Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[BigTxEars]

Yes, pillaged. Pillaged of parades, trolley cars, entertainment, rides, and pavilions. All of which were there on Opening Day and for many years after. So no, EP was not pillaged from Day One, only well afterwards....

It was pillaged from it's original concept so your right it was pillaged before day one. I stand corrected.

 

[Mike S]

It was pillaged from it's original concept so your right it was pillaged before day one. I stand corrected.

The change from E.P.C.O.T the city to EPCOT Center the theme park is no way to justify this change of Norway to becoming focused on Frozen as the main attraction. I'm judging this change based on the ideas and vision of the amazing theme park that opened on October 1st, 1982 where a Fantasyland style ride would not fit at all and should not be justified.

 

[Admiral01]

Great. That does not mean other people could not or would not enjoy it more with characters. WDW was not built for anyone person to enjoy just the way they want to. Folks have to share it and that means nobody is getting just they way they want it ever.

You are absolutely correct - WDW is not built for any one person's enjoyment. But the way things are going, that is exactly the way WDW is heading - geared only toward those people who have such a short attention span, and have such little regard for cultured things, that they don't want to explore new things to see if THEY will enjoy it the way it is, instead of complain all the time. And then we hear the excuse that kids need something to interest them too. I was plenty interested in Norway and Maelstrom as a 7 year old when it opened...just like I am today as a 33 year old as they are preparing to destroy another classic attraction at EPCOT in favor of the synergized cartoon flavor of the year.

I don't complain about the MK being so character focused. I don't walk around Fantasyland and complain about there not being anything geared for me, an adult. WDW is a playground for all ages, but increasingly only a playground focused on getting kids to want their parents to purchase a meet-and-greet picture, and a copy of Frozen on DVD.

I think the problem is that those of us who like EPCOT the way it is (or the way it was) are essentially being told "your enjoyment and patronage doesn't matter." MK is a whole park for the kind of people who enjoy that sort of thing. Why then does EPCOT need to adjust when EPCOT itself has a loyal following who wants the sort of things EPCOT offers?

 

[BigTxEars]

The original idea of E.P.C.O.T the city, like the Western River Expedition, Beastly Kingdom and other such projects, was never built and is irrelevant to what was eventually built in Walt Disney World. You're the only one who's brining it up in a sad attempt to justify this change. I'm judging it based on the theme and vision of the theme park that opened on October 1st, 1982 in which a Fantasyland style ride based entirely on a Disney animated movie would not and should not fit.

Do you think the park is what it was 30 years ago today? I don't and I don't think it has been for years and years. It's evolving just as it always has. This is just one more move along that evolution IMO.

Some on here are claiming the original vision of Epcot is at stark with this move, as if this move will destroy the vision of Epcot. It just one more step in the changes that have been occurring for years. Frozen just makes it a much higher profile move than most.

 

[Mike S]

Do you think the park is what it was 30 years ago today? I don't and I don't think it has been for years and years. It's evolving just as it always has. This is just one more move along that evolution IMO.

Some on here are claiming the original vision of Epcot is at stark with this move, as if this move will destroy the vision of Epcot. It just one more step in the changes that have been occurring for years. Frozen just makes it a much higher profile move than most.

I've edited my original post a bit. I will end this by saying previous bad decisions do not justify more of them. Also Epcot is not evolving, it's been devolving.

 

[BigTxEars]

You are absolutely correct - WDW is not built for any one person's enjoyment. But the way things are going, that is exactly the way WDW is heading - geared only toward those people who have such a short attention span, and have such little regard for cultured things, that they don't want to explore new things to see if THEY will enjoy it the way it is, instead of complain all the time. And then we hear the excuse that kids need something to interest them too. I was plenty interested in Norway and Maelstrom as a 7 year old when it opened...just like I am today as a 33 year old as they are preparing to destroy another classic attraction at EPCOT in favor of the synergized cartoon flavor of the year.

I don't complain about the MK being so character focused. I don't walk around Fantasyland and complain about there not being anything geared for me, an adult. WDW is a playground for all ages, but increasingly only a playground focused on getting kids to want their parents to purchase a meet-and-greet picture, and a copy of Frozen on DVD.

I think the problem is that those of us who like EPCOT the way it is (or the way it was) are essentially being told "your enjoyment and patronage doesn't matter." MK is a whole park for the kind of people who enjoy that sort of thing. Why then does EPCOT need to adjust when EPCOT itself has a loyal following who wants the sort of things EPCOT offers?

I would guess WDW see potential for more revenue at Epcot with Frozen than without it. What were the numbers at Epcot with the M&G compared to before and after it? I would guess they like the numbers they had during the M&G. More tickets, more park hoppers, more people eating in WS since they are there already etc....makes business sense IMO.

As I posted earlier WS is a huge retailtainment area IMO, has been for year. They do indeed want guest to shop and eat more while there, Frozen should accomplish that. But lets not forget we can all buy a cheap plastic pair of viking horns in Norway tonight or a number of other cheap gifts, it's hardly an area set up to discourage us from spending money now. This is just a move to get a more popular item in the area, the number one animated movie of all time no less. I am not buying horns or a Olaf doll myself, but I will stuff my face there

 

[ryan1]

You are absolutely correct - WDW is not built for any one person's enjoyment. But the way things are going, that is exactly the way WDW is heading - geared only toward those people who have such a short attention span, and have such little regard for cultured things, that they don't want to explore new things to see if THEY will enjoy it the way it is, instead of complain all the time. And then we hear the excuse that kids need something to interest them too. I was plenty interested in Norway and Maelstrom as a 7 year old when it opened...just like I am today as a 33 year old as they are preparing to destroy another classic attraction at EPCOT in favor of the synergized cartoon flavor of the year.

I don't complain about the MK being so character focused. I don't walk around Fantasyland and complain about there not being anything geared for me, an adult. WDW is a playground for all ages, but increasingly only a playground focused on getting kids to want their parents to purchase a meet-and-greet picture, and a copy of Frozen on DVD.

I think the problem is that those of us who like EPCOT the way it is (or the way it was) are essentially being told "your enjoyment and patronage doesn't matter." MK is a whole park for the kind of people who enjoy that sort of thing. Why then does EPCOT need to adjust when EPCOT itself has a loyal following who wants the sort of things EPCOT offers?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The placement of Frozen in WS does not equate to placing a McDonalds in WS IMO. It's a Disney license thru and thru and fits at a Disney theme park. I don't think nearly as many kids would say "let's go to WS so we can get a happy meal as will say let's go to ride Frozen".....

But moose nuggets with maple dipping sauce might be a big draw

Spoken just like one who does not like theme parks. World Showcase is Disney because it was its own creation, not because it was your chance to surround yourself with media you already know.

 

[BigTxEars]

I've edited my original post a bit. I will end this by saying previous bad decisions do not justify more of them. Also Epcot is not evolving, it's been devolving.

Your opinion and as valid as any other, but not more so. But I love Turtle Time With Crush so some would question my taste.

 

[wm49rs]

I would guess WDW see potential for more revenue at Epcot with Frozen than without it. What were the numbers at Epcot with the M&G compared to before and after it? I would guess they like the numbers they had during the M&G. More tickets, more park hoppers, more people eating in WS since they are there already etc....makes business sense IMO.

As I posted earlier WS is a huge retailtainment area IMO, has been for year. They do indeed want guest to shop and eat more while there, Frozen should accomplish that. But lets not forget we can all buy a cheap plastic pair of viking horns in Norway tonight or a number of other cheap gifts, it's hardly an area set up to discourage us from spending money now. This is just a move to get a more popular item in the area, the number one animated movie of all time no less. I am not buying horns or a Olaf doll myself, but I will stuff my face there

And if they were truly interested in great numbers, they would build a proper area for it, instead of forcing it into the pavilion of an actual country in EP....

 

[jt04]

I would guess WDW see potential for more revenue at Epcot with Frozen than without it. What were the numbers at Epcot with the M&G compared to before and after it? I would guess they like the numbers they had during the M&G. More tickets, more park hoppers, more people eating in WS since they are there already etc....makes business sense IMO.

As I posted earlier WS is a huge retailtainment area IMO, has been for year. They do indeed want guest to shop and eat more while there, Frozen should accomplish that. But lets not forget we can all buy a cheap plastic pair of viking horns in Norway tonight or a number of other cheap gifts, it's hardly an area set up to discourage us from spending money now. This is just a move to get a more popular item in the area, the number one animated movie of all time no less. I am not buying horns or a Olaf doll myself, but I will stuff my face there

It may make more sense thematically if they do a sequel. That is just my thinking. IMO.

I suspect this is true for the World of Pandora too. Time will tell.

 

[BigTxEars]

And if they were truly interested in great numbers, they would build a proper area for it, instead of forcing it into the pavilion of an actual country in EP....

I have no issue with them building larger somewhere else, never have. But they are building in WS and that will get them better numbers than they are currently getting there. That is the point I made. It's a balance of different factors like so many business moves inside and outside of WDW.

 

[BigTxEars]

It may make more sense thematically if they do a sequel. That is just my thinking. IMO.

I suspect this is true for the World of Pandora too. Time will tell.

Oh I hope they don't. But if they do please not a direct to DVD sequel, those suck most of the time. The movie has legs enough to carry a ride for decades. Heck LM just got her ride and it was not because of crappy DVD sequels to the original IMO.

 

[wm49rs]

I have no issue with them building larger somewhere else, never have. But they are building in WS and that will get them better numbers than they are currently getting there. That is the point I made. It's a balance of different factors like so many business moves inside and outside of WDW.

EP already gets very good numbers throughout the year, in no small part due to it's size.

And there is no balance, no matter how you want to justify it, rationalize it, or insinuate those opposed to this idea are somehow channeling Walt Disney directly. This is a decision being made to introduce a fictional land over a real one, for the sake of capitalizing on a movie. Nothing more or less....

 

[lazyboy97o]

I have no issue with them building larger somewhere else, never have. But they are building in WS and that will get them better numbers than they are currently getting there. That is the point I made. It's a balance of different factors like so many business moves inside and outside of WDW.

It won't produce better numbers because the space won't be significantly larger.

 

[xstech25]

Epcot did not get great reviews when it opened and many even said it was "boring." You all can keep glorifying it all you want: but having a park geared towards adults and families with small kids, compared to a park geared only towards the older crowd, makes good business sense.

Keep complaining and seeing it fall on deaf ears: Disney lives by the laws of supply & demand not the laws of what the hardcore fans want.

 

[BigTxEars]

EP already gets very good numbers throughout the year, in no small part due to it's size.

And there is no balance, no matter how you want to justify it, rationalize it, or insinuate those opposed to this idea are somehow channeling Walt Disney directly. This is a decision being made to introduce a fictional land over a real one, for the sake of capitalizing on a movie. Nothing more or less....

What for profit business settle for for the current ROI when they can increase it? Throw in the fact that this will make a huge amount of guest happy and it's a no brainer, throw in the cost factor of coveting instead of building and it's not even much of a question from a business perspective.

And I have said for pages and pages this entire thing is to capitalize on the popularity of Frozen at the lowest cost to WDW, we have never disagreed on that.

 

[Mike S]

Epcot did not get great reviews when it opened and many even said it was "boring." You all can keep glorifying it all you want: but having a park geared towards adults and families with small kids, compared to a park geared only towards the older crowd, makes good business sense.

Keep complaining and seeing it fall on deaf ears: Disney lives by the laws of supply & demand not the laws of what the hardcore fans want.

If the park was only geared to adults then how did some of us here grow our love for the park as kids? We should've been bored out of our minds but that's not how it happened is it? Very strange indeed.

 

[wm49rs]

What for profit business settle for for the current ROI when they can increase it? Throw in the fact that this will make a huge amount of guest happy and it's a no brainer, throw in the cost factor of coveting instead of building and it's not even much of a question from a business perspective.

And I have said for pages and pages this entire thing is to capitalize on the popularity of Frozen at the lowest cost to WDW, we have never disagreed on that.

Disney has had no issue crowing about their quarterly profits on a regular basis, with the current lineup (pavilion, entertainment, and attractions) at EP playing no small role.

And if they wanted a true ROI, let them build a proper land, with multiple rides and the like. But this is not the case, no matter how anyone wants to justify it, or insult those who don't agree....

 

[BigTxEars]

Epcot did not get great reviews when it opened and many even said it was "boring." You all can keep glorifying it all you want: but having a park geared towards adults and families with small kids, compared to a park geared only towards the older crowd, makes good business sense.

Keep complaining and seeing it fall on deaf ears: Disney lives by the laws of supply & demand not the laws of what the hardcore fans want.

As all business does, at least the ones who survive and thirve. That is why MLB has fallen from it lofty perch atop the sports world in America and the NFL has climbed to unimagiabble heights in popularity. I am a MLB season ticket holder and have not watched a NFL gave in over 10 years, it hurts to admit it but MLB got it's butt kicked because it tried to stay to close to it's roots when it's customers were yelling for change. Heck at least we have instant reply now I guess The NFL on the other hand gave the fans what they wanted and they are doing fairly well these days. I think MLB is a superior product to the NFL myself but that is not how the vast majority of America sees it.