News Disney CEO Bob Chapek reiterates his belief that park reservations are now an essential part of Disney's theme parks business

[Sir_Cliff]

But doesn't A sort of lead to B here? It really wasn't a good show.

Not necessarily. You could do surveys and find when people are asked their opinion they give Harmonious comparable ratings to RoE, for example. When you look at how many people bother to stay for the show and related trends such as restaurant bookings, however, you might see a big drop off in enthusiasm.

From reading other threads, my impression at least was that Enchantment had more issues with guest satisfaction ratings than Harmonious.

 

[mousefan1972]

Remember when you could buy a park hopper ticket and decide what park you wanted to visit that morning, and then go somewhere else a couple hours later if you wanted to?

That was just 3 years ago.

When my kids were little (back in the days of paper fastpass), we would play the "let's get on the first bus that comes" game. And we were known to go to a park for rope drop to ride one ride, then hop elsewhere. Sadly both of those days are over.....

 

[el_super]

Maybe I am missing something. I thought the argument on that point was that they haven't added enough attractions to keep up with demand

Yeah but why is demand still climbing if they are not adding attractions?

If they can maintain demand/attendance with the absolute minimal investment in attractions, why wouldn't they just keep doing that?

If attractions are just a secondary revenue stream, there is less need to spend so much money on them.

In short, lower attendance at a higher admission fee doesn't necessarily automatically equal a more profitable WDW.

Not necessarily, but Disney is saying that it's working. So far.

 

[Disney Analyst]

There's one school of thought that says Universal is missing the mark by not doing a targeted series of ads that call out all of the Guest Satisfaction issues at Disney (Genie+, Park Reservations, Parking trams, etc). The counter argument here is that if Universal calls it out, Disney may actually take notice and make changes. If I'm Universal, I want guests to leave Disney dissatisfied.

Years ago, Disney was the rising tide that raised all boats, now that's less of a factor.

So are you saying companies should put out attacks ads against other competing companies?

That seems like a slippery slope?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Yeah but why is demand still climbing if they are not adding attractions?

If they can maintain demand/attendance with the absolute minimal investment in attractions, why wouldn't they just keep doing that?

What you're suggesting is somewhat in line with what they're proposing and what they have done for most of the 21st century in attempting to focus on managing demand rather than building capacity.

The issue they ran into initially was that they ultimately didn't have the capacity to deal with demand as schemes such as FastPass+ didn't end up being as effective in distributing crowds as they projected. What they are proposing now with price rises, reservations, Genie+, etc. should technically be more effective at managing crowd numbers (although so far there seems little evidence the parks seem less crowded). The issue is whether by going down this route they are creating something eminently appealing to people in management who have little to no experience of or interest in visiting the parks, but that ultimately proves too successful in driving attendance down by making the visitor experience too unpleasant. The jury is still out.

If attractions are just a secondary revenue stream, there is less need to spend so much money on them.

Without the attractions they have no revenue. People only come and spend any money on anything because they want to experience the attractions. It's like saying why not just close the parks if the hotels are making more money.

Not necessarily, but Disney is saying that it's working. So far.

I will say that, so far, they do seem to have the numbers on their side.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

If I'm Universal, I want guests to leave Disney dissatisfied.

Years ago, Disney was the rising tide that raised all boats, now that's less of a factor.

It may be less of a factor but I think it’s still a major factor for Universal, I’d wager a significant portion of their business is still Disney add-on trips. With epic that may change though, with the water park and third park on the way they may soon be a destination by themselves that no longer needs Disney.

I think Universal wants people to like Disney just enough they still come to Florida for Disney but just disgruntled enough they happily sacrifice what would have formerly been additional days at Disney at Universal.

 

[UNCgolf]

What catch up? If their primary product is going to be food and merch, adding attraction capacity makes no sense from a logistical or financial standpoint. If you mean to say they need to add more capacity to their special merch offerings, maybe that's the case... maybe.
When you give away admissions thru discounting, its easier to drive attendance with seasonal offerings. They don't need new attractions to drive attendance, they need new popcorn buckets and new cupcakes and occasionally new characters and entertainment.

Yes it does, as I explained in the very post you're quoting.

They can't attract people indefinitely without new attractions, and they also have to have attractions in order to sell people F&B and merchandise. If the parks are too crowded because people aren't utilizing attractions, they're losing out on merch and F&B sales because the lines are too long to buy snacks/people can't even get into shops.

People aren't attending for the merch and F&B -- they come to the park for the attractions. But merch and F&B is where the profit margins skyrocket. It's similar to sporting events and movie theaters in that regard, where one aspect of the operation attracts ticket purchasers and attendance, and another aspect helps drive profits.

 

[Joel]

So are you saying companies should put out attacks ads against other competing companies?

That seems like a slippery slope?

Companies call out their rivals all the time. A lot of times they avoid directly mentioning the competition, but it's always obvious who they're referring to.

 

[UNCgolf]

How do you reconcile the idea that they haven't added enough attractions, but attendance keeps going up and up and up?

The population of the United States (and the world) is much larger, and growing. The US population was about 225 million in the 1980 census; it was 331 million in the 2020 census.

That's certainly not the sole reason for attendance increase, but it's a significant factor. There's simply a larger customer base from which to pull attendees. You'd expect attendance to increase by 40% or so from 1980 to today just from simple population growth, although they've also built three new parks (and some water parks) in that time period.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Yeah but why is demand still climbing if they are not adding attractions?

Prior to Covid they were adding pretty consistently, maybe not as fast as guests would like but something new every year or so to pull in the crowds.

New DCA, new fantasyland, Pandora, 2 Galaxy’s edge, parades, spectaculars, etc. They don’t build a ton but it was just enough to justify a trip every year or two.

Even post Covid has given us Rat and Guardians at Epcot, Marvel land at DCA, and soon Tron, not to mention the staggered return of parades and old things they’ve been using as a draw… the big question is what, if anything, is planned to keep the crowds coming beyond 2023.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

It may be less of a factor but I think it’s still a major factor for Universal, I’d wager a significant portion of their business is still Disney add-on trips. With epic that may change though, with the water park and third park on the way they may soon be a destination by themselves that no longer needs Disney.

I think Universal wants people to like Disney just enough they still come to Florida for Disney but just disgruntled enough they happily sacrifice what would have formerly been additional days at Disney at Universal.

Yes, I'm sure Universal wants a healthy tourist ecosystem based around theme parks to survive in Orlando more than it would want WDW to go out of business. I do think a good bet for them is to try and position themselves as slightly less expensive and (especially) a lot less of a hassle than a visit to Disney. In other words, endure a day at the Magic Kingdom and enjoy the rest of your vacation hopping at will between our three world-class theme parks, water parks, shopping and dining, and resort hotels.

Personally, I think they should move away from the slightly obnoxious swipes at Disney and focus on selling their strengths.

 

[el_super]

Without the attractions they have no revenue.

Yeah but that's really just advocating for keeping the attractions they have. Not adding new ones. We've seen what they have done over the last 20 years, reskinning underused attractions and cloning attractions and it seems to be just as effective at driving attendance.

When people are paying so little to come into the parks, that seems to be enough.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Yeah but that's really just advocating for keeping the attractions they have. Not adding new ones. We've seen what they have done over the last 20 years, reskinning underused attractions and cloning attractions and it seems to be just as effective at driving attendance.

When people are paying so little to come into the parks, that seems to be enough.

Right...

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The population of the United States (and the world) is much larger, and growing. The US population was about 225 million in the 1980 census; it was 331 million in the 2020 census.

That's not the sole reason for attendance increase, but it's a significant factor. There's simply a larger customer base from which to pull attendees. You'd expect attendance to increase by 40% or so from 1980 to today just from simple population growth, although they've also built three new parks (and some water parks) in that time period.

Pay rates have also gone up significantly for many, the labor shortage has pushed many lower paying jobs up $3-5 an hour (or more), no ones getting rich of it but it opens up a day at Disney to a whole group of people who could never have afforded it before.

Add in all the money people saved via eviction moratorium and stimulus and there’s millions of people who can suddenly treat themselves to a day at Disney. That will be a short lived factor but it’s a factor in the big post Covid surge.

 

[el_super]

They can't attract people indefinitely without new attractions

I think that's true. But I also think that's why we are seeing this shift toward re-valuing their product NOW. The status-quo of cheap admissions was not sustainable and needs to be corrected.

 

[Disstevefan1]

When my kids were little (back in the days of paper fastpass), we would play the "let's get on the first bus that comes" game. And we were known to go to a park for rope drop to ride one ride, then hop elsewhere. Sadly both of those days are over.....

Well getting to the park for rope drop is still good advice.

 

[Lilofan]

Pay rates have also gone up significantly for many, the labor shortage has pushed many lower paying jobs up $3-5 an hour (or more), no ones getting rich of it but it opens up a day at Disney to a whole group of people who could never have afforded it before.

Add in all the money people saved via eviction moratorium and stimulus and there’s millions of people who can suddenly treat themselves to a day at Disney. That will be a short lived factor but it’s a factor in the big post Covid surge.

Friends and family working from home earning nice salaries, performance bonuses , all saving monthly from commuting costs, discretionary spending , lunches, wear tear on car, dry cleaning etc. It all adds up to savings and spent on vacations now that people are starting to travel .

 

[Disstevefan1]

TWDC and it’s theme parks are……. Invincible

 

[bcoachable]

As I’m reading this thread, I had the notion to look up disneys NPS scores over the last year. Nov. Of 2021, they had a score of 49. This month, it is down to 42. That’s still a pretty good number, but I wonder if that drop has grabbed the attention of leadership yet. If not, I wonder at what number do they start to care that their brand is slipping in the big stage…

 

[Sir_Cliff]

This popped up on my Instagram. Nice of them to look after us!