Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

[xstech25]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks Mymagic+ is a big conspiracy.

They were obviously very concerned with the fact that such a large amount of people found going to WDW extremely complicated and overwhelming, especially with kids, and MM+ is a consumer friendly way to streamline everything. I think it's very obviously a direct result to consumer demand, you'd have to be blind to not see that.

So what if they plan to increase per cap spending with it, BIG FREAKIN DEAL. It's a business, a business has to make their customers happy. And probably 99% or so of that business is the general public who is going to find it neat and not have a problem with it, not the 1% of their Guests who are posting on WDWmagic complaining about everything they do.

And someone called Iger one of the "three stooges." Remember that huge extremely successful mega company Michael Eisner built? Under Iger's leadership that company has literally DOUBLED their value in under 10 years....how can you call him a stooge? The only stooges here are you and I for sitting here behind a computer screen complaining, while people like Bob Iger are out there actually working and maximizing shareholder value (and making megabucks while at it).

 

[HMF]

Again- Universal went through a dry spell this past decade (00-09) and Disney was adding (MINOR THINGS WITH LITTLE SUBSTANCE OR FLAT-OUT CRAP) left and right.

Fixed!

 

[ford91exploder]

Do tell. I'd like to hear more about this. What's p&r

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/09/16/disney-may-be-making-a-big-mistake.aspx

With the TWDC executive management stating CAPEX and hiring will be reduced, Most companies do similar things prior to divestiture of an asset in this case P&R or Parks and Resorts.

Now I have NO KNOWLEDGE of anything like this this is merely my own speculation based on the seemingly illogical move coming out of TWDC in light of the competition from SeaWorld/UNI

 

[AEfx]

Y'all need to stop praising Universal because they're adding hotels and opening new attractions. This isn't monopoly. Universal is playing catch-up. They skipped school last week and have to do the make-up, they're not in AP classes. There's too much credit given to them.
Remember this past decade when Universal didn't do much pre-Potter and Disney opened quite a few things? Not to mention Disney already has 4 parks, a bigger downtown complex, and considerably more hotels.

"Quite a few things"? Did WDW open some secret attractions I don't know about?

Absolutely nothing as mainstream noteworthy has been built at WDW to near any level as Universal in quite some time. The closest they came, Everest - well, Disco Yeti is all that needs to be said there.

Playing catch up - funny choice of words, since many folk insisted Universal was never a threat and never would be. You will find most of those people don't say that so much any more.

When this is said and done, Universal will still only have half the hotel rooms of WDW, very true - but a few years ago, that would have been unheard of, crazy talk from even the most ardent supporters of Universal (which, most of us aren't - but we recognize the truth of the situation which is that Universal is killing Disney in the business of making new and innovative, exciting attractions).

I mean, you even listed the "bigger downtown complex" - LOL, much of which was shuttered for the larger part of the last decade, and consistently is in flux as they try to figure out just what to do with it? Don't see many shuttered doors at City Walk...

They're on a different playing field in their business. Adding hotels and attractions isn't their focus right now, why is everyone acting like Disney is done? They just spent a billion dollars on this MyMagic+ system. Love it or hate it, Disney isn't spending a dime til they figure it out. A billion dollars is roughly what Universal is spending on new attractions, it's no wonder Disney isn't.

Well you just hit the nail on the head. Disney is spending a billion on a bunch of fancy bracelets to get the rocks of super-planners excited, that won't even be available to the average guest, solely for those who don't realize the utter absurdity of planning a fast pass for an attraction six months before the vacation. Universal is building huge amazing new attractions that make headlines across the world, and Disney is doing something that they can't even make a television commercial about, and would need an hour-long infomercial to even explain it, if they tried.

Again- Universal went through a dry spell this past decade (00-09) and Disney was adding left and right. The roles are simply reversed right now, and what's good for central Florida benefits everyone, including the mouse.

Disney will add attractions again, once Universal spends their billion. Then they'll just have to "plus it".

It was good for the Mouse when Universal was a one-day deal that kept people in the area longer. It's not good for the Mouse that Universal is attracting brand new customers to Florida who are coming to them as the main attraction and not the sideshow, while Disney is content to sit and tinker with their existing die-hards trying to trick them into spending a few more cents by giving them a payment device that supposedly disassociates them from money. Disney was adding mostly crap served over watered down crap, but - the point is not the past. It's the future. It's right now. And right now, Disney is getting trounced in the most important aspect - attractions - and it's been that way for awhile (Spiderman was regarded as the highest rated theme park ride in the world since it opened, and didn't get outdone until Universal bested itself with Harry Potter).

You are right, Disney and Universal are playing in different leagues - Disney has sat squarely on their laurels, and Universal is kicking their butts now, and for the foreseeable future.

I want to be wrong. We all do. But no amount of wishful thinking or justification for sitting around five years waiting for a little hill to be built in the same time Universal has added a roster of attractions that makes world headlines and continues to do so will change the fact that while it's not pretty, it's reality that Disney is almost conceding that they are no longer in the business of new, innovative attractions and simply wish to keep milking what they already have and trying to squeeze a few drops more.

 

[WDW1974]

I did always find out it astounding that the (supposedly) best Disney parks are the two that aren't even run by Disney.

It's so true ... Even lifestylers who go like @WDWFigment will tell you as much.

 

[HMF]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/09/16/disney-may-be-making-a-big-mistake.aspx

With the TWDC executive management stating CAPEX and hiring will be reduced, Most companies do similar things prior to divestiture of an asset in this case P&R or Parks and Resorts.

Now I have NO KNOWLEDGE of anything like this this is merely my own speculation based on the seemingly illogical move coming out of TWDC in light of the competition from SeaWorld/UNI

So this is Iger's attitude towards P&R when the going get's tough, Give up and sell it to a third party. While I hate saying this and I feel it is sad that Walt's Company has sunk this low but at this point I actually think a third party could run it better assuming it will be a third party that cares. I have given up on expecting any miracles from this Management team. It really hurts to care about something when the people in power don't. Bob, Sell away!!!!!

 

[Captain Neo]

So this is Iger's attitude towards P&R when the going get's tough, Give up and sell it to a third party. While I hate saying this and I feel it is sad that Walt's Company has sunk this low but at this point I actually think a third party could run it better assuming it will be a third party that cares. I have given up on expecting any miracles from this Management team. It really hurts to care about something when the people in power don't. Bob, Sell away!!!!!

If they would have sold to Comcast in 2004 we would be getting $500 million investments in new rides per year minimum!

 

[Disneyhead'71]

View attachment 32545

I agree wholeheartedly that Uni is no where near the quality of Disneyworld .

Just look at this 'rehab' vs. how Disney has photorealistic draping whenever they freshen up a facade.

Oh, snap! Nevermind:

 

[jensenrick]

ok so let's be open minded and realistic for a minute...

Wow.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I have to agree with the poster here who mentioned Universal's simulator addiction. That does get really old, and I'm glad that WDW's attractions still revolve around organic effects and AAs for the most part (except for that sad "plussing" that was inflicted on Haunted Mansion's Hitchhiking Ghosts... )

 

[tirian]

I have to agree with the poster here who mentioned Universal's simulator addiction. That does get really old, and I'm glad that WDW's attractions still revolve around organic effects and AAs for the most part (except for that sad "plussing" that was inflicted on Haunted Mansion's Hitchhiking Ghosts... )

I enjoy Uni on its own merits but still prefer Disney's atmosphere for two subtle reasons (apart from the intellectual properties):

(1) Disney's architecture is scaled better than Uni's. I find everything at Uni to be overwhelming and too spread out except for Potter, which is a successful land specifically because it replicates classic Disney principles. Disney hugs; Uni builds soundstages (except for Potter). Even the new Simpsons Springfield is too boxy and oversized for a cartoon atmosphere.

(2) Uni attractions follow one formula. Watch out! Oh no! Watch out! Aaaack! Every. Single. Time.

 

[jensenrick]

Well, think about all the other theme and/or amusement parks that can buy into the system after Disney has spent all that money to develop it.

So, the supposition is that after Disney has spent all this time and money creating an advantage over their competition- they will turn around and sell the system to their competition, thus removing the advantage.

For the sake of argument, let's say they do, and now we have "My Sea World Experience" and "My Knott's Berry Farm Experience." So then people going to Sea World, for instance, will schedule the time they see Shamu 180 days ahead- a show that anyone can just walk into at anytime just about any day of the year. Do they even have more than 1 restaurant that takes reservations? Sure, maybe a Goliath like WDW will be able to make this system work for them- I just can't see a park like Sea World, or whoever, wanting to spend the money to totally overhaul their infrastructure for what, to them, will be little benefit.

Disney has more then one iron in the fire.

Okay, if you say so. How is that relevant to the idea that non-Disney parks will want an all-encompassing wristband system?

No one that can count can possibly see how Disney will make money off this just as a Disney parks thing.

Well, I agree with you there.

 

[jensenrick]

Well no wonder why you don't understand who else will follow. Everyone.


...everyone. Give it 5 years, Universal, Busch/SeaWorld and the like will all be cooking up their responses to what Disney has done.

That may be, depending on how successful Disney makes it seem, but I sincerely hope not. It is nice that a park like Sea World is a place someone can still go to spontaneously and have a good time, without an arm full of wristbands, one for everywhere you go.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

If I must have a standard, make mine a double.

Claim: Uni has way too many 3D movie attractions.

So let's count. Uni. has Shrek and T2:3D. That's 2. Disney has Phil, TTBAG, Captian EO, and Muppets. Wait that's 4. 2 more than Universal.

Claim: Uni has way too many simulators.

So lets count. Uni has Simpsons and Despicable Me. That's 2. Disney has Star Tours and The Sum of All Thrills. That's 2, 3 if you count the now defunct Body Wars.

Claim: All of Uni's attractions are "and then something goes horribly wrong."

While yes, Uni does use that particular plot point a lot, Disney uses it in Star Tours, Mission Space, Phil, Captain EO, Everest, Dinosaur, Kali, Kilimanjaro, Nemo, Maelstrom, Pooh, Stitch, Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise, Splash, ToT, Muppets, Backlot Tour, and the old Body Wars.

 

[Bairstow]

Some people would consider Transformers, Spiderman, and possibly Forbidden Journey to also be simulator rides.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Some people would consider Transformers, Spiderman, and possibly Forbidden Journey to also be simulator rides.

And yet those same people would never ever consider calling Soarin' a simulator. Transformers, Spider-man, and Forbidden Journey are dark rides not simulators.

 

[HMF]

(2) Uni attractions follow one formula. Watch out! Oh no! Watch out! Aaaack! Every. Single. Time.

If you don't count the standard classics most Disney Rides are
Someone or something goes missing or horribly wrong, Guests go on ride to find item/character or fix problem, Resolution character or item is found or disaster is averted , Dump Guests into Gift Shop.

 

[doctornick]

If they would have sold to Comcast in 2004 we would be getting $500 million investments in new rides per year minimum!

If Comcast owned the most popular theme parks in the world, they wouldn't see a need to invest tons of money in the them to "catch up" to the competition or "make a big splash" to bring in guests who previously ignored them. I think what Comcast is doing is great, but let's not be naive and pretend they are doing it due to some noble dedication to theme parks, as opposed to doing it as an investment to grow their property. The need to grown WDW (were they to own it) is much less.

Would a Comcast owned Disney park be investing more in attractions than we are currently seeing at WDW? Possible. But IMHO there is no way that Comcast would be investing in a mature/dominating property like WDW the way they are in Uni.

 

[Goofyernmost]

So, the supposition is that after Disney has spent all this time and money creating an advantage over their competition- they will turn around and sell the system to their competition, thus removing the advantage.

For the sake of argument, let's say they do, and now we have "My Sea World Experience" and "My Knott's Berry Farm Experience." So then people going to Sea World, for instance, will schedule the time they see Shamu 180 days ahead- a show that anyone can just walk into at anytime just about any day of the year. Do they even have more than 1 restaurant that takes reservations? Sure, maybe a Goliath like WDW will be able to make this system work for them- I just can't see a park like Sea World, or whoever, wanting to spend the money to totally overhaul their infrastructure for what, to them, will be little benefit.

Okay, if you say so. How is that relevant to the idea that non-Disney parks will want an all-encompassing wristband system?

Well, I agree with you there.

Yup! That exactly what I'm saying. Advantage? What advantage would that be if you can tell me. It's a glorified accounting and marketing and park management tool. There is nothing there for the consumer. Nothing at all. It's a business tool. Let me repeat...It's a business tool. You need to stop drinking the marketing kool-aid that says that this is an exciting thing for the guests. It is nothing for the guest other then maybe crowd control. If you get convinced that this is to your benefit then you will be more patient as they work the bugs out of it. When all is said and done this is just a business benefiting program.

Think out of the box for just a second. They are going to sell the basic system. How each park alters it to meet their needs is up to them. It may not even be recognizable from park to park, but the base will be there. Of all the Theme Park companies, Disney is the only one that could afford to do this or have the background to do it. The other parks will pay a hefty sum for the system, but only a fraction of what Disney has paid. Disney gets their money back, gets a free system basically and the other parks have a system that can be tailored for their needs, not the needs of Disney.

The wristbands are a minor part of the system. The cards work as well. If other parks see that it will streamline their operation and, if for no other reason, remain current in technology..Oh, yea...build it and the will come.

 

[raymusiccity]

Oh, snap! Nevermind:

Doh! My bad. But, you have to admit, Uni has compromised most of their streetscapes with visual intrusions.
(Like that very convincing coaster ruining a pretty good looking set).