AEfx
Well-Known Member
No, some of you guys did a great job at tearing him/her to shreds just for not thinking this is the End of the World as We Know It and enforcing the groupthink policy.
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Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion
- Thread starter wdwmagic
- Start date
No, some of you guys did a great job at tearing him/her to shreds just for not thinking this is the End of the World as We Know It and enforcing the groupthink policy.
Well you know, shift work and all that....
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
No, some of you guys did a great job at tearing him/her to shreds just for not thinking this is the End of the World as We Know It and enforcing the groupthink policy.
No, i dont see this as a "groupthink".... I am more of the opinion that if they had an actual cohesive argument rather that parrotting talking points, then she may have had something.
None of us see this as "The end of the world" or "the end of Epcot" as that happened years ago. I think the overwhelming argument is that if you're going to do something, do it right. Frozen (love it or hate it) deserves its due and deserves more than being tossed into a low-capacity attraction where they just changed the decor.
On the other hand, she should never have answered my question with a question..... Thats just a horrible idea.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
Musta been her turn at Rachels.
1023
Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
No, some of you guys did a great job at tearing him/her to shreds just for not thinking this is the End of the World as We Know It and enforcing the groupthink policy.
I hope you aren't throwing me in with "you guys". I asked one direct question in my first post and my second post pointing out the ironic hypocrisy....
Bartattack got my point by point counter argument post....
*1023*
danlb_2000
Premium Member
"Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints, by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences."
"minimize conflict", "reach a consensus", "desire for harmony", Yeah, that's this message board.
"minimize conflict", "reach a consensus", "desire for harmony", Yeah, that's this message board.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
If Disney was ambitious as it once was, they could have started construction of an entire Frozen land at DHS when it became clear that it was a runaway success and had soft openings starting in a few months. And that park would have a wonderful 2016. Instead...
Bartattack
Well-Known Member
I think most of us would love to see a 200 million dollar state-of-the-art E-ticket Frozen ride/mini-land...
But it's just not realistic. They've build NFL, created MM+, are building DisneySprings, Avatarland, Rivers of Light, redesigned the MK HUB, build Harambe marketplace, festival of the lion king and are probably planning a major overhaul of DHS with a Starwars ride. You just can't build 200+ million dollars things every year... at some point the investment needs to be worth it.
That...and people want their Frozen ride now... not in 2 or 3 years. Of course you need to spread things out to keep the guests interest...so they come back.
And then somebody points to Universal: look, but they can do it! Yeah..they had to! Universal didn't get anything new in years. They had to do something. can they keep this up? No. It will stop at a certain point and than they'll sit back for a while and let the investment bring in the money. (and by then they probably also have realised that they'll will be getting a crowd problem that they have to tackle...)
But it's just not realistic. They've build NFL, created MM+, are building DisneySprings, Avatarland, Rivers of Light, redesigned the MK HUB, build Harambe marketplace, festival of the lion king and are probably planning a major overhaul of DHS with a Starwars ride. You just can't build 200+ million dollars things every year... at some point the investment needs to be worth it.
That...and people want their Frozen ride now... not in 2 or 3 years. Of course you need to spread things out to keep the guests interest...so they come back.
And then somebody points to Universal: look, but they can do it! Yeah..they had to! Universal didn't get anything new in years. They had to do something. can they keep this up? No. It will stop at a certain point and than they'll sit back for a while and let the investment bring in the money. (and by then they probably also have realised that they'll will be getting a crowd problem that they have to tackle...)
For a company that crows about its record earnings practically ever quarter, it is indeed realistic.
And Universal has made its HP money back and then some. The building isn't going to stop any time soon....
englanddg
One Little Spark...
"Burke told the analysts that Universal has increased its capital spending on theme parks to about $500 million a year, and that he expects that to be the company's new normal for annual capital spending. He said that the company's goal is to open a new attraction every year at both Universal Orlando and Universal Studios Hollywood."
http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201309/3654/
AEfx
Well-Known Member
"Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints, by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences."
"minimize conflict", "reach a consensus", "desire for harmony", Yeah, that's this message board.
When it comes to some topics, like Epcot - that's indeed a very apt description of the mentality.
If you are going to selectively quote, then you need to add "reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints, by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences."
If you haven't spent the last 25 years mourning the loss of the first 10 years, you are "parroting the company line". If you don't think this is the worst, most horrific thing to happen to Epcot, you must be a paid shill (EDIT: or mentally ill - thanks asianway!
).
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asianway
Well-Known Member
Serious mental illness..
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Or maybe she's just not the pretentious pessimist that others are.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Let's be honest- EPCOT always let education take a back seat to money when needed. Just look at some pages from this "educational" comic from back in the day (some language in that article, fair warning).
One thing that article doesn't touch on is how the comic touches on the gas crisis but fails to mention that said crisis was pretty much invented whole cloth by the American oil industry to jack up prices. But then, that would get in the way of "edutainment".
One thing that article doesn't touch on is how the comic touches on the gas crisis but fails to mention that said crisis was pretty much invented whole cloth by the American oil industry to jack up prices. But then, that would get in the way of "edutainment".
Darth Sidious
Authentically Disney Distinctly Chinese
She is talented but constrained by the way things are.
Come on Dave of all people that joke was in your wheelhouse.
As for the attraction and the hottest IP going to Epcot's smallest capacity attraction. I ask @Siren this: would you like the current plan or would you rather this plans alternative?
Here is the alternative... You have DHS in line and currently being prepped for new attractions and plenty of real estate... You go ahead and do something similar to the designs you came up with for Tokyo DisneySea:
Which do you think is better? Oh and in the latter you either refurbish the existing Maelstrom or replace it with something just as good but more in the theme of the surrounding area and less taxing on infrastructure/space available.
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PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
She is talented but constrained by the way things are.
Come one Dave of all people that joke was in your wheelhouse.
As for the attraction and the hottest IP going to Epcot's smallest capacity attraction. I ask @Siren this: would you like the current plan or would you rather this plans alternative?
Here is the alternative... You have DHS in line and currently being prepped for new attractions and plenty of real estate... You go ahead and do something similar to the designs you came up with for Tokyo DisneySea:
Which do you think is better? Oh and in the latter you either refurbish the existing Maelstrom or replace it with something just as good but more in the theme of the surrounding area and less taxing on infrastructure/space available.
Yes it was.... I'm just trying to be good these days
englanddg
One Little Spark...
sedati
Well-Known Member
"Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Group members try to minimize conflict and reach a consensus decision without critical evaluation of alternative viewpoints, by actively suppressing dissenting viewpoints, and by isolating themselves from outside influences."
"minimize conflict", "reach a consensus", "desire for harmony", Yeah, that's this message board.
Meangirls is the term I would use.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
would you like the current plan or would you rather this plans alternative?
Here is the alternative... You have DHS in line and currently being prepped for new attractions and plenty of real estate... You go ahead and do something similar to the designs you came up with for Tokyo DisneySea:
Which do you think is better? Oh and in the latter you either refurbish the existing Maelstrom or replace it with something just as good but more in the theme of the surrounding area and less taxing on infrastructure/space available.
This is what some of you folks just cannot wrap your heads around.
YES! WE WOULD ALL LOVE EVERYTHING TO GET A DEDICATED 300M ATTRACTION!
No one has said otherwise. So why constantly folks harp on it like no one agrees is really perplexing.
Saying that was the "alternative" simply is uneducated. Because it's not what Disney does at WDW, it hasn't been for a very long time (if it ever really was aside from initial build-outs, and not even then - hello AK!), and holding on to the fantasy that somehow this will all magically change is naive, at best.
Let's say you really really want a steak dinner. You are starving. You haven't eaten in days. Are you going to spit at the cheeseburger you are offered? It may not be what you want, but it's food - it's sustenance - it's better than going hungry.
Truth be told, if they were putting a $300M Frozen attraction at WDW, at least half these folks would STILL be complaining because "ugh how can they be putting all that money into Frozen, flavor of the month!" Also mostly the same people who complained that Disney didn't have something ready to go when the movie came out. Essentially, no matter what they did with Frozen, many of the same folks would be complaining just as heavily.
This is the groupthink on this - which completely ignores that to the outside world, this is FABULOUS NEWS - Maelstrom has reportedly been among the lowest rated WDW rides in terms of guest satisfaction ever, it's being replace by what sounds like a lovely little ride with some neat effects on a theme that appeals to MILLIONS in ways that Maelstrom never did.
Now, capacity issues? Sure, that's a valid concern. It's going to be an issue. But this community is clearly completely ignoring the fact that this is not "bad news" to anyone but those clinging to rose-colored memories and the old company PR about the company and Epcot in general that they bought into hook, line, and sinker as kids and haven't been able to rationally see for what it was.