Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

[AEfx]

Hate joining a thread 18 pages in, and worse --to agree with my pal @flynnibus -- but his experiences here mirror mine. A major part of visiting WDW was seeing what would come next by visiting a preview center or taking a monorail out to preview EPCOT Center.

That has been missing since the 1990s and the biggest reason is because Disney has largely stopped building major things, things of substance in WDW.

Now, when I see a construction fence I think about the meaningless Waltisms that are plastered on them and what they really mean and laugh a sad laugh.

That's just the way I feel - I loved that stuff as a kid, but...there hasn't been a dang thing significant enough to warrant any type of preview center set-up.

And over at Universal, they don't need 'em - since they start from scratch and build big impressive E-ticket equivalent attractions so quickly that before WDW could even get the model approved for public viewing, people are already lining up for opening day at a Universal ride.

It's kind of funny thinking back at the folk who used to say "oh, construction takes time, you don't understand, I'm a contractor, I know" and it's like - well, Universal seems to have figured it out. It might have to do with crew, like, actually working on it regularly until it's completed. Kinda scary, I know.

Wish my town would find out who Universal uses - it just took them 10 months to replace a very small bridge that had to be re-routed around with a temporary one, so there was zero traffic for ten months impeding them. I go around that bridge at least 3x a day, all different times - and in 10 months I saw people working maybe a half-dozen times, the rest of the time, EVERY SINGLE other time, just a small group of guys standing/leaning around drinking coffee and entertaining each other. Morning, noon, afternoon.

As Universal has shown, it's whom you hire, not that construction is suddenly much slower than it ever has been in this history of man, in spite of the fact that in this day and age with all the advances in construction and prefab, it should take far less longer than it used to.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Just a general thought here... It seems like the majority of the threads have become incredibly derailed and at face value, the simple lack of any news outside of a Starbucks opening or prices rising could be an answer as to why, but the more you look into the threads, it just seems like there have been new posters who have surfaced over the past few months that simply derail the topics and act as a counterweight to anything negative about the state of affairs at TDO. If someone was a cynic, they might even think that some of these posters are getting marching orders from TDO....

Not saying you're cynical, because you didn't say you were, but, are you saying that anyone that is positive in any way about Disney is a compensated puppet? That there is nothing positive that can be taken from anything that is happening? That no clear thinking person could possibly find anything good about anything that Disney is currently doing or has in the past, or might in the future? Is that the point of this? It seems kind of weird to think that one side of the argument is right and that the other is 100% wrong, no matter what side you are on at the time. Doesn't it? Or maybe it could be, follow me here, that those people speak out because they disagree with the total negativity and are, like you, expressing their opinion without the apparently endless kickbacks from Disney. Heck, as far as that goes...couldn't an argument be made that those of us that are always willing to be nasty about the state of TDO, might just be on the Universal payroll? Could be, couldn't it? Maybe they have planted all the Debbie Downers to invade this site and twists everyone mind into Disney hating Uni lovers. Could happen either way couldn't it? Who knows maybe the only real unpaid participants are the ones that see negatives and positives and are willing to discuss them and express their reasons why. Na..that would be to reasonable. Conspiracy is so much more fun to talk about.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The pay model works better. That's why everyone else in the industry has adopted it.

Would I be happier? Probably not. Like most people around here, I know how to use and abuse the FP system to my advantage. That's why FP is so popular round these parts. But just because we select few are able to maximize our own benefit, that does not make it a good system.

I would be much happier. At least then when you couldn't get one it would be because you couldn't afford it and not just because they have run out. I've never purchased a Pass at Uni, never really needed it, but, it was nice to know that it was there available to me whenever I wanted one and I didn't have to get up before sunrise to get it either.

 

[GoofGoof]

Not saying you're cynical, because you didn't say you were, but, are you saying that anyone that is positive in any way about Disney is a compensated puppet? That there is nothing positive that can be taken from anything that is happening? That no clear thinking person could possibly find anything good about anything that Disney is currently doing or has in the past, or might in the future? Is that the point of this? It seems kind of weird to think that one side of the argument is right and that the other is 100% wrong, no matter what side you are on at the time. Doesn't it? Or maybe it could be, follow me here, that those people speak out because they disagree with the total negativity and are, like you, expressing their opinion without the apparently endless kickbacks from Disney. Heck, as far as that goes...couldn't an argument be made that those of us that are always willing to be nasty about the state of TDO, might just be on the Universal payroll? Could be, couldn't it? Maybe they have planted all the Debbie Downers to invade this site and twists everyone mind into Disney hating Uni lovers. Could happen either way couldn't it? Who knows maybe the only real unpaid participants are the ones that see negatives and positives and are willing to discuss them and express their reasons why. Na..that would be to reasonable. Conspiracy is so much more fun to talk about.

Just for the record if anyone is out there reading this from Disney or Uni my opinion can easily be bought. I would enjoy being paid for my time spent here

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

Are the refurbs overdue? Yes, absolutely. For me that takes nothing away from the fact that they are being done. Do we discount Potterland because Universal desperately needed a major attendance boost at IOA? Nope. Do we discount the quality of the refresh that happened at DL because it was way overdue? Nope. If they commit the time and money to much needed refurbs it's a good thing and a step in the right direction.

Agreed but putting things back like they were supposed to be is not an upgrade and the fact the you DUSTERS think it is, is proof how low WDW has sunk!

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

You can't ignore what is likely to happen in the future when evaluating the direction both resorts are going in. It has to be part of the equation.

There has been rebuttal. You just discount or ignore it. Several posters have pointed out that the recent trend towards refurbs is a step in the right direction for WDW. FLE, Avatar and Disney Springs are all announced or in process. Possible Star Wars Land has people excited. At least a few people said they really think NextGen is a positive addition. For some people that are less optimistic about these changes WDW is flat but not down. With all of that going on its not unanimous that WDW is going down.

I haven't seen many people argue that Universal isn't moving upward. The numbers back this too. There were a few who said they were unimpressed with some of the new additions to Universal so for them I guess it could be neutral or even declining.

See my last post

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

You can't ignore what is likely to happen in the future when evaluating the direction both resorts are going in. It has to be part of the equation.

There has been rebuttal. You just discount or ignore it. Several posters have pointed out that the recent trend towards refurbs is a step in the right direction for WDW. FLE, Avatar and Disney Springs are all announced or in process. Possible Star Wars Land has people excited. At least a few people said they really think NextGen is a positive addition. For some people that are less optimistic about these changes WDW is flat but not down. With all of that going on its not unanimous that WDW is going down.

I haven't seen many people argue that Universal isn't moving upward. The numbers back this too. There were a few who said they were unimpressed with some of the new additions to Universal so for them I guess it could be neutral or even declining.

That last paragraph almost made me pee my pants... You used to work adventurer club?

 

[GoofGoof]

Agreed but putting things back like they were supposed to be is not an upgrade and the fact the you DUSTERS think it is, is proof how low WDW has sunk!

It is not an upgrade. It is not a new addition. It is what should be done and was done for many years in the past. Flash forward to this century. WDW saw a major downturn in maintenance and refurbs. This was also combined with a shortage of frequent quality additions. I think up to this point we are in total agreement. Where we differ slightly is the current direction of WDW. It's my contention that things may be starting to stabilize and we have actually seen some improvements this year at least at MK. I have a hard time classifying WDW as still moving downward right now. For me its more like neutral with a glimpse of a positive trend.

 

[GoofGoof]

That last paragraph almost made me pee my pants... You used to work adventurer club?

You got me...I'm always recognized by my true fans.

IMHO Universal is doing a great job and firing on all cylinders. Nothing but praise. I was only pointing out that that's just an opinion and I have heard people say they were not impressed with Transformers, Simpsons and even PotterLand so for them its not on an upward trend.

 

[CarlFredricksen]

You got me...I'm always recognized by my true fans.

IMHO Universal is doing a great job and firing on all cylinders. Nothing but praise. I was only pointing out that that's just an opinion and I have heard people say they were not impressed with Transformers, Simpsons and even PotterLand so for them its not on an upward trend.

Just got back to my room on WDW property having spent 1 day of our 8 day trip at Universal - we did a 1 day park-to-park at Uni.

This was not our first time to Potterworld and the rest of Universal, and I was looking forward to today and going back. However I must say after today, while it wasn't a terrible experience,I'm happy to be back at WDW tonight. While there's no arguing Uni is moving at a faster building pace and being more aggressive, however IMHO bigger/faster/quicker doesn't translate to better and that showed.

I think they should rename Universal Studios to UniverSIMULATOR Studios. Is their business model now 'Lets take this franchise and turn it into a simulator?' Look at their last few builds....Despicable Me, Transformers, Potter, Spider-Man HD upgrade, Simpsons, etc....all based around simulators. To me, after spending a full day, this got real old, real quick. And now there is talk of ripping out E.T.? Major no-no in my book if they do so. Quality is down, and it seems they are in the race to win quantity of new rides.....not quality.

Also, over the past few years I've read on here how people think Uni is catching up to Disney on the 'show/cast member front' and guest interaction. Not true. I saw Betty Boop and her security guard looking at a smart phone texting when their line was slow. When in line for the Simpsons ride, the cast member wouldn't stop (loudly) rapping, over and over again, the words to a Drake song. Multiple times asked cast members simple questions - where are restrooms, what are park hours, when is parade, where is xx? And we got the deer in head lights look. Not expecting everyone to know everything, however never experience at WDW.

Final thought....while Uni sure is building and growing the number of new attractions faster than WDW, I think the quality of these attractions will not last the long haul. And one of the main reasons I feel this is because everything new is a simulator, and at the end of the day, Unis theming is no where near WDW, and their cast members aren't held to the same high standard as Disney.

Rant over. Felt something needed to be said though after having just spent $130 for 1 day.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

It is not an upgrade. It is not a new addition. It is what should be done and was done for many years in the past. Flash forward to this century. WDW saw a major downturn in maintenance and refurbs. This was also combined with a shortage of frequent quality additions. I think up to this point we are in total agreement. Where we differ slightly is the current direction of WDW. It's my contention that things may be starting to stabilize and we have actually seen some improvements this year at least at MK. I have a hard time classifying WDW as still moving downward right now. For me its more like neutral with a glimpse of a positive trend.

Well I'm glad there's at least two of us disney fans that aren't complete koolaid aid drinkers and I'm hopeful that you're right about it stabilizing. Maybe I'll have the same thought when I return in 2014

 

[Lexxweb]

I understand EXACTLY what Disney is doing here, Trying to tell Wall St that the business is growing by their constant price increases while the Deluxe Resorts have 50% of rooms out of service so they can cook the 'occupancy' numbers. Yes the resort was 85% full - but only if you don't count the rooms out of service.

MB is intended to increase impulse spending by the guests they DO have on property, In order to pay for this based on Disney's reported numbers MB will need to increase gross revenue by 15%, I'm an engineer I look at the world how it IS not how I want it to be.

Meanwhile down the road UNI has enough organic business growth to think about ADDING 15,000 rooms, If they do this and add hotels of the Portofino Bay quality with convention halls attached they can swing the convention business entirely away from WDW, Iced tea at $75 dollars per gallon, Give me a break in Vegas it's 10-15 bucks a gallon.

Financial engineering always blows up in the end, Just like packaging subprime and NINJA mortgages into a big block have a rating agency lie and call these AAA+ rated, The underlying value is not there and the true value will be discovered and the whole edifice comes crashing down.

Y'all need to stop praising Universal because they're adding hotels and opening new attractions. This isn't monopoly. Universal is playing catch-up. They skipped school last week and have to do the make-up, they're not in AP classes. There's too much credit given to them.
Remember this past decade when Universal didn't do much pre-Potter and Disney opened quite a few things? Not to mention Disney already has 4 parks, a bigger downtown complex, and considerably more hotels.
Universal might be adding more rooms, but Disney already has those rooms. What's their response supposed to be? EVEN MORE rooms? They added Bay Lake Towers and added another DVC timeshare to the G-Flo in the past couple years. They're on a different playing field in their business. Adding hotels and attractions isn't their focus right now, why is everyone acting like Disney is done? They just spent a billion dollars on this MyMagic+ system. Love it or hate it, Disney isn't spending a dime til they figure it out. A billion dollars is roughly what Universal is spending on new attractions, it's no wonder Disney isn't.
Again- Universal went through a dry spell this past decade (00-09) and Disney was adding left and right. The roles are simply reversed right now, and what's good for central Florida benefits everyone, including the mouse.

Disney will add attractions again, once Universal spends their billion. Then they'll just have to "plus it".

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

One last thing I think the UNI fanboys wouldn't have to exaggerate how awesome UNI is if the PIXIEDUSTERS wouldn't try to cover up for WDWs obvious blunders. JUST SAYING...

 

[ford91exploder]

Y'all need to stop praising Universal because they're adding hotels and opening new attractions. This isn't monopoly. Universal is playing catch-up. They skipped school last week and have to do the make-up, they're not in AP classes. There's too much credit given to them.
Remember this past decade when Universal didn't do much pre-Potter and Disney opened quite a few things? Not to mention Disney already has 4 parks, a bigger downtown complex, and considerably more hotels.
Universal might be adding more rooms, but Disney already has those rooms. What's their response supposed to be? EVEN MORE rooms? They added Bay Lake Towers and added another DVC timeshare to the G-Flo in the past couple years. They're on a different playing field in their business. Adding hotels and attractions isn't their focus right now, why is everyone acting like Disney is done? They just spent a billion dollars on this MyMagic+ system. Love it or hate it, Disney isn't spending a dime til they figure it out. A billion dollars is roughly what Universal is spending on new attractions, it's no wonder Disney isn't.
Again- Universal went through a dry spell this past decade (00-09) and Disney was adding left and right. The roles are simply reversed right now, and what's good for central Florida benefits everyone, including the mouse.

Disney will add attractions again, once Universal spends their billion. Then they'll just have to "plus it".

First off I have not been to UNI since a corporate event there in 2003 or so, Hence I'm not in the UNI camp, Right now there is a bit of a kerfuffle on Wall St about why Disney is not investing in parks in a highly competitive business environment but is instead doing a stock buyback program.

If I had to guess I'd say that P&R is about to be sold off.

 

[ford91exploder]

One last thing I think the UNI fanboys wouldn't have to exaggerate how awesome UNI is if the PIXIEDUSTERS wouldn't try to cover up for WDWs obvious blunders. JUST SAYING...

What about those of us who are not pixiedusters, who think Disney is simply doing some ill advised financial engineering which threatens to destroy stock price.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

What about those of us who are not pixiedusters, who think Disney is simply doing some ill advised financial engineering which threatens to destroy stock price.

Do tell. I'd like to hear more about this. What's p&r

 

[Captain Chaos]

Y'all need to stop praising Universal because they're adding hotels and opening new attractions. This isn't monopoly. Universal is playing catch-up. They skipped school last week and have to do the make-up, they're not in AP classes. There's too much credit given to them.
Remember this past decade when Universal didn't do much pre-Potter and Disney opened quite a few things? Not to mention Disney already has 4 parks, a bigger downtown complex, and considerably more hotels.
Universal might be adding more rooms, but Disney already has those rooms. What's their response supposed to be? EVEN MORE rooms? They added Bay Lake Towers and added another DVC timeshare to the G-Flo in the past couple years. They're on a different playing field in their business. Adding hotels and attractions isn't their focus right now, why is everyone acting like Disney is done? They just spent a billion dollars on this MyMagic+ system. Love it or hate it, Disney isn't spending a dime til they figure it out. A billion dollars is roughly what Universal is spending on new attractions, it's no wonder Disney isn't.
Again- Universal went through a dry spell this past decade (00-09) and Disney was adding left and right. The roles are simply reversed right now, and what's good for central Florida benefits everyone, including the mouse.

Disney will add attractions again, once Universal spends their billion. Then they'll just have to "plus it".

So, this has to be sarcasm... Has to be... We have to stop praising Universal because they are growing their business and footprint in Orlando? Really?? All they are adding is rooms and more attractions??? That is now a bad thing??? In order for WDW to grow, didn't Disney add more rooms and attractions? I guess that was ok cause Disney did it.. Now Universal is finally growing, and booo don't praise it!!!! Wow.. just wow...

Let's see.. Disney opened AoA resort last year (more rooms), GF DVC (more rooms) and now will be adding DVC to Poly (more rooms)... And what else.. Hmm, benches in Fantasmic and themed bathrooms... I guess we should praise that right?

If your post was not sarcasm, I feel bad for you...

 

[raymusiccity]

Just got back to my room on WDW property having spent 1 day of our 8 day trip at Universal - we did a 1 day park-to-park at Uni.

This was not our first time to Potterworld and the rest of Universal, and I was looking forward to today and going back. However I must say after today, while it wasn't a terrible experience,I'm happy to be back at WDW tonight. While there's no arguing Uni is moving at a faster building pace and being more aggressive, however IMHO bigger/faster/quicker doesn't translate to better and that showed.

I think they should rename Universal Studios to UniverSIMULATOR Studios. Is their business model now 'Lets take this franchise and turn it into a simulator?' Look at their last few builds....Despicable Me, Transformers, Potter, Spider-Man HD upgrade, Simpsons, etc....all based around simulators. To me, after spending a full day, this got real old, real quick. And now there is talk of ripping out E.T.? Major no-no in my book if they do so. Quality is down, and it seems they are in the race to win quantity of new rides.....not quality.

Also, over the past few years I've read on here how people think Uni is catching up to Disney on the 'show/cast member front' and guest interaction. Not true. I saw Betty Boop and her security guard looking at a smart phone texting when their line was slow. When in line for the Simpsons ride, the cast member wouldn't stop (loudly) rapping, over and over again, the words to a Drake song. Multiple times asked cast members simple questions - where are restrooms, what are park hours, when is parade, where is xx? And we got the deer in head lights look. Not expecting everyone to know everything, however never experience at WDW.

Final thought....while Uni sure is building and growing the number of new attractions faster than WDW, I think the quality of these attractions will not last the long haul. And one of the main reasons I feel this is because everything new is a simulator, and at the end of the day, Unis theming is no where near WDW, and their cast members aren't held to the same high standard as Disney.

Rant over. Felt something needed to be said though after having just spent $130 for 1 day.

I agree wholeheartedly that Uni is no where near the quality of Disneyworld .

Just look at this 'rehab' vs. how Disney has photorealistic draping whenever they freshen up a facade.

 

[Mike C]

View attachment 32545

I agree wholeheartedly that Uni is no where near the quality of Disneyworld .

Just look at this 'rehab' vs. how Disney has photorealistic draping whenever they freshen up a facade.

I was there the day they were doing that, they did put that up, then right after a photorealistic drape over it not too much later and did all that pretty quick. I think they were just setting up in that pic.

I don't get the simulator comment, Universal only has 2 pure simulators where your car is effectively stationary with some in place tilting and vertical movement. (Like Star Tours, Soarin, and Mission Space), and 3 hybrid dark ride simulators. (which are actual track moving rides with physical sets and simulator portions, Disney does not have anything similar to these, even 14 years after Spiderman.)

 

[HMF]

It is not an upgrade. It is not a new addition. It is what should be done and was done for many years in the past. Flash forward to this century. WDW saw a major downturn in maintenance and refurbs. This was also combined with a shortage of frequent quality additions. I think up to this point we are in total agreement. Where we differ slightly is the current direction of WDW. It's my contention that things may be starting to stabilize and we have actually seen some improvements this year at least at MK. I have a hard time classifying WDW as still moving downward right now. For me its more like neutral with a glimpse of a positive trend.

I understand what you are hinting at. I feel at the TDO level with "Clueless Crofton" gone we might start seeing some improvements on the micro-level Day to Day maintenance, Refurbs etc. On the over-all picture however Burbank is forcing this Next Gen disaster down Orlando's throat and I feel that it's going to backfire big time. The thing you have to understand about the people who designed this juggernaut. They don't think about Real-time application or the business of running a theme park. The Iger/Staggs/Rasulo contingent are narcissists who think that they are the smartest guys in the company due to their lofty positions. They don't realize that the reason they got to where they are is because of the legacy of their Predecessors, namely Walt and to a lesser-extent Michael Eisner. If they do any damage to that legacy which I believe they are doing the public will stop caring and the whole empire will come falling down and it will take A LOT of work to fix the public perception problems. Of course by that point the Three Stooges will likely be gone from the company counting their riches. Michael Eisner was flawed no doubt about it but I am pretty sure he was passionate and still cared about the company and it's future in a much more genuine way than Iger will once he departs the CEO role in 2016 leaving whoever is left to fix the mess.