Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[AEfx]

wait what? Epcot Center has had whimsical creatures, Sea serpents, robots, and all kinds of stuff since opening day

In Future World. Not in WS. Just like people cry over this, they cried over Maelstrom to begin with - there just wasn't the Internet for folks to prattle on about it being the end of the world as we know it in 1988.

Sitting stagnant for 25 years means the only solution is replace an original ride with a cheap marketing tie in to an animated film?

See, this is that hyperbole that is why many of us have largely left this discussion. Not one single person has said this was the "ONLY" solution, or even the "BEST" solution - just that not everyone thinks this is the most tragic thing to ever happen. But there is no room for reasonable acceptance - if you aren't OUTRAGED you are "part of the problem" as is so ridiculously said throughout these discussions.

Disney could have upgraded and refreshed the show any time they wanted (there were even concepts in place for a refresh) Management opted not to until some slick imagineer wanted to impress his bosses by offering a cheap way to tear out the maelstrom set pieces to replace them with cliff note scenes from Frozen (may God have mercy on him/her when it's revealed who pitched this). So far the reaction is overwhelmingly negative.

Oh my gosh, could you heighten the drama just a little more? Surely we can come up with a "FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN!" angle here if you really try, LOL.

The "overwhelmingly negative" reaction is from folks who sit on Disney park sites or sit on Disney's Facebook page to be disgruntled.

If anyone HONESTLY thinks that this won't be a hit with guests, and much more popular than Malestrom ever was, they are delusional. There is just no nice way to put it. I know that giving the masses what they want is considered bad form, but seriously - folks that would never set foot in WS will be going there now. The average WDW guest is going to be incredibly happy to have a Frozen attraction, and there really is no denying that.

But I know, if you aren't completely against this one must be an apologist or a pixie duster - there is no room for anyone with a more middle-of-the-road or realistic view of what is happening, so unless your blood boils over this you aren't really a Disney fan, blah blah...when in truth, this is the most perfect example in awhile of rabid internet park fans being exceedingly unreasonable and not looking at the situation through anything than turd colored glasses.

 

[Suspirian]

it says trending for me

 

[Mike S]

In Future World. Not in WS. Just like people cry over this, they cried over Maelstrom to begin with - there just wasn't the Internet for folks to prattle on about it being the end of the world as we know it in 1988.



See, this is that hyperbole that is why many of us have largely left this discussion. Not one single person has said this was the "ONLY" solution, or even the "BEST" solution - just that not everyone thinks this is the most tragic thing to ever happen. But there is no room for reasonable acceptance - if you aren't OUTRAGED you are "part of the problem" as is so ridiculously said throughout these discussions.




Oh my gosh, could you heighten the drama just a little more? Surely we can come up with a "FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN!" angle here if you really try, LOL.

The "overwhelmingly negative" reaction is from folks who sit on Disney park sites or sit on Disney's Facebook page to be disgruntled.

If anyone HONESTLY thinks that this won't be a hit with guests, and much more popular than Malestrom ever was, they are delusional. There is just no nice way to put it. I know that giving the masses what they want is considered bad form, but seriously - folks that would never set foot in WS will be going there now. The average WDW guest is going to be incredibly happy to have a Frozen attraction, and there really is no denying that.

But I know, if you aren't completely against this one must be an apologist or a pixie duster - there is no room for anyone with a more middle-of-the-road or realistic view of what is happening, so unless your blood boils over this you aren't really a Disney fan, blah blah...when in truth, this is the most perfect example in awhile of rabid internet park fans being exceedingly unreasonable and not looking at the situation through anything than turd colored glasses.

Not many people have denied that the ride will be popular. In fact, one of the main concerns is that the capacity of the ride won't be able to handle the crowds it will attract. Add in the M&G and this could be a very bad situation when it opens. You thought Gringotts was bad when it wasn't running at full capacity yet? Just wait cause this ride will have a consistently low capacity from opening that won't get higher later. I really wonder how Disney will handle this cause even using the theater as queue space won't be enough imo.

 

[baloofigment14]

Hope you don't mind me using this as an avatar.

Sure, not mine actually, I found it on Twitter this morning so credit goes to whoever made it. I thought it look really cool, since it had a part from each section of the ride.
EDIT: The design is by a guy named Rob Yeo I found out.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I just can't do anything but laugh at statements like this. It's so absurd, because Maelstrom itself was once considered a "slap in the face" of "classic" WDW/Epcot because of it's non-basis on reality (trolls and Nordic Gods).

Nothing like sitting for 25 years stagnant to make something smell like roses, apparently.

That simply is not true. But it does further your nonsensical premise that Maelstrom is a loosely based fiction ride being replaced by a loosely based fiction ride. Maelstrom is actually a FACT based ride where everything included is factually a part of Norwegian history and culture. So I have plainly shown that your fiction based replaced by fiction based thingy is patently absurd and factually incorrect. Please don't repeat it again lest we think you're a fricken' moron.

And your "edutainment" take is equally as laughable. You claimed to not have known that trolls and such were part of Norways history even after riding Maelstrom, that explains the Spirit of Norway in the Norwegian Pavilion at Epcot and afterwards didn't understand the gist of the whole pavilion. Proudly proclaiming that "edutainment" doesn't work. Either the Imagineers are idiots, or you are. I will refrain from expressing my opinion on the question.

 

[AEfx]

That simply is not true. But it does further your nonsensical premise that Maelstrom is a loosely based fiction ride being replaced by a loosely based fiction ride. Maelstrom is actually a FACT based ride where everything included is factually a part of Norwegian history and culture. So I have plainly shown that your fiction based replaced by fiction based thingy is patently absurd and factually incorrect. Please don't repeat it again lest we think you're a fricken' moron.

TROLLS and GODS are not real. They are not facts.

They are fiction.

There really is no point to discussing that further, particularly with someone who would call me a moron because they disagree with me, and someone who has ignored the overwhelming evidence regarding the fiction of Frozen and it's deep connections to Norway which have been illustrated in the links I have provided from, you know, actual Norwegians. But what do they matter, right, because someone who visited WDW knows more than they do about their own country.

And our "edutainment" take is equally as laughable. You claimed to not have known that trolls and such were part of Norways history even after riding Maelstrom, that explains the Spirit of Norway in the Norwegian Pavilion at Epcot and afterwards didn't understand the gist of the whole pavilion. Either the Imagineers are idiots, or you are. I will refrain from expressing my opinion on the question.

That is not at all what was said - you are twisting it (as several others have) into something it wasn't. It's also selective memory - somehow a couple of you folks who simply were not able to understand what was actually said have kept it going for a 100+ pages now and conveniently ignored everything else. Like if somehow you can "prove" me wrong on one thing (which you can't, as you don't even understand the original point) that somehow my opinion is of a whole dismissible.

Since you have resorted to implying I am an idiot and a moron, simply because I am not crying up a storm and kicking and screaming like a child about a theme park ride - that's about all the time I'm going to give you. Your post speaks for itself - unreasonable, immature, and the perfect example of a disgruntled internet fan who has such extreme, one-sided opinions that it's like arguing with...well a disgruntled internet fan who stands behind their keyboard and thinks they are "winning" some invisible battle that doesn't even exist.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

TROLLS and GODS are not real. They are not facts.

They are fiction.

There really is no point to discussing that further, particularly with someone who would call me a moron because they disagree with me, and someone who has ignored the overwhelming evidence regarding the fiction of Frozen and it's deep connections to Norway which have been illustrated in the links I have provided from, you know, actual Norwegians. But what do they matter, right, because someone who visited WDW knows more than they do about their own country.



That is not at all what was said - you are twisting it (as several others have) into something it wasn't. It's also selective memory - somehow a couple of you folks who simply were not able to understand what was actually said have kept it going for a 100+ pages now and conveniently ignored everything else. Like if somehow you can "prove" me wrong on one thing (which you can't, as you don't even understand the original point) that somehow my opinion is of a whole dismissible.

Since you have resorted to implying I am an idiot and a moron, simply because I am not crying up a storm and kicking and screaming like a child about a theme park ride - that's about all the time I'm going to give you. Your post speaks for itself - unreasonable, immature, and the perfect example of a disgruntled internet fan who has such extreme, one-sided opinions that it's like arguing with...well a disgruntled internet fan who stands behind their keyboard and thinks they are "winning" some invisible battle that doesn't even exist.

I have already proven you wrong, but for the people that are slow on the uptake, Yes, trolls and Gods are NOT real they are fictional, but that does not negate the FACT that Trolls and Gods are factually part of Norse history. It can't be explained simpler than that. Trolls and Gods are factually part of Norwegian History. Anna and Elsa are in no way part of Norwegian history and culture. They were created in 2011 in Burbank California.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I just find it amusing that those that support this move are actively ing all over the Imagineers that created the place they love so dearly.

'The Imagineers that built Epcot were sooooo incompetent that they tried to build an educational worldly experience and all the managed to Imagineer was a generic shopping mall/bar.'

If a Unitard said that, you guys would field dress them like doe in season.

 

[AEfx]

Not many people have denied that the ride will be popular. In fact, one of the main concerns is that the capacity of the ride won't be able to handle the crowds it will attract. Add in the M&G and this could be a very bad situation when it opens. You thought Gringotts was bad when it wasn't running at full capacity yet? Just wait cause this ride will have a consistently low capacity from opening that won't get higher later. I really wonder how Disney will handle this cause even using the theater as queue space won't be enough imo.

Well, as to the first part - folks sure seem to think it's the end of the World, which is actually even more laughable if they think it will be popular. Because...having popular rides is a bad thing, right? But...it's not, it only is to disgruntled Drunkytown fans, LOL.

That said, I agree - capacity could very well be an issue. However, until we know more about what exactly is going to happen, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that it is being taken into account and will be adjusted accordingly. With the rumored budget and length of the downtime, I think they have some large queue changes and maybe even ride changes to accommodate folks. If it's another mess like BoG, then I'll join right in once we know that's the case in the chorus of criticism of that fact. But like I said, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Well, as to the first part - folks sure seem to think it's the end of the World, which is actually even more laughable if they think it will be popular. Because...having popular rides is a bad thing, right? But...it's not, it only is to disgruntled Drunkytown fans, LOL.

That said, I agree - capacity could very well be an issue. However, until we know more about what exactly is going to happen, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that it is being taken into account and will be adjusted accordingly. With the rumored budget and length of the downtime, I think they have some large queue changes and maybe even ride changes to accommodate folks. If it's another mess like BoG, then I'll join right in once we know that's the case in the chorus of criticism of that fact. But like I said, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

We know that the current ride system can handle 993/pph. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to have a concern about plugging a pop cultural phenom into a ride with such low capacity.

 

[AEfx]

I have already proven you wrong, but for the people that are slow on the uptake, Yes, trolls and Gods are NOT real they are fictional, but that does not negate the FACT that Trolls and Gods are factually part of Norse history. It can't be explained simpler than that. Trolls and Gods are factually part of Norwegian History. Anna and Elsa are in no way part of Norwegian history and culture. They were created in 2011 in Burbank California.

LOL, what is this obsession you have with "proving" anyone wrong?

Do you really think that if you "prove" me wrong (which assuredly, you have not, but let's play pretend than one set of opinions is "right" and one is "wrong") - it makes a tinkers darn worth of anything?

Does it excite you in your pants? I can't figure out why you have this need to use words like "moron" "idiot" and then in your last post above put "tard" at the end of a word? You do realize that is really offensive, right?

If you have to resort to such stuff to attempt to drown out anyone who is of a differing opinion of you, then it's your position that is weak - as if it really matters anyway, this is not a courtroom, no one is getting a settlement, or is going to change one thing about this - but you just have to hammer, don't you?

That said, no, of course Anna and Elsa are not themselves part of Norwegian history. That said, as you and a few other folks have conveniently dismissed, there are many connections between Norway - the land, themes, etc. - with Frozen. It's simply wrapped up in a different package.

In any case, Norway wins here - they have stated in news reports that they saw no uptick in tourism (the reason any country participates in WS to begin with) due to ever having an Epcot pavilion, but in just the first few months after Frozen tourism went up 1/3 - and I'm betting since Frozen just keeps getting bigger and bigger in the public eye, the numbers are going to continue like that. If Frozen has nothing to do with Norway, then it seems the Norwegian-influence deniers must be some special snowflakes because to the rest of the world, they are very much connected.

I just find it amusing that those that support this move are actively ing all over the Imagineers that created the place they love so dearly.

'The Imagineers that built Epcot were sooooo incompetent that they tried to build an educational worldly experience and all the managed to Imagineer was a generic shopping mall/bar.'

If a Unitard said that, you guys would field dress them like doe in season.

Again, with the language - guy. I don't like reporting people, but keep it up and someone will.

Also again, using your laughable hyperbole to "prove" a point "wrong" that no one ever made to begin with. Seriously, there is this religious/political furor that taints this entire discussion that must be fascinating to outside observers.

I don't think they were incompetent, I think they were brilliant - proof being the fact that they really convinced folks that it was more than a glorified shopping mall with paid entry by the countries to open up a gussied-up travel booth inside. They have people fighting for their illusion like their life depended on it - but like everything at Disney, it was just a swamp before they built the illusion over it. A very, very convincing one.

From the start, though, from the fact that they only built pavilions from countries who had folks willing to buy in, to the lack of attractions and focus on retail and dining space (love to see the numbers of square footage of pavilions and how it's divided up - has to be something like 80% of guest accessible areas in the place is retail/dining).

Folks like you go on and on about what an almost ethereal experience it was that is being destroyed, when in fact - it never really was to begin with. Folks act like it was some museum full of artifacts that is now being bulldozed into a McDonalds.

So no, they were not idiots at all - they were absolutely brilliant. They built a huge mall, gorgeously themed it, added some accents here and there (a few films, a brief ride in two countries), and somehow convinced folks that it was some vital cultural experience that somehow appeared in a swamp in Florida in the 1980's - and on top of it, they charge you a huge price just to walk around and spend more money.

It was absolutely brilliant - so brilliant, that even folks like yourself still cannot see the realities of what it really is and always has been - it's like they were L. Ron Hubbard, so convincing folks that they drop all logic and practical observation and simply buy into an ideology that was simply designed to drain your wallet to begin with. Disney in 1982 wasn't some altruistic organization, it's always been about making money, it's just that now they go about it a different way (which is lamentable, I agree). But this idea folks have that it was some grand monument to world cultures is belied by the fact that from the very beginning, it was money-driven - if someone in your country didn't pony up the cash, your culture isn't included. If it had been as some of you fantasize, and it really was more than it is - and that's a huge testament to the Imagineers that were able to convince you so than in spite of 30 years of evidence to the contrary, you simply are so focused on seeing it as this fantasy forest that when you realize the trees that make it up are largely illusions, you still cannot accept the forest for what it is (or is not).

 

[AEfx]

We know that the current ride system can handle 993/pph. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to have a concern about plugging a pop cultural phenom into a ride with such low capacity.

Can you show me where that invalidates anything I said? Do you have evidence that Disney has not adjusted or accounted for this? If you do, I'll join in - but since you don't know what solutions they may have come up with (and are assuming the ride system is staying exactly the same as is), until I see evidence otherwise, I'm not going to flip out about it.

I know that goes against the grain of "freak out instantly without evidence and purely based on speculation" route that some folks like to take - but I like to be a little more measured and reasonable and only freak out when we have an actual reason to, not a "possible" reason to.

 

[Captain Neo]

You mean this video? Found it easily by searching for the comment I made on it

Really looks like an unpopular park. It desperately needed character rides to keep people interested

Epcot used to be so great and then WDW1974 wonders why I hate Eisner and his ilk

 

[JEANYLASER]

I wanted to know what is going to happen to the preshow film Spirit of Norway?

 

[Captain Neo]

TROLLS and GODS are not real. They are not facts.

They are fiction.

But they are part of Norway's religion and culture. Where is this rule stated that World Showcase cannot have anything supernatural??? You can't just make up stuff to win an argument.

 

[sedati]

Where was the outrage when they put the Lion King in Africa? (different Park I know, but one with similar goals) Lion King is not based on any African story, just an incredibly popular Disney creation based mostly off of Hamlet. And how can they even call it Africa! Where in the real world is this Harambe! Outrage! Outrage! Iger is cheap!?!

 

[aladdin2007]

I wanted to know what is going to happen to the preshow film Spirit of Norway?

It will be gone, never to be seen again except on youtube.

 

[Mike S]

LOL, what is this obsession you have with "proving" anyone wrong?

Do you really think that if you "prove" me wrong (which assuredly, you have not, but let's play pretend than one set of opinions is "right" and one is "wrong") - it makes a tinkers darn worth of anything?

Does it excite you in your pants? I can't figure out why you have this need to use words like "moron" "idiot" and then in your last post above put "tard" at the end of a word? You do realize that is really offensive, right?

If you have to resort to such stuff to attempt to drown out anyone who is of a differing opinion of you, then it's your position that is weak - as if it really matters anyway, this is not a courtroom, no one is getting a settlement, or is going to change one thing about this - but you just have to hammer, don't you?

That said, no, of course Anna and Elsa are not themselves part of Norwegian history. That said, as you and a few other folks have conveniently dismissed, there are many connections between Norway - the land, themes, etc. - with Frozen. It's simply wrapped up in a different package.

In any case, Norway wins here - they have stated in news reports that they saw no uptick in tourism (the reason any country participates in WS to begin with) due to ever having an Epcot pavilion, but in just the first few months after Frozen tourism went up 1/3 - and I'm betting since Frozen just keeps getting bigger and bigger in the public eye, the numbers are going to continue like that. If Frozen has nothing to do with Norway, then it seems the Norwegian-influence deniers must be some special snowflakes because to the rest of the world, they are very much connected.



Again, with the language - guy. I don't like reporting people, but keep it up and someone will.

Also again, using your laughable hyperbole to "prove" a point "wrong" that no one ever made to begin with. Seriously, there is this religious/political furor that taints this entire discussion that must be fascinating to outside observers.

I don't think they were incompetent, I think they were brilliant - proof being the fact that they really convinced folks that it was more than a glorified shopping mall with paid entry by the countries to open up a gussied-up travel booth inside. They have people fighting for their illusion like their life depended on it - but like everything at Disney, it was just a swamp before they built the illusion over it. A very, very convincing one.

From the start, though, from the fact that they only built pavilions from countries who had folks willing to buy in, to the lack of attractions and focus on retail and dining space (love to see the numbers of square footage of pavilions and how it's divided up - has to be something like 80% of guest accessible areas in the place is retail/dining).

Folks like you go on and on about what an almost ethereal experience it was that is being destroyed, when in fact - it never really was to begin with. Folks act like it was some museum full of artifacts that is now being bulldozed into a McDonalds.

So no, they were not idiots at all - they were absolutely brilliant. They built a huge mall, gorgeously themed it, added some accents here and there (a few films, a brief ride in two countries), and somehow convinced folks that it was some vital cultural experience that somehow appeared in a swamp in Florida in the 1980's - and on top of it, they charge you a huge price just to walk around and spend more money.

It was absolutely brilliant - so brilliant, that even folks like yourself still cannot see the realities of what it really is and always has been - it's like they were L. Ron Hubbard, so convincing folks that they drop all logic and practical observation and simply buy into an ideology that was simply designed to drain your wallet to begin with. Disney in 1982 wasn't some altruistic organization, it's always been about making money, it's just that now they go about it a different way (which is lamentable, I agree). But this idea folks have that it was some grand monument to world cultures is belied by the fact that from the very beginning, it was money-driven - if someone in your country didn't pony up the cash, your culture isn't included. If it had been as some of you fantasize, and it really was more than it is - and that's a huge testament to the Imagineers that were able to convince you so than in spite of 30 years of evidence to the contrary, you simply are so focused on seeing it as this fantasy forest that when you realize the trees that make it up are largely illusions, you still cannot accept the forest for what it is (or is not).

If cultures weren't included if no one from the country paid why were Canada and China built? They didn't have any participant when EPCOT Center opened.

 

[AEfx]

But they are part of Norway's religion and culture. Where is this rule stated that World Showcase cannot have anything supernatural??? You can't just make up stuff to win an argument.

LOL, you can't? Sure seems like a lot of that going around these days. Good to know.

Seriously, though - step back, clear your mind, and imagine WS as it was in 1987. (It's not too difficult, as so little has changed - just minus out Norway). Until then, there were no "supernatural" elements other than a few decorations on buildings - and then an entire attraction is added which is almost entirely based on "supernatural" elements (the lone notable exception the oil rig at the end). At the time, it really did not "fit" into what was there, because folks were expecting/waiting for the "travelogue" style rides that were originally proposed.

So yes, Malestrom itself was the first pull away from that "realistic" cultural illusion experience that was supposedly the ethos of WS. And folks were just as up in arms about it - there just wasn't an Internet for them to express this on, much less the culture of entitlement that has grown around WDW and Disney parks in general due to the Internet making everything feel as if they have a say in what the WDC does with their property.

 

[AEfx]

I wanted to know what is going to happen to the preshow film Spirit of Norway?

Into the trash heap - where most folks would agree it belongs, up until now, of course, that Norway is holy territory on the level of Cinderella Castle and Carousel of Progress - if you search for discussion, the most discussion about Norway over the past decade has been about that film, and tips and tricks about how to get around having to watch it.