News Disney CEO Bob Chapek reiterates his belief that park reservations are now an essential part of Disney's theme parks business

[Casper Gutman]

I know it's real, but anyone even mentioning ITM .... *shudder*. And it's also a misleading report, since it's been noted several times that the swamps were running at significantly reduced capacity for at least 1/3 of the year.

Yeahhhh... "reduced capacity." I mean, this is a thread where we're learning from very knowledgeable people how deceptive the implementation of and rhetoric surrounding the park reservation system is. I also got to experience park ops during that period of "intentional" "reduced capacity." I'd REALLY like to see some actual numbers and other information about that claim... but I'm not going to. So, given the way Disney and its defenders have absolutely shamelessly exploited the pandemic, I'll remain very skeptical.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeahhhh... "reduced capacity." I mean, this is a thread where we're learning from very knowledgeable people how deceptive the implementation of and rhetoric surrounding the park reservation system is. I also got to experience park ops during that period of "intentional" "reduced capacity." I'd REALLY like to see some actual numbers and other information about that claim... but I'm not going to. So, given the way Disney and its defenders have absolutely shamelessly exploited the pandemic, I'll remain very skeptical.

You can have reduce capacity and worse crowding. The relationship between visitation and crowding are not direct and linear.

 

[UNCgolf]

It wasn't always that Food and Merch were the breadwinners. This exact scenario that the parks have been working with for the last couple decades, andin this scenario, you devalue attractions for having more food festivals and merchandise events. Fill the park with cheap admissions and make it up in overpriced food and popcorn buckets.

It works and it works really really well. You can run the place as a mall with rides for a long time, but can you really run it that way forever?

And once you hit your peak of 20 million guests per year buying cupcakes and magicbands, then what? Where do you go from there?

I agree with this, but it's basically my point.

They make more money with F&B and merch than they can otherwise; that's part of the reason the parks are the way they are.

If they pull back from that, they're going to have to accept less revenue. There's just no way to make up the difference. I don't think there's any chance they do that because it would get significant pushback from investors.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree with this, but it's basically my point.

They make more money with F&B and merch than they can otherwise; that's part of the reason the parks are the way they are.

If they pull back from that, they're going to have to accept less revenue. There's just no way to make up the difference. I don't think there's any chance they do that because it would get significant pushback from investors.

They can pull back in terms of focus and still keep the revenue. Happy guests spend more.

 

[el_super]

If they pull back from that, they're going to have to accept less revenue. There's just no way to make up the difference. I don't think there's any chance they do that because it would get significant pushback from investors.

So you think attractions are inherently less of a value than food and merchandise? There is nothing that can be done to re-value attractions as the primary revenue stream?

 

[UNCgolf]

They can pull back in terms of focus and still keep the revenue. Happy guests spend more.

I meant in terms of significantly lowering attendance.

 

[GimpYancIent]

But why retain when there are endless millions of new consumers waiting to visit the parks for the first time who are presumably willing to pay double the price? That's what you and others have said ad nauseum - There are tons of people waiting in the wings to replace those who stop going. So why would they want to retain instead of just doubling prices across the board, dumping their existing customer base, and restocking with fresh meat? What could go wrong if the scenario so many have foisted as true, that there are millions just waiting to visit?

Since there is all this what iffing, what if those millions do not materialize? What if those new faces are frugal budgeters and are better bean counters than BC and Co.? What if the competitions product becomes more enticing / interesting and is more reasonably priced? What if the constant cheapening of the product turns off the much-targeted affluent segment who want an actual high-end product to spend time and money on?

 

[UNCgolf]

So you think attractions are inherently less of a value than food and merchandise? There is nothing that can be done to re-value attractions as the primary revenue stream?

Probably, yes.

If you're suggesting Disney switch back to a pay per attraction model across the board, I don't see how that would be feasible without losing a ton of customers to Universal/other places. Maybe if they dropped admission prices significantly but then you're back to square one.

I don't envision a way Disney could come close to making the same money without merch/F&B as the drivers.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

I am just waiting for the snarky ads that Universal is gonna run targeting the reservation system. It's not a matter of if they, but when they will do this. The low hanging fruit is ripe for the picking. If I'm Universal, I'm doing everything I can to open Epic Universe as soon as possible.

Along with seaworld and bgt

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

You can have reduce capacity and worse crowding. The relationship between visitation and crowding are not direct and linear.

We went to WDW in Nov 2021 and it was nothing like the crowds I’ve seen this year in pictures, or the ridiculous crowds we experienced at DL all year before deciding not to renew our passes.

We won’t know just how much they were limiting attendance until we see 2022 figures but from my experience I won’t be surprised if it was by a third or more.

 

[TQQQ]

But why retain when there are endless millions of new consumers waiting to visit the parks for the first time who are presumably willing to pay double the price? That's what you and others have said ad nauseum - There are tons of people waiting in the wings to replace those who stop going. So why would they want to retain instead of just doubling prices across the board, dumping their existing customer base, and restocking with fresh meat? What could go wrong if the scenario so many have foisted as true, that there are millions just waiting to visit?

Same reason they changed FP to FP+ and then FP+ to Genie+

They had poor customer satisfaction numbers.............If you look at those times, the parks attendance was still increasing and they ahd record profits then too......they didnt HAVE to make the changes, they did because the experience wasnt as good as it had been in the past

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Probably, yes.

If you're suggesting Disney switch back to a pay per attraction model, I don't see how that would be feasible without losing a ton of customers to Universal/other places.

Isn’t this essentially what they’re doing with Genie and ILL?

 

[UNCgolf]

Isn’t this essentially what they’re doing with Genie and ILL?

Only on a minor level, and you can still ride those attractions without paying extra.

It's a very nice additional revenue stream but it's not comparable to merch/F&B.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Only on a minor level, and you can still ride those attractions without paying extra.

It's a very nice additional revenue stream but it's not comparable to merch/F&B.

True, but they are monetizing them.

 

[UNCgolf]

True, but they are monetizing them.

Absolutely, but it's a massive leap to go from current Genie+/ILL to paying a mandatory $5 (or more) per ride on Winnie the Pooh.

 

[el_super]

I don't envision a way Disney could come close to making the same money without merch/F&B as the drivers.

If that's true they've already lost. There's no point in building new attractions if you make your money selling popcorn buckets.

 

[el_super]

Isn’t this essentially what they’re doing with Genie and ILL?

I actually don't think so. I think the point was to devalue line skipping by adding a tax/penalty to it. I think the goal was really to get people to WANT to wait in line again to improve the overall park congestion/crowding issues. The reason the prices are still going up on Genie+ is because the demand to use it is still too high.

I think long term goal for Genie+ would be to see utilization around 10% of park guests. It's meant to be a privilege/premium service. But it will probably take years to get to that point.

 

[UNCgolf]

If that's true they've already lost. There's no point in building new attractions if you make your money selling popcorn buckets.

Well, you have to keep people coming for one (need new attractions for marketing draw eventually), and you need the crowds manageable (i.e. people waiting in line for attractions) so that people have to wait in line 30+ minutes to buy a pretzel, since that depresses sales.

But yes, they put themselves in quite the pickle with the significant loss of capacity in EPCOT and the lack of any new additional capacity resort-wide for roughly a decade. They're playing catch-up.

 

[zombiebbq]

Protest cancellations (voting with our dollars) will never work.

This isn't a real moral fight and consumers are collectively too weak-willed to pull it off.

You can do it as you but as many here are all too eager to point out, someone will be happy to take your place - have a magical day!

People just go and say "Sure it's more expensive and not as nice as it used to be but I think it's still worth it." and they will continue to until they either individually decide it isn't worth it anymore or until they're individually priced out and can't afford to go.

That's just the way it works.

Until they actually alienate enough of their customer base to the point that those people no-longer want to visit under the pricing and conditions Disney wants to dictate, there will be no material impact for the company and no change to the way they operate.

Sucks but it's the reality.

I agree with this as well. But imo, 10-15 years or so Disney is going to have a big problem. The wave of discontent is slow moving but it's building. I look at my own social circle of friends, family, colleagues and almost no one is interested in a Disney vacation for their young children. They aren't building that relationship with future guests to sustain the money making machine. I keep thinking about when Gen Z have their kids...I just think Disney is in trouble long term.

 

[UNCgolf]

And see that's interesting, my neighbors just brought a dvc membership, they went last year and fell in love. Now I always say they are young and of course don't have the history but they two are professionals, she's a PhD chemist. he's a orthopedic resident . 3 little girls .
They did buy resale but they are going it seems twice a year.

It's a wait and see game whether or not Disney loses.

Lol a good friend of mine just came back and loved it but I don't count them because 2 of those days they did a private skip the line access tourvwith their own guide. Obviously not the average jane

Oh definitely, some people are still going to go and love it. My friends were just deterred from even trying, which probably isn't what Disney wants.