DisneyPrincess5
Well-Known Member
Yeeeaah! Scrap the buses and hook the whole place up to the monorail!! (also ambitious)
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Disney Co pledges to Reduce Carbon Emissions to Zero
- Thread starter devoy1701
- Start date
markjohns1
Member
I'm not sure why there is so much skepticism. Green solutions have come a long way, and it doesn't always translate to increased costs or poor efficiency. As TP2000 pointed out, there are a lot of green solutions already in place at other Disney Parks that could easily be implemented in WDW. Converting the fryer oil to biodiesel seems like a no brainer to me. I highly recommend checking out the "Build It Bigger: Greensburg" episodes to get an idea what can be achieved these days on a smaller scale (typically on Discovery or the Science channel).
Looking at the list of goals cited in the press release, they are striving for zero waste, and minimizing water use in addition to achieving zero net direct greenhouse gas emissions and a reduction in indirect greenhouse gas emissions. Waste and water use really have nothing to do with carbon offsets. The direct and indirect greenhouse gas emissions do involve carbon offsets and RECs, but it doesn't appear they will exclusively use those to achieve the emission goals. That probably would cost to much to achieve.
Regardless, I think it's great that TWDC is making this move. And really, if it even translates to a higher ticket price that is fine with me. I'd rather pay more for an actual beneficial reason, as opposed to inflation or some undisclosed reason.
I'm not seeing anywhere in any of the press releases or TWDC report that indicates this will all be achieved through purchasing carbon offsets or RECs. As an example, the article says "To get to zero net direct emissions, Disney plans to find efficiencies to cut emissions and to replace high-carbon fuels with low-carbon alternatives, then use 'high-quality offsets' for what is left." That seems to indicate to me that we may very well see natural gas, biodiesel, or hybrid buses, and use offsets for the carbon produced from those solutions. Buses were the first thing most of us thought of, and I'd have to imagine TWDC is thinking the same thing.
Looking at the list of goals cited in the press release, they are striving for zero waste, and minimizing water use in addition to achieving zero net direct greenhouse gas emissions and a reduction in indirect greenhouse gas emissions. Waste and water use really have nothing to do with carbon offsets. The direct and indirect greenhouse gas emissions do involve carbon offsets and RECs, but it doesn't appear they will exclusively use those to achieve the emission goals. That probably would cost to much to achieve.
I'm pretty sure renewable sources of energy would be the cleanest, such as wind and solar energy.
It'd be nice to see the monorail brought back up in conversation at TWDC.
Regardless, I think it's great that TWDC is making this move. And really, if it even translates to a higher ticket price that is fine with me. I'd rather pay more for an actual beneficial reason, as opposed to inflation or some undisclosed reason.
Timon
Well-Known Member
WDW already uses Compressed Naturals Gas virtually everywhere. The RCES Co-Generation Power plant makes electricity of course and hot and cold chilled water for the MK, and nearby hotels. CNG is currently used on the Jungle Cruise, Main St Vehicles, some boats. The Disneyland Paris park trains run on CNG why not WDW. While bio-diesel is OK by recycling, CNG is much cleaner and actually saves maintenance costs. CNG buses are probably cheaper than Fuel Cell buses and available today.
Fuel cells are great but can make buses cost twice as much, but will probably be the answer in the future.
Solar-electric is probably too costly and inefficient for a place the size of WDW. Today, a Solar-thermal system could generate steam to make electricity, hot and chilled water quite easily for peak daytime needs. It could tie into Disney existing systems quite easily.
Progess Energy (Disney power provider) is in the early stages of designing their first nuclear power plant in Levy County which will aide in off setting Disney's carbon footprint.
Fuel cells are great but can make buses cost twice as much, but will probably be the answer in the future.
Solar-electric is probably too costly and inefficient for a place the size of WDW. Today, a Solar-thermal system could generate steam to make electricity, hot and chilled water quite easily for peak daytime needs. It could tie into Disney existing systems quite easily.
Progess Energy (Disney power provider) is in the early stages of designing their first nuclear power plant in Levy County which will aide in off setting Disney's carbon footprint.
Polyman
Active Member
Oh yeah, they're off to a great start. Have you seen the new fleet of Hybrid Chevy Equinox's that Security is using at Epcot? They operate just the opposite of a Toyota Prius for example. The Prius runs on the electric motor until it reaches highway speed, at which time it switches over to gasoline. Security's Equinoxes run on gasoline until they reach about 25 mph, then the hybrid portion kicks in. Unfortunately, during their use in the parking lot, they rarely reach speeds of over 15 mph. So all the idling while they sit, and while on patrol up and down the rows, they are using gasoline. One Security CM recently told me he's getting about 12 mpg. You can get 12 mpg on an RV or Hummer. How's that for Green? :brick::hammer:
Timon
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately Disney has hitched it's vehicle wagon to GM. If they wanted to stay American they could have gone to Ford and have been driving the Escape SUV Hybrid's 34city/31hwy for four years now or the Fusion Hybrid sedan 41city/36hwy. Their fleet needs to switch over ASAP and not be locked to one brand. For example Nission makes a CNG sedan. And lots of bigger vehicles have conversions availible.
hokielutz
Well-Known Member
Amen to those sentiments.
But with GM running on fumes and begging for more bailout from Congress, its possible for Disney to switch to another company.....
hokielutz
Well-Known Member
The drawback to these is they are less efficient and require a larger physical footprint than the aformentioned nuclear plant. With the parks running 18 hours a day, wind and especially solar won't meet the needs all the time.
If anything, an OFFSITE wind or Solar farm could provide power to some of the parks on ideal days, but a nuclear, Natural gas, or coal generation system would need to have the capacity to handle 100% of the operations. Last thing needed is brownouts while folks are on rides.
markjohns1
Member
Yeah, they are certainly less efficient. I don't think the goal would need to be for wind/solar farms to provide all of WDW's power needs, at least not initially. Wind/solar are clean sources of energy, and the more they are used to supplement power use, the greater the reduction in direct or indirect carbon emissions. Why not add solar panels to backstage buildings, the tops of hotels, or any other structures that wouldn't be visually impacted by their installation? While not the most efficient at this time, it will help offset the use of environmentally harmful sources of power (the whole idea right?). As technology improves, as it inevitably will, more efficient panels can take place of those already installed.
They could also take steps to use less power in the first place. Installing solar tube lighting systems, like those done by Solatube, would allow artificial light usage to decrease dramatically during the day. That could easily lead to decreased power costs, and you can't get much cleaner than natural light. Besides, wouldn't it be nice to get natural light when inside anyways?
Figment1986
Well-Known Member
Disney has more than one power company helping with their power needs...
Progress has been investing in nuclear power for years... the Crystal River complex was one of the last nuclear stations built if i remember.. and they are right now going through the red tape for a new nuclear complex miles away from crystal river... Though TECO does invest in new ideas including the Polk Unit 1 Power Plant which reduces carbon emitions considerably.. Granted it is not 0, but it is better than other coal plants.
I don't see any power company going 0 soon, as it takes YEARS to go through the red tape to build a nuclear station... and then if everyone had new ones the current waste facilities would become full, though many are working on including more Solar panels around the areas that do get plenty of sun and wnt turbines when possible.
Figment632
New Member
Does this mean a refurb of the TL speedway for electric cars?
Uncle Lupe
Well-Known Member
You could turn the parking lots into covered lots with solar panels on the roof. Also small wind turbine on large scales can make a big difference.
http://idealityincorporated.com/idealities/?p=145
http://idealityincorporated.com/idealities/?p=145
TP2000
Well-Known Member
The roofs of all the big attraction show buildings could have solar panels installed.
Just at Disneyland alone there are many large buildings with flat roofs baking daily in the golden California sun;
it's a small world
Pirates of the Caribbean
Indiana Jones Adventure
Haunted Mansion
Splash Mountain
Innoventions
Not to mention the smaller flat roofs of Fantasyland, Main Street USA, Mickey's Toontown, Star Tours, Buzz Lightyear, etc.
Just at Disneyland alone there are many large buildings with flat roofs baking daily in the golden California sun;
it's a small world
Pirates of the Caribbean
Indiana Jones Adventure
Haunted Mansion
Splash Mountain
Innoventions
Not to mention the smaller flat roofs of Fantasyland, Main Street USA, Mickey's Toontown, Star Tours, Buzz Lightyear, etc.
harryk
Well-Known Member
All sounds fine -- but if you don't maintain solar cells as it appears that it has not been done so well at Universe of Energy when I look at the roof cells which have holes in them.
Disney had intended to keep up with energy development at WDW but I don't see it when I visit each year.
I expected to see a lot of solar energy being used, waterless lavatories, electric transportation -- where is it?
Maybe they are still working on it - and if so -- it should be posted for all to see when we visit WDW.
Monorail and MagLev transportation has not been utilized to replace gas busses. Converting the bus transport system to propane as LL Bean has provided Friends of Acadia at Acadia National Park would be a step forward.
Going Green is a Dream - which someday we may see come true.
Disney had intended to keep up with energy development at WDW but I don't see it when I visit each year.
I expected to see a lot of solar energy being used, waterless lavatories, electric transportation -- where is it?
Maybe they are still working on it - and if so -- it should be posted for all to see when we visit WDW.
Monorail and MagLev transportation has not been utilized to replace gas busses. Converting the bus transport system to propane as LL Bean has provided Friends of Acadia at Acadia National Park would be a step forward.
Going Green is a Dream - which someday we may see come true.
Hybrid technology of today is a joke! There is nothing to brag about when a hybrid engine gets 34mpg. They were surpassing that back in the 70s...we just happened to regress a bit. Seriously, the technology we have today will be obsolete within a decade. The real answer is getting off the combustion engine.
And as for Nuclear power...it is the cleanest AND most efficient energy source today. And I believe the analogy about nuclear waste was that all of the waste produced by US Nuclear power plants since we started using Nuclear energy would fit into a room the size of a High School Gym with room left over. Limiting and storing nuclear waste has gotten grossly more efficient since we started using the technology. There are just too many hurdles to jump through because of activists here and environmentalists (not to mention their scare tactics) that make it way too difficult and expensive to build a new nuclear plant.
And as for Nuclear power...it is the cleanest AND most efficient energy source today. And I believe the analogy about nuclear waste was that all of the waste produced by US Nuclear power plants since we started using Nuclear energy would fit into a room the size of a High School Gym with room left over. Limiting and storing nuclear waste has gotten grossly more efficient since we started using the technology. There are just too many hurdles to jump through because of activists here and environmentalists (not to mention their scare tactics) that make it way too difficult and expensive to build a new nuclear plant.
Correct on all fronts. My wifes Saturn SL2's MPG is shy of what the hybrids are getting and costs considerably less. IMHO cars like the Chevy Volt that can run a moderate distance entirely on electric power with a small internal combustion engine as a back up are are immediate future. Once photovoltaics get a little better hydrogen fuel cells will become a reality.
Nuclear is by far the cleanest, cheapest and most plentiful energy source we currently have. New reactor technology produces considerably less nuclear waste and they border on foolproof in terms of reliability.
I think our biggest problem when it comes to energy production in this country are the extremists on both sides. One side could care less about the future and our environment while the other side would have us living in hemp tents. There is a solution somewhere in the middle but unfortunately the extremists are in control at the moment.
Figment632
New Member
If we are talking monorail expansion I am for it but I think a new fleet of busses is a waste of money since the current one is not that old.
markjohns1
Member
At this stage I think the solution is that there is no single, perfect source of power. While nuclear is the cheapest and most efficient power source, the fact that it produces any waste means it is not the cleanest. Cleaner than coal? By a mile. Cleaner than solar, wind, geothermal, hydro? Not a chance. I think the key is to use a combination of power sources, not only to provide redundancy, but the more renewable sources utilized, the lower the environmental impact.
With Disney making green a priority, I think they might put a little more effort into solar panel upkeep. I think a big reason why Disney is making this move is because they haven't been keeping up with energy development and people are noticing. The issues at WDW also probably have to do with TDO's hesitance to spend money on anything, which is good that this initiative is coming from Iger and intended for all Disney properties.
But it's not all about finding perfect sources of power or fuel. What about using less power in the first place? Construct buildings more efficiently. Utilize alternative ways to heat, cool, and illuminate buildings. Waterless lavatories would be a huge savings on water too.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
So thats the reason for cutting back fireworks. They could turn off all those ostentatious xmas lights too.
They switched to LED's so they are all good there.
