News Disney CEO Bob Chapek reiterates his belief that park reservations are now an essential part of Disney's theme parks business

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant!!

If they're selling too many $6.49 Dole Whips and not enough $13.50 Cookies-n-Cream funnel cakes, they can shut off the Dole Whip machine.
That’s exactly what they are doing only they are closing mobile order lines which sends guests to other quick serve options.

So why haven't they doubled the price on everything already? If they could easily shed half of their existing customers, doubling the price shouldn't be a barrier to accomplishing that goal.
Raising ticket prices 10% at a time (like they just did at Disneyland) will double the prices pretty quick.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I think that's the point here Disney is really trying to make: they don't need massive volumes of people to keep the parks running.

My baseline here is thinking back to the late 1990s when the parks were reaching 12/13 million people a year (a new record every year) and thinking it couldn't possibly go higher than that. Magic Kingdom at 20 million guests per year, could easily shed 50% of their attendance and still beat their best years of the 70s and 80s.

They don't have to be a volume business and from their comments, it seems Disney is increasingly seeing the downside in being one.
You're essentially just talking about Magic Kingdom, though. Even the massively reduced 2021 numbers suggest an average of almost 100,000 people showing up every day to visit their 4 parks, ignoring the water parks. That's a lot of people to lure to Central Florida to pay premium prices day in day out when people have plenty of other options for how to spend their leisure time. They also have to lure them away from competing world-class theme parks nearby.

Perhaps demand for Magic Kingdom is such that it can remain successful for the foreseeable future. They have three other theme parks, two water parks, a shopping district, and tens of thousands of hotel rooms they also have to keep busy, however. In that context, I can entirely imagine the scenario outlined by @lazyboy97o a few pages back where the company manages to alienate too many of its customers and then flails around not knowing how to attract enough people back to make a resort the size of WDW viable.
 
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gil22

New Member
He doesn't care about the customer's experience so long as the customer is still paying. As long time annual passholders before the pandemic we will always plan our trips during the slow times at Disneyland. We will typically always avoid spring break, the summertime, and the Christmas holiday week. And sometimes we would just Go during a busy time and just deal with it. We didn't buy new magic key pass thing. But we have purchased regular tickets and went to the park with this new reservation system. We ended up going at the end of summer and it was just as busy as a regular end of summer busy day was in the past. The only time this Disney executive will care is if people stop paying. Even when we had our annual passes and we went to Disneyland we would still spend a couple thousand dollars there on food and merchandise. Those Days have come to an end and maybe we'll visit once a year we'll see.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
But yes, they put themselves in quite the pickle with the significant loss of capacity in EPCOT and the lack of any new additional capacity resort-wide for roughly a decade. They're playing catch-up.

What catch up? If their primary product is going to be food and merch, adding attraction capacity makes no sense from a logistical or financial standpoint. If you mean to say they need to add more capacity to their special merch offerings, maybe that's the case... maybe.
When you give away admissions thru discounting, its easier to drive attendance with seasonal offerings. They don't need new attractions to drive attendance, they need new popcorn buckets and new cupcakes and occasionally new characters and entertainment.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Perhaps demand for Magic Kingdom is such that it can remaining successful for the foreseeable future. They have three other theme parks, two water parks, a shopping district, and tens of thousands of hotel rooms they also have to keep busy, however.

They don't necessarily have to keep those things open. They can make just as much money with fewer people and reduced operating costs.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
What catch up? If their primary product is going to be food and merch, adding attraction capacity makes no sense from a logistical or financial standpoint. If you mean to say they need to add more capacity to their special merch offerings, maybe that's the case... maybe.
When you give away admissions thru discounting, its easier to drive attendance with seasonal offerings. They don't need new attractions to drive attendance, they need new popcorn buckets and new cupcakes and occasionally new characters and entertainment.
I'm not sure I'm following the logic here. Surely they need to keep adding attraction capacity and new attractions to attract visitors to buy the merchandise? People aren't going to come just to buy popcorn buckets and pretzels, but more and new rides act as a lure to attract people to buy the popcorn buckets and pretzels... and hotel rooms Lower attendance but each guest paying a higher admission price, meanwhile, has to be balanced against lost revenue from the sale of popcorn buckets, pretzels, hotel rooms, etc. Or am I missing something?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I guess because they can pull leavers to adjust availability, it would only take adjusting who reservations are available for. So if they have low resort bookings but show even 1 park at capacity, throw in more for resort guests.
That's what it sounds like is going on here. They can push guests to at least start their day at a certain location as a means of spreading out the crowds. That also makes it so they don't have to build more in the MK or DHS if they can force people to EPCOT and DAK. It also means that they don't have to build more in EPCOT and DAK to increase demand if they can force people there.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
There's one school of thought that says Universal is missing the mark by not doing a targeted series of ads that call out all of the Guest Satisfaction issues at Disney (Genie+, Park Reservations, Parking trams, etc). The counter argument here is that if Universal calls it out, Disney may actually take notice and make changes. If I'm Universal, I want guests to leave Disney dissatisfied.

Years ago, Disney was the rising tide that raised all boats, now that's less of a factor.
 

Poseidon Quest

Well-Known Member
The reason the prices are still going up on Genie+ is because the demand to use it is still too high.

I think long term goal for Genie+ would be to see utilization around 10% of park guests. It's meant to be a privilege/premium service. But it will probably take years to get to that point.

Oh no, they know exactly what they're doing. They know that their price point is low enough that a large number of people will buy into it, causing the lines to grind to a halt, therefore encouraging more people to consider buying it. Obviously, a lot of people purchasing it are finding it to be a poor value as there aren't enough desirable return times to go around and it lacks the flexibility to allow people to do what they want, when they want. Still, Disney does this on purpose because they care more about maximizing revenue than the guest experience. Raising the prices is just an attempt to marginally improve the experience for those who bought it, yet it's still testing the waters to see how much more than can get away with charging for a mostly useless, inflexible service.

It's standard across the industry to charge significantly more for reduced-line services, knowing that the high price point will obviously generate revenue, but deters a large number people from purchasing and therefore keeps stand-by lines moving more consistently. I'm sure that this was discussed at Disney and they're well aware of the benefits of a system like this. Instead, they've chosen to make the experience as frustrating as possible, encouraging more smaller purchases over fewer large ones because it probably does end up generating more money.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Well, you have to keep people coming for one (need new attractions for marketing draw eventually), and you need the crowds manageable (i.e. people waiting in line for attractions) so that people have to wait in line 30+ minutes to buy a pretzel, since that depresses sales.

But yes, they put themselves in quite the pickle with the significant loss of capacity in EPCOT and the lack of any new additional capacity resort-wide for roughly a decade. They're playing catch-up.
Mickey views did a show on Harmonious just the other day speculating the show change has nothing to do with negative guest feedback and everything to do with guests not staying to watch the show, causing a loss of food and beverage revenue.

Gotta get bodies through the gate, and keep them in the parks, before you can sell them your food and drinks. That’s what the attractions do.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
You can have reduce capacity and worse crowding. The relationship between visitation and crowding are not direct and linear.
I can understand this, for example, you can reduce the number of folks into the park my half and close half of the park and it be more crowded, but how are they reducing capacity and worsening the crowding right now?

Is it lack attractions and folks not able to ride attractions due to Genie+ snd ILL and just wondering around?
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Maybe? Counterpoint: the last 10-20 years.

How do you reconcile the idea that they haven't added enough attractions, but attendance keeps going up and up and up?
Maybe I am missing something. I thought the argument on that point was that they haven't added enough attractions to keep up with demand, so they're left with finding ways of managing demand which they may or may not be pushing too far with the reservations, Genie+, etc. that make a WDW vacation so miserable and expensive that they ultimately loose enough visitors to impact profits. Related to that argument is that lower attendance at a higher price has to be set against lower revenues from other streams such as merchandise, food and beverage, and accommodation as there will be less people there to buy them. In short, lower attendance at a higher admission fee doesn't necessarily automatically equal a more profitable WDW.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
I think long term goal for Genie+ would be to see utilization around 10% of park guests. It's meant to be a privilege/premium service. But it will probably take years to get to that point.
This does not gel with the gleeful tones Chapek uses in the earnings call when he says upwards of 50% of guests have bought either an ILL or Genie+. Burbank seems to expect high utilization, but as we know, the operations doesn't support it. He's on the same learning curve others have been. I can't imagine any scenario where the Street would view only 10% utilization as a good thing, after Chapek has been touting the high numbers for several quarters.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
If I'm Universal, I want guests to leave Disney dissatisfied.

Yeah but the flipside is, if Disney sees significant gains in revenue by increasing their prices, Universal will be under the same pressure to raise prices as well. Universal is in the same conundrum Disney was in: high attendance and low prices leading to increased operational expenses, or raising prices and angering the locals/repeat guests.

Universal would be wise not to bring attention to Disney's price increases if they are planning similar increases.


Obviously, a lot of people purchasing it are finding it to be a poor value as there aren't enough desirable return times to go around and it lacks the flexibility to allow people to do what they want, when they want.

So ... no one goes there because it's too crowded? If Genie+ isn't working, it's because too many people are trying to use it.

I'm sure that this was discussed at Disney and they're well aware of the benefits of a system like this. Instead, they've chosen to make the experience as frustrating as possible, encouraging more smaller purchases over fewer large ones because it probably does end up generating more money.

They could, and probably should charge more for Genie+, but they gave it away so long that they have to transition people into a new pricing model.


So many of these arguments toward maximizing revenue seem to be based on this idea that the customers are mindless sheep that will just go along with whatever Disney does. It's a cynical take that I don't think even Disney shares.



Mickey views did a show on Harmonious just the other day speculating the show change has nothing to do with negative guest feedback and everything to do with guests not staying to watch the show

But doesn't A sort of lead to B here? It really wasn't a good show.
 

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Maybe I am missing something. I thought the argument on that point was that they haven't added enough attractions to keep up with demand, so they're left with finding ways of managing demand which they may or may not be pushing too far with the reservations, Genie+, etc. that make a WDW vacation so miserable and expensive that they ultimately loose enough visitors to impact profits. Related to that argument is that lower attendance at a higher price has to be set against lower revenues from other streams such as merchandise, food and beverage, and accommodation as there will be less people there to buy them. In short, lower attendance at a higher admission fee doesn't necessarily automatically equal a more profitable WDW.
I think they are now keeping a close look at spending per guest and making this this the key metric.

For now at least, this is way up!

This combined with the total revenue are the key metrics going forward.

As for attractions, they simply want to spend the least possible on this.
 

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