 10 Rougarou coasters for the price of this overlay. If we remove the existing infrastructure it would cost twice that or more.

I think the Frozen ride and expansion falls under quick and of high quality but costly.

"Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem."
^^^ All I can is wow to the above comment -- it raises so many red flags and is by far one of the most bizarre comments I have ever read.

I seriously don't know of any credible mental health professional, or anyone with expertise in this particular field of practice that would feel confident in throwing out random diagnoses of mental illness to label strangers on the internet, in hopes of illustrating a point about an amusement park ride.

And, sadly I have seen this kind of thing done here before. It's incredibly spiteful, if anything it hurts your credibility and highlights your inability to convey a simple opinion about an amusement park ride without resorting to desperate ad hom fallacy type attacks. You have just demonstrated to everyone, how low you are willing to stoop, in order to prove a point that is purely subjective anyway, so take a good look in the mirror.

Just relax, and think carefully about exercising caution when writing your responses. Civil discourse should be fun and engaging -- we don't have to be mean to each other. Seriously, such measures should only be applied when dealing with @wm49rs.

Thank you for answering my question. I was kind of hoping that the both spaces would be connected to where I can just walk right across, if that makes sense.

I acknowledge that Frozen deserves more. However, if you look at this objectively -- the only other alternative, is to wait for several years after Star Wars is completed, so this isn't quite so bad. Maelstrom needed an update anyway.

Pro Tip: never answer my questions with a question.

Now back to what I had originally asked… Is it fair to take Disney's hottest property and put it in Epcot's smallest attraction?
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
No, I don't. Do you think it is fair for little ten year old girls to wait until they're twenty years old to experience a Frozen attraction at Disney?

Which one is better -- waiting for one hour or waiting for ten years?

There are no gifs, but the pictures serve as a visual aid in effectively countering the argument that Frozen does not fit or somehow does not reflect the culture of Norway.

Sorry, you misread. I totally *love* FP+! @AEfx and I were discussing FP+ *only*. You know, you may want to try this little thing called 'reading' -- it could save us so much time on the fundamentals.

Frozen desperately needs a dedicated space in the parks because people were waiting in line upwards of seven hours just to meet the characters -- not only because the movie was popular.

Fast and cheap are not mutually exclusive so, I don't really get your comment. Haven't you heard of the Iron Triangle? It goes like this.

34quvdt.png

Courtesy of www.business.com

  • Develop something quickly and of high quality, but it will be very costly to do
  • Develop something quickly and cheaply, but it will not be of high quality
  • Develop something of high quality and low cost, but it will take a long time
Now, the Frozen ride presents an interesting conundrum, in that all of the infrastructure is already in place, it's just an elaborate overlay, that includes the expansion of the neighboring plot of land.

Disney is still investing upwards of $80 - $100 million dollars for this expansion. In contrast, Cedar Point just unveiled their brand new floorless coaster called Rougarou and that cost only $12 million dollars. So, this is not a *cheap* expansion by any stretch of the imagination, Disney could build 10 Rougarou coasters for the price of this overlay. If we remove the existing infrastructure it would cost twice that or more.

I think the Frozen ride and expansion falls under quick and of high quality but costly.

"Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem."
^^^ All I can is wow to the above comment -- it raises so many red flags and is by far one of the most bizarre comments I have ever read.

I seriously don't know of any credible mental health professional, or anyone with expertise in this particular field of practice that would feel confident in throwing out random diagnoses of mental illness to label strangers on the internet, in hopes of illustrating a point about an amusement park ride.

And, sadly I have seen this kind of thing done here before. It's incredibly spiteful, if anything it hurts your credibility and highlights your inability to convey a simple opinion about an amusement park ride without resorting to desperate ad hom fallacy type attacks. You have just demonstrated to everyone, how low you are willing to stoop, in order to prove a point that is purely subjective anyway, so take a good look in the mirror.

Just relax, and think carefully about exercising caution when writing your responses. Civil discourse should be fun and engaging -- we don't have to be mean to each other. Seriously, such measures should only be applied when dealing with @wm49rs.

Thank you for answering my question. I was kind of hoping that the both spaces would be connected to where I can just walk right across, if that makes sense.

I acknowledge that Frozen deserves more. However, if you look at this objectively -- the only other alternative, is to wait for several years after Star Wars is completed, so this isn't quite so bad. Maelstrom needed an update anyway.
And they also let you avoid facts or uncomfortable questions you don't wish to answer. Convenient. But, must press on while on the clock....
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
However, if you look at this objectively -- the only other alternative, is to wait for several years after Star Wars is completed, so this isn't quite so bad. Maelstrom needed an update anyway.
Who told you that nonsense? I hope you didn't believe them.

Maelstrom had a refurb planned. Until this mess.

So come on. Do you work for Disney or do you just believe their PR?
 
Last edited:

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
LOL...

"Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem."
^^^ All I can is wow to the above comment -- it raises so many red flags and is by far one of the most bizarre comments I have ever read.

I seriously don't know of any credible mental health professional, or anyone with expertise in this particular field of practice that would feel confident in throwing out random diagnoses of mental illness to label strangers on the internet, in hopes of illustrating a point about an amusement park ride.

And, sadly I have seen this kind of thing done here before. It's incredibly spiteful, if anything it hurts your credibility and highlights your inability to convey a simple opinion about an amusement park ride without resorting to desperate ad hom fallacy type attacks. You have just demonstrated to everyone, how low you are willing to stoop, in order to prove a point that is purely subjective anyway, so take a good look in the mirror.

Didn't you just post this?

You know, you may want to try this little thing called 'reading' -- it could save us so much time on the fundamentals.

Talk about "reading"... reading comprehension might be important too...I'll clarify, the post "Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem." was talking about the loss of identity that has been happening at the whole of EPCOT center.

*1023*
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
No, I don't. Do you think it is fair for little ten year old girls to wait until they're twenty years old to experience a Frozen attraction at Disney?

Which one is better -- waiting for one hour or waiting for ten years?
So much wrong with this its not even funny. You do realize Tokyo is getting a full expansion that will take much less than 10 years right? It's set to open in 2018 though I don't believe work has started yet. I'll also bring up the obligatory Uni comparison and say that both Harry Potter lands were built and open in less than ten years, not to mention the other rides that opened in the same timeframe. A quality attraction doesn't have to take so long. Disney is just so obsessed with their quarter-to-quarter numbers that they needlessly spread things out to make them look better.
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
No, I don't. Do you think it is fair for little ten year old girls to wait until they're twenty years old to experience a Frozen attraction at Disney?

Which one is better -- waiting for one hour or waiting for ten years?

There are no gifs, but the pictures serve as a visual aid in effectively countering the argument that Frozen does not fit or somehow does not reflect the culture of Norway.

Sorry, you misread. I totally *love* FP+! @AEfx and I were discussing FP+ *only*. You know, you may want to try this little thing called 'reading' -- it could save us so much time on the fundamentals.

Frozen desperately needs a dedicated space in the parks because people were waiting in line upwards of seven hours just to meet the characters -- not only because the movie was popular.

Fast and cheap are not mutually exclusive so, I don't really get your comment. Haven't you heard of the Iron Triangle? It goes like this.

34quvdt.png

Courtesy of www.business.com

  • Develop something quickly and of high quality, but it will be very costly to do
  • Develop something quickly and cheaply, but it will not be of high quality
  • Develop something of high quality and low cost, but it will take a long time
Now, the Frozen ride presents an interesting conundrum, in that all of the infrastructure is already in place, it's just an elaborate overlay, that includes the expansion of the neighboring plot of land.

Disney is still investing upwards of $80 - $100 million dollars for this expansion. In contrast, Cedar Point just unveiled their brand new floorless coaster called Rougarou and that cost only $12 million dollars. So, this is not a *cheap* expansion by any stretch of the imagination, Disney could build 10 Rougarou coasters for the price of this overlay. If we remove the existing infrastructure it would cost twice that or more.

I think the Frozen ride and expansion falls under quick and of high quality but costly.

"Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem."
^^^ All I can is wow to the above comment -- it raises so many red flags and is by far one of the most bizarre comments I have ever read.

I seriously don't know of any credible mental health professional, or anyone with expertise in this particular field of practice that would feel confident in throwing out random diagnoses of mental illness to label strangers on the internet, in hopes of illustrating a point about an amusement park ride.

And, sadly I have seen this kind of thing done here before. It's incredibly spiteful, if anything it hurts your credibility and highlights your inability to convey a simple opinion about an amusement park ride without resorting to desperate ad hom fallacy type attacks. You have just demonstrated to everyone, how low you are willing to stoop, in order to prove a point that is purely subjective anyway, so take a good look in the mirror.

Just relax, and think carefully about exercising caution when writing your responses. Civil discourse should be fun and engaging -- we don't have to be mean to each other. Seriously, such measures should only be applied when dealing with @wm49rs.

Thank you for answering my question. I was kind of hoping that the both spaces would be connected to where I can just walk right across, if that makes sense.

I acknowledge that Frozen deserves more. However, if you look at this objectively -- the only other alternative, is to wait for several years after Star Wars is completed, so this isn't quite so bad. Maelstrom needed an update anyway.

Comparing Cedar Point to Disney is apples to oranges. Disney and Universal Orlando is better. By even that comparison, Frozen is both cheap and fast and looks to be poorly done. What a disservice to both the guests and the success of the film.
 
Last edited:

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
No, I don't. Do you think it is fair for little ten year old girls to wait until they're twenty years old to experience a Frozen attraction at Disney?

Which one is better -- waiting for one hour or waiting for ten years?

There are no gifs, but the pictures serve as a visual aid in effectively countering the argument that Frozen does not fit or somehow does not reflect the culture of Norway.

Sorry, you misread. I totally *love* FP+! @AEfx and I were discussing FP+ *only*. You know, you may want to try this little thing called 'reading' -- it could save us so much time on the fundamentals.

Frozen desperately needs a dedicated space in the parks because people were waiting in line upwards of seven hours just to meet the characters -- not only because the movie was popular.

Fast and cheap are not mutually exclusive so, I don't really get your comment. Haven't you heard of the Iron Triangle? It goes like this.

34quvdt.png

Courtesy of www.business.com

  • Develop something quickly and of high quality, but it will be very costly to do
  • Develop something quickly and cheaply, but it will not be of high quality
  • Develop something of high quality and low cost, but it will take a long time
Now, the Frozen ride presents an interesting conundrum, in that all of the infrastructure is already in place, it's just an elaborate overlay, that includes the expansion of the neighboring plot of land.

Disney is still investing upwards of $80 - $100 million dollars for this expansion. In contrast, Cedar Point just unveiled their brand new floorless coaster called Rougarou and that cost only $12 million dollars. So, this is not a *cheap* expansion by any stretch of the imagination, Disney could build 10 Rougarou coasters for the price of this overlay. If we remove the existing infrastructure it would cost twice that or more.

I think the Frozen ride and expansion falls under quick and of high quality but costly.

"Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem."
^^^ All I can is wow to the above comment -- it raises so many red flags and is by far one of the most bizarre comments I have ever read.

I seriously don't know of any credible mental health professional, or anyone with expertise in this particular field of practice that would feel confident in throwing out random diagnoses of mental illness to label strangers on the internet, in hopes of illustrating a point about an amusement park ride.

And, sadly I have seen this kind of thing done here before. It's incredibly spiteful, if anything it hurts your credibility and highlights your inability to convey a simple opinion about an amusement park ride without resorting to desperate ad hom fallacy type attacks. You have just demonstrated to everyone, how low you are willing to stoop, in order to prove a point that is purely subjective anyway, so take a good look in the mirror.

Just relax, and think carefully about exercising caution when writing your responses. Civil discourse should be fun and engaging -- we don't have to be mean to each other. Seriously, such measures should only be applied when dealing with @wm49rs.

Thank you for answering my question. I was kind of hoping that the both spaces would be connected to where I can just walk right across, if that makes sense.

I acknowledge that Frozen deserves more. However, if you look at this objectively -- the only other alternative, is to wait for several years after Star Wars is completed, so this isn't quite so bad. Maelstrom needed an update anyway.
Rougarou was a cheap overlay of an existing coaster. Exactly what Disney is doing with this attraction. $75 Million is "cheap" for a new Disney attraction.

And how long between The Little Mermaid and UtS:VotLM? 24 years? I pity all those little princesses that loved that movie that had to wait until they had their own little princesses to be able to travel under the sea with Arial.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
@Siren, no offense but you have got to stop throwing out that "10 years" thing. It's ridiculous.

It wasn't all that long ago that Disney used to work on multiple attractions at multiple parks simultaneously. During the Happiest Celebration on Earth, an 18-month period from 2005-2006, Disney did the following:

  • Magic Kingdom received a major refurbishment of "it's a small world", A major refurbishment of Pirates of the Caribbean, a new golden overlay for Cinderella Castle including a temporary stage show held at the castle called "Cinderellabration" featuring many Disney princesses and a new playground Pooh's Playful Spot.
  • Epcot received Soarin' from Disney's California Adventure and A Hong Kong Disneyland Preview Center
  • Disney-MGM Studios received a major refurbishment of the Streets of America area, and the Lights, Motors, Action! Extreme Stunt Show from Walt Disney Studios (Disneyland Resort Paris)
  • Disney's Animal Kingdom temporarily exhibited Lucky the Dinosaur, the first free-roaming automatic Audio-Animatronic figure; in addition in 2006 the park opened Expedition Everest, a highly themed roller coaster through the Himalayas that features an encounter with the Yeti.
And that was just at Walt Disney World. Other attractions were opening at all the other properties.

Today, they take something like the Fantasyland expansion and spread it out over 4-5 years while not developing much of anything else. Disney does this for their own reasons which most likely have to do with spreading out costs over multiple years (which is ridiculous given record prices and attendance).

But it doesn't have to be this way. Disney could have easily built an entire Frozen land if it wanted to in a reasonable time frame. They don't because they don't want to. If you're okay with Disney choosing to do the cheapest and most expedient thing (and then taking much longer than necessary to do it), that's your prerogative. But don't invent some false choice like it was this or go without Frozen for a decade! That's beyond absurd.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
"Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem."
^^^ All I can is wow to the above comment -- it raises so many red flags and is by far one of the most bizarre comments I have ever read.
I was speaking about Epcot having an identity issue in terms of blurring the lines between it and MK. Perhaps you should heed your own advice and learn to read, then take it another step further and work on your interpretive skills. Your so quick to assume everything is an attack. Everything else you said about that comment was a waste of server space. Which leads me to my second point.

Just relax, and think carefully about exercising caution when writing your responses. Civil discourse should be fun and engaging -- we don't have to be mean to each other. Seriously, such measures should only be applied when dealing with @wm49rs.
Citing your desire for civil discourse after you hurl insults at myself and @wm49rs displays how hypocritical your entire viewpoint is. Similar to when you said it was great that they were joining the M&G space with the existing area to improve fluidity, and when later proven wrong, you changed your opinion and said how it was great idea to have them separate. I dont even think you know what you are defending at this point. Your excited for a Frozen ride, we get it. Some people are having a discussion in regards to much larger issues though such as hourly capacity and the companies desire for attendance boost over quality adaptation and creativeness. Frozen and Norwegian tourism is the least of our concerns. Try and keep up. Take tylenol for any headaches.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
No, I don't. Do you think it is fair for little ten year old girls to wait until they're twenty years old to experience a Frozen attraction at Disney?

Which one is better -- waiting for one hour or waiting for ten years?

Why does it have to be 10 years from now? Tokyo will have their Frozen themed attraction and port up and running well under the 10 year mark.

For a recent stateside example look at Cars. Cars the movie 2006, Carsland at DCA opened in 2012.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Pro Tip: never answer my questions with a question.

Now back to what I had originally asked… Is it fair to take Disney's hottest property and put it in Epcot's smallest attraction?
Im still waiting for her response to that as well. The questions that cant be dismissed with a broad retort such as, "get over it" or "Frozen needs a ride" require more time to formulate a confusing response that will ultimately neither answer the question nor prove their point that this was the proper decision in any way.
 

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