Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I think there is going to be a whole lot of discussion in regards to this. I hope there will be a way to extrapolate certain factors such as how long people stay at Epcot after riding, or if attendance is high in the am and tapers off mid day. I dont see how families or people who find Epcot boring will have a new found love for the remaining sections of the park simply because of the Frozen ride. I could be wrong. Hopefully the numbers will tell us more.

People will stay in Epcot because their Fastpass at 3PM will keep them stuck there. Or they'll be in the standby line for three hours.

It will get an attendance boost, no doubt. Will it be the 20% speculated? (I wish I wrote down where I heard that) Distinct possibility. Frozen Summer Fun gave the Studios quite a bump last year, salvaging its year.

Worst case scenario? You have a summer of New Years Eve style crowds in that one part of World Showcase....
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
It's hard for me to envision what this will look like.
It didnt seem like you had trouble envisioning what it would like when you said it will help with fluidity? Where you just guessing and then stating it as fact?

It may be best that the Frozen ride and meet and greet areas remain separate but right next to each other.
So now your saying the exact opposite of what you proposed prior, and again saying its "best"? What about your claims of this being good to help fluidity? You abandon your beliefs so quickly just to not be proven wrong? You cant just flip flop to suite your feelings.

This is just silly, even for you. I don't know what you have managed to convince yourself of, but don't you get just a little bit tired? It seems exhausting.
Are you asking him, or are you really asking yourself? Think about it.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
But, it is how certain parts of Norway looks, so it's not sad, at all. What I find to be sadder, is people who visit the Norway Pavilion at Epcot in lieu of visiting the real Norway and ride Maelstrom, thinking it's just like visiting the actual country.



1. Okay, you're probably right. But, time is an issue, so if Disney were to unveil plans for a Frozen land, it would be at least 10 years from now before we get to experience it. The Frozen ride is not perfect or as grand as it should or could be -- but, it is a nice compromise, IMO.

2. I am hoping that there will be more boats added into the fleet or perhaps larger boats that can hold more people.

I don't understand the point of this question. I can only refer to myself, but you already know this.

Yes, I believe that Disney is desperate to get more clicks at Epcot. However, they stumbled upon this gold mine by pure chance. It wasn't discovered until the seven hour waits just to meet Anna and Elsa ensued.

If you owned a bakery that sold cupcakes that were so good, that people lined up for miles each day just to buy one -- would you suddenly stop selling the cupcakes because the lobby is too small and there isn't enough parking? Would you tell your patrons they have to wait ten years to buy another cupcake because you have to build a much larger bakery?

Would the customers choose to wait ten years for you to build to proper bakery or would they want to continue buying cupcakes right now?

As for theme and story -- Frozen has it all. A cohesive theme and story was seriously lacking in Maelstrom, hence the awkward misplaced boat and oil rig scene at the end.

It's difficult to define what actually *fits* in Epcot since there is no uniform theme, the present concepts are open to interpretation, IMO.

This is just silly, even for you. I don't know what you have managed to convince yourself of, but don't you get just a little bit tired? It seems exhausting.

It's hard for me to envision what this will look like. I want to experience the Norway Pavilion firsthand before deeming it to be 'badly executed'. It may be best that the Frozen ride and meet and greet areas remain separate but right next to each other.

I totally agree, that discussing Frozen at Epcot is hilarious. LOL.
Not exhausting in the least. Unless you're referring to your continual avoidance of facts that aren't toeing the company line. But, when you're on the clock and all....
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
they stumbled upon this gold mine by pure chance. It wasn't discovered until the seven hour waits just to meet Anna and Elsa ensued.
So, Your saying on one had that the company was so inept that it took over a year after the film smashing the box office numbers, tons of merch sales and then only after seeing long lines at the M&G that they discovered they had a "gold mine", yet on the other hand you trust their decision to fast track an attraction into the easiest area possible and even go so far as to defend it? Thats funny
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Well when Kathy Mangum tells the WSJ they're doing it at Epcot to give it an attendance boost, kinda hard for anyone to deny it.

(And if people don't know who Kathy Mangum is, you have some homework to do. These forums have required reading)

Fans of ice cream bars, prophylactics, and hand guns know all about her controversial company that specializes in products you don't want your children to have access to without adult supervision.
 

odmichael

Well-Known Member
But, it is how certain parts of Norway looks, so it's not sad, at all. What I find to be sadder, is people who visit the Norway Pavilion at Epcot in lieu of visiting the real Norway and ride Maelstrom, thinking it's just like visiting the actual country.
Yes Norway has some features from Frozen. I know the makers of the film even visited the country. What I'm saying is that it's a Modern society. I think that this gives Americans a stereotype that when you travel to Europe that it's all castles and stuff. Some parts are. But most are not. And European countries are far more advanced than the U.S. in some ways.

Yes, I believe that Disney is desperate to get more clicks at Epcot. However, they stumbled upon this gold mine by pure chance. It wasn't discovered until the seven hour waits just to meet Anna and Elsa ensued.

If you owned a bakery that sold cupcakes that were so good, that people lined up for miles each day just to buy one -- would you suddenly stop selling the cupcakes because the lobby is too small and there isn't enough parking? Would you tell your patrons they have to wait ten years to buy another cupcake because you have to build a much larger bakery?

Would the customers choose to wait ten years for you to build to proper bakery or would they want to continue buying cupcakes right now?

As for theme and story -- Frozen has it all. A cohesive theme and story was seriously lacking in Maelstrom, hence the awkward misplaced boat and oil rig scene at the end.

It's difficult to define what actually *fits* in Epcot since there is no uniform theme, the present concepts are open to interpretation, IMO.
This just contradicts yourself. The solution is build a bigger bakery. Maelstrom isn't nearly enough space. So people will be skipping over that part of the park. If they made an original ride in a different vicinity, then they would make way more money off merchandise from people stopping in that part of the park.
 

chiefs11

Well-Known Member
1. Okay, you're probably right. But, time is an issue, so if Disney were to unveil plans for a Frozen land, it would be at least 10 years from now before we get to experience it. The Frozen ride is not perfect or as grand as it should or could be -- but, it is a nice compromise, IMO.

2. I am hoping that there will be more boats added into the fleet or perhaps larger boats that can hold more people.
1. Given the proper funds, a mini-land with a real E-ticket ride and possibly a smaller ride, shops, and m&g could be built in the same time frame this makeover is taking. Had they not been so slow to react, it could have even been started sooner. The Norway pavillion and Maelstrom itself was built in 2 years! Epcot as a whole only took about 3 years!

2. You can hope all you want, but it won't matter. It's been said many times that adding boats won't increase the number of people that get to ride per hour. Larger boats holding more people would, but I'm pretty sure that won't happen either, since it's restricted by the size of the flume and the reversal mechanisms. I guess if they could speed up the reversing and dispatching of boats and make the flume flow faster, you could cycle more boats/people through..but that would only make an already short ride even shorter!
 

Bartattack

Well-Known Member
so...
you have a surprise hit on your hands that prints money...
You have gigantic lines for a M&G...in a park which already has crowd problems.
You decide this IP needs a ride....fast.
Preferably in a park that needs a little attendance boost.
you can choose DHS; but it would take much more time and money... of go for Epcot; which has
a ride that really needs a breath of fresh air. (and wich already has the infrastructure for the ride)
You can launch this ride a year before avatarland opens.... so it might give a repeat visit from guests.
(instead of opening 2 big rides/lands in almost the same year)

all this considered, if it was my company, I would take the exact same decision...
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
all this considered, if it was my company, I would take the exact same decision...

Apart from the facts this company was once heralded as the leader in theme, detail and story. Not profit before anything else.

Caribbean Plaza, the ride within, and Horizons were all built within 14 months.

How long is this tragedy in Epcot taking again? They could have opened a purpose built attraction in a purpose built area in DHS before this coming Christmas if they wanted to.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Apart from the facts this company was once heralded as the leader in theme, detail and story. Not profit before anything else.

Caribbean Plaza, the ride within, and Horizons were all built within 14 months.

How long is this tragedy in Epcot taking again? They could have opened a purpose built attraction in a purpose built area in DHS before this coming Christmas if they wanted to.
And Diagon Alley from the closure of Jaws until opening took what, 2 years? How many rides / attractions / experiences / theming / shops and restaurants were part of that?

And that included massive demolition and land repurposing!

It's not way, it's will.
 
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Siren

Well-Known Member
Question for you.... do you think that an attraction that handles 900 guests/hour is fair to put on Frozen?
No, I don't. Do you think it is fair for little ten year old girls to wait until they're twenty years old to experience a Frozen attraction at Disney?

Which one is better -- waiting for one hour or waiting for ten years?

No, Frozen is not getting credit in Norway because it takes place in a fictional land that is supplanting a real one....

Said the individual resorting to gifs and pictures, whether related to the topic or not. Ironic....

And you still haven't denied anything....
There are no gifs, but the pictures serve as a visual aid in effectively countering the argument that Frozen does not fit or somehow does not reflect the culture of Norway.

Ironic (or just sad) that you feel this way about FP+, yet the Norway pavilion's identity crisis is excusable because of "tourism" boosting.


How does a movie being popular equate to, "its in desperate need of a dedicated space in the parks"?

So your saying that they have timed this whole thing out well? Or that doing it the "fastest way" is proper? I also think your confusing "Fastest" with "cheapest".



You, like so many others before you, make the misconception that people "complain" about this because its "Frozen" or that because Maelstrom is being replaced. You could not be more wrong. Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem. Doesnt matter if the ride itself is great or its a hot mess, its forcing a square peg into a circular hole. You allow your excitement to blind you because the company has done so little for so long that now even a step in the wrong direction is defended and excused by so many either because they lack the vision to see a few steps ahead or because they are so afraid to face the idea that Disney really just doesnt care about them or their love for Frozen, they just threw you a cheap bone.
Sorry, you misread. I totally *love* FP+! @AEfx and I were discussing FP+ *only*. You know, you may want to try this little thing called 'reading' -- it could save us so much time on the fundamentals.

Frozen desperately needs a dedicated space in the parks because people were waiting in line upwards of seven hours just to meet the characters -- not only because the movie was popular.

Fast and cheap are not mutually exclusive so, I don't really get your comment. Haven't you heard of the Iron Triangle? It goes like this.

34quvdt.png

Courtesy of www.business.com

  • Develop something quickly and of high quality, but it will be very costly to do
  • Develop something quickly and cheaply, but it will not be of high quality
  • Develop something of high quality and low cost, but it will take a long time

Now, the Frozen ride presents an interesting conundrum, in that all of the infrastructure is already in place, it's just an elaborate overlay, that includes the expansion of the neighboring plot of land.

Disney is still investing upwards of $80 - $100 million dollars for this expansion. In contrast, Cedar Point just unveiled their brand new floorless coaster called Rougarou and that cost only $12 million dollars. So, this is not a *cheap* expansion by any stretch of the imagination, Disney could build 10 Rougarou coasters for the price of this overlay. If we remove the existing infrastructure it would cost twice that or more.

I think the Frozen ride and expansion falls under quick and of high quality but costly.

"Creating a larger dissociative disorder with Epcot is the problem."
^^^ All I can is wow to the above comment -- it raises so many red flags and is by far one of the most bizarre comments I have ever read.

I seriously don't know of any credible mental health professional, or anyone with expertise in this particular field of practice that would feel confident in throwing out random diagnoses of mental illness to label strangers on the internet, in hopes of illustrating a point about an amusement park ride.

And, sadly I have seen this kind of thing done here before. It's incredibly spiteful, if anything it hurts your credibility and highlights your inability to convey a simple opinion about an amusement park ride without resorting to desperate ad hom fallacy type attacks. You have just demonstrated to everyone, how low you are willing to stoop, in order to prove a point that is purely subjective anyway, so take a good look in the mirror.

Just relax, and think carefully about exercising caution when writing your responses. Civil discourse should be fun and engaging -- we don't have to be mean to each other. Seriously, such measures should only be applied when dealing with @wm49rs.

Not sure what you mean by "connecting the open space"? The M&G will fill in the space between Mexico and Norway, but it will not change the configuration of, or access to, the Norway pavilion in any way.
Thank you for answering my question. I was kind of hoping that the both spaces would be connected to where I can just walk right across, if that makes sense.

Frozen is not getting the attraction it deserves, primarily from management.

It's funny how only apologists deny this.
I acknowledge that Frozen deserves more. However, if you look at this objectively -- the only other alternative, is to wait for several years after Star Wars is completed, so this isn't quite so bad. Maelstrom needed an update anyway.
 

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
so...
you have a surprise hit on your hands that prints money...

So you take your time putting something together over a 1 and a half year period (Frozen was released Nov.2013) and come up with shoehorning an attraction into a low capacity ride system?

You have gigantic lines for a M&G...in a park which already has crowd problems.

Due to very poor execution of NFL which allowed for more bodies but only netted 1 attraction to soak up those bodies. M&Gs are always crowded now days, even the not Frozen characters draw crowds.

You decide this IP needs a ride....fast.

So you find one of the lowest capacity attractions in the parks and re-skin it around the ride system.

Preferably in a park that needs a little attendance boost.

You can't put more than 900 folks through it per hour operating at peak efficiency. At the same time, you haven't added additional park capacity. Boosting attendance will exacerbate the issue that less than 1/3 of the parks guests on a given day will be able to experience the attraction at current attendance levels. The M&G will suffer the same capacity problem, just in a new location.

you can choose DHS; but it would take much more time and money... of go for Epcot; which has
a ride that really needs a breath of fresh air. (and wich already has the infrastructure for the ride)

DHS has the space for a world class set of Frozen based attractions and a SEVERE lack of attractions in the park overall. Malestrom was supposed to have an extensive refurb that was cancelled (or severely scaled back I can't remember which) due to budget.

You can launch this ride a year before avatarland opens.... so it might give a repeat visit from guests.
(instead of opening 2 big rides/lands in almost the same year)

You could easily build an attraction in the same time it is taking to re-skin this old one. Repeat visits come from quality attractions and well thought out themeing, etc... Not to mention all those "Once in a lifetime" guests I hear so much about, would probably disagree with you.

all this considered, if it was my company, I would take the exact same decision...

Remind me not to hire you for one of my companies.

*1023*
 
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