Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

[lebeau]

ok so let's be open minded and realistic for a minute... we know:

- they are doing more refurbs here lately than they use to so that's a good sign
- investing a ton in NexGen and MyMagic+ "stuff" for the future of the theme parks
- the Disney Springs project looks encouraging (at least to me anyways) and could be a really nice addition if done the way the concept art shows (and they get some good stores, etc.)
- stars wars land is a pretty realistic rumor
- avatarland (or something in AK) is likely coming
- Imagination pavilion rumored to be redone?
- new parade coming to MK
- possible new night show coming to DAK
- extremely popular villains event recently

knowing that Uni continues to grow and build new attractions....what do you think is or should be WDW's next big plan (or plans)?

I love this. Everyone be open minded and realistic while I put the most positive spin imaginable on what we know about Disney's plans for the future.

Let me fix this for you

- they are doing long overdue refurbs here lately
- investing a ton in NexGen and MyMagic+ "stuff" for future data mining
- the Disney Springs project looks like a really nice mall - hopefully they can find tennants willing to pay what they are asking
- stars wars land has yet to been greenlit and is at least 3 years from being a reality.
- avatarland is coming at the same snail's pace as the vastly underwhelming Fantasyland project
- Imagination pavilion is still showing a music video from the 80s and like most of Future World is in desperate need of an update
- new parade coming to MK for the first time in how many years as the decades-old night time parade continues to shamble along and the other venerable nighttime parade rotted in a tent.
- possible new night show coming to DAK or possibly nothing
- extremely popular villains event recently as part of one of the least successful promotions in recent memory

You forgot about such exciting developments as Starbucks and Glowing Mickey Ears for $25. More DVC everywhere you look and constantly rising prices. It is truly a magical time to be a WDW fan.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Who needs new rides when we can have new queues for old rides?

I'm hoping Universal will follow the Innovator's lead and install new queues for Dr. Doom's Fearfall and the Pteronodon Flyers.

 

[WDWDad13]

I love this. Everyone be open minded and realistic while I put the most positive spin imaginable on what we know about Disney's plans for the future.

Let me fix this for you

- they are doing long overdue refurbs here lately
- investing a ton in NexGen and MyMagic+ "stuff" for future data mining
- the Disney Springs project looks like a really nice mall - hopefully they can find tennants willing to pay what they are asking
- stars wars land has yet to been greenlit and is at least 3 years from being a reality.
- avatarland is coming at the same snail's pace as the vastly underwhelming Fantasyland project
- Imagination pavilion is still showing a music video from the 80s and like most of Future World is in desperate need of an update
- new parade coming to MK for the first time in how many years as the decades-old night time parade continues to shamble along and the other venerable nighttime parade rotted in a tent.
- possible new night show coming to DAK or possibly nothing
- extremely popular villains event recently as part of one of the least successful promotions in recent memory

You forgot about such exciting developments as Starbucks and Glowing Mickey Ears for $25. More DVC everywhere you look and constantly rising prices. It is truly a magical time to be a WDW fan.

doom and gloom much?

 

[lebeau]

doom and gloom much?

Nice substantive response. When you don't have a valid counter-argument, labeling works.

 

[GoofGoof]

I love this. Everyone be open minded and realistic while I put the most positive spin imaginable on what we know about Disney's plans for the future.

Let me fix this for you

- they are doing long overdue refurbs here lately
- investing a ton in NexGen and MyMagic+ "stuff" for future data mining
- the Disney Springs project looks like a really nice mall - hopefully they can find tennants willing to pay what they are asking
- stars wars land has yet to been greenlit and is at least 3 years from being a reality.
- avatarland is coming at the same snail's pace as the vastly underwhelming Fantasyland project
- Imagination pavilion is still showing a music video from the 80s and like most of Future World is in desperate need of an update
- new parade coming to MK for the first time in how many years as the decades-old night time parade continues to shamble along and the other venerable nighttime parade rotted in a tent.
- possible new night show coming to DAK or possibly nothing
- extremely popular villains event recently as part of one of the least successful promotions in recent memory

You forgot about such exciting developments as Starbucks and Glowing Mickey Ears for $25. More DVC everywhere you look and constantly rising prices. It is truly a magical time to be a WDW fan.

Are the refurbs overdue? Yes, absolutely. For me that takes nothing away from the fact that they are being done. Do we discount Potterland because Universal desperately needed a major attendance boost at IOA? Nope. Do we discount the quality of the refresh that happened at DL because it was way overdue? Nope. If they commit the time and money to much needed refurbs it's a good thing and a step in the right direction.

 

[lebeau]

Are the refurbs overdue? Yes, absolutely. For me that takes nothing away from the fact that they are being done. Do we discount Potterland because Universal desperately needed a major attendance boost at IOA? Nope. Do we discount the quality of the refresh that happened at DL because it was way overdue? Nope. If they commit the time and money to much needed refurbs it's a good thing and a step in the right direction.

Agreed. But I'm also not turning cartwheels because Disney is finally doing something that should be SOP.

 

[alphac2005]

Just a general thought here... It seems like the majority of the threads have become incredibly derailed and at face value, the simple lack of any news outside of a Starbucks opening or prices rising could be an answer as to why, but the more you look into the threads, it just seems like there have been new posters who have surfaced over the past few months that simply derail the topics and act as a counterweight to anything negative about the state of affairs at TDO. If someone was a cynic, they might even think that some of these posters are getting marching orders from TDO....

 

[1023]

There are four folks here who consistently disregard the real negatives of MM+ and it's sweeping changes in park experience. I have been very willing to point at good things when I have seen them. I am equally willing and feel obligated to point out the negative.

I'll set aside the "tracking" aspect of things and help to answer the most obvious negative. With FastPassMinus, you are now LIMITED to 3 or possibly 4 passes per day. You are LIMITED to do this in ONLY 1 park per day. Thus, the bread and butter guests have had their experience LIMITED. This is only the two most blatantly LIMITING things you have to recognize. Legacy FastPass was UNLIMITED in the sense that you could acquire them throughout the day in multiple parks. There are more examples, but I am keeping this post simple.

UO on the other hand has available an UNLIMITED ExpressPass. They took the idea of the FastPass and made it truly UNLIMITED.

WDW is LIMITING their "guests" with FastPassMinus and UO is allowing their "customers" to be UNLIMITED. Universal Orlando giveth and WDW taketh away.

*1023*

 

[GoofGoof]

Well I'm not a Uni fanboy at all. I'm a disney fanboy as I have said repeatedly, but I swear you guys can't stay on topic in a thread if it killed you. This thread has nothing to do with which property is better. It also doesn't have a darn thing to do with what MIGHT happen sometime in the future. It's about the direction each company is headed and I have heard VERY LITTLE rebuttal of what I've said about that. Uni is headed up and wdw down. That's what I came to this thread to discuss.

You can't ignore what is likely to happen in the future when evaluating the direction both resorts are going in. It has to be part of the equation.

There has been rebuttal. You just discount or ignore it. Several posters have pointed out that the recent trend towards refurbs is a step in the right direction for WDW. FLE, Avatar and Disney Springs are all announced or in process. Possible Star Wars Land has people excited. At least a few people said they really think NextGen is a positive addition. For some people that are less optimistic about these changes WDW is flat but not down. With all of that going on its not unanimous that WDW is going down.

I haven't seen many people argue that Universal isn't moving upward. The numbers back this too. There were a few who said they were unimpressed with some of the new additions to Universal so for them I guess it could be neutral or even declining.

 

[GoofGoof]

There are four folks here who consistently disregard the real negatives of MM+ and it's sweeping changes in park experience. I have been very willing to point at good things when I have seen them. I am equally willing and feel obligated to point out the negative.

I'll set aside the "tracking" aspect of things and help to answer the most obvious negative. With FastPassMinus, you are now LIMITED to 3 or possibly 4 passes per day. You are LIMITED to do this in ONLY 1 park per day. Thus, the bread and butter guests have had their experience LIMITED. This is only the two most blatantly LIMITING things you have to recognize. Legacy FastPass was UNLIMITED in the sense that you could acquire them throughout the day in multiple parks. There are more examples, but I am keeping this post simple.

UO on the other hand has available an UNLIMITED ExpressPass. They took the idea of the FastPass and made it truly UNLIMITED.

WDW is LIMITING their "guests" with FastPassMinus and UO is allowing their "customers" to be UNLIMITED. Universal Orlando giveth and WDW taketh away.

*1023*

Playing devils advocate a little here because I'm not a big fan of FP+ either, but other than MK are there more than 3 rides that need FP?
EPCOT = Soarin and TT
DHS = ToT, TSMM and RnRC
AK = EE and Safari
MK = 3 mountains plus maybe Pan, Pooh and Buzz

I don't think it's necessary to have more than 3 anywhere but MK during busy times.

The park hopping restriction is a negative and you can't get 2 for the same ride on the same day. My biggest problem is having to book reservations 60 days in advance, but like ADRs it's something we will need to adjust to.

 

[GoofGoof]

Agreed. But I'm also not turning cartwheels because Disney is finally doing something that should be SOP.

I'm with you. I think I referred to it as too early to even be cautiously optimistic, but if the refurbs are done well (like Splash) and spread to other parks too it may be time for me to start stretching - I might seriously hurt myself if I tried a cartwheel now

 

[Bairstow]

I wonder if someone from upper, upper Disney management is going to take a look at what Universal is doing, or rather how, and how quickly they're doing it, and structure a sea-change in the way WDI does business.
At this point, the time and expense it takes WDI to get anything done is surely the biggest reason almost nothing at Disney ever gets built whereas a lean, hungry outfit like Universal Creative is practically building Rome every 200 days.

 

[Lexxweb]

And then everyone abandoned it for a monetized version while Disney continues to struggle to find some way to make FP work the way it was intended.

FP+ had better be a lot more successful than FP was.

It's lose lose with some people around here. So would you of been happier if Disney sold Fastpasses? Universal wins because they got greedy with a concept that wasn't even theirs?
Disney's re-inventing Fastpasses yet again, and I'm still thrilled I won't have to pay to skip the lines at the select few attractions I care to skip the lines at.

 

[lebeau]

I'm with you. I think I referred to it as too early to even be cautiously optimistic, but if the refurbs are done well (like Splash) and spread to other parks too it may be time for me to start stretching - I might seriously hurt myself if I tried a cartwheel now

Literal cartwheels? I would have hurt myself 50 lbs ago. But I can still turn a mean metaphorical cartwheel.

By all means, give Disney credit when they do something right! It doesn't happen all that often. So I am glad maintenance is being done. But I also don't want to give them too much credit for doing something that should be a given.

I have made this comparison before, but Disney is like your failing student who brings home a D-. Sure, an improvement was made and praise is warranted. But they still have a long way to go. And it could just be a fluke.

 

[lebeau]

It's lose lose with some people around here. So would you of been happier if Disney sold Fastpasses? Universal wins because they got greedy with a concept that wasn't even theirs?
Disney's re-inventing Fastpasses yet again, and I'm still thrilled I won't have to pay to skip the lines at the select few attractions I care to skip the lines at.

The pay model works better. That's why everyone else in the industry has adopted it.

Would I be happier? Probably not. Like most people around here, I know how to use and abuse the FP system to my advantage. That's why FP is so popular round these parts. But just because we select few are able to maximize our own benefit, that does not make it a good system.

 

[FrankLapidus]

The pay model works better. That's why everyone else in the industry has adopted it.

Would I be happier? Probably not. Like most people around here, I know how to use and abuse the FP system to my advantage. That's why FP is so popular round these parts. But just because we select few are able to maximize our own benefit, that does not make it a good system.

Out of interest, how did you use and abuse the FP system? We're going to WDW next month and are booking our FP's now so what was it about the system that has compelled them to change it? I lost track of the MM+ debate a long time ago so I'm still puzzled as to what was wrong with FP, the new system is a lot of needless hassle.

 

[Bairstow]

The pay model works better. That's why everyone else in the industry has adopted it.

It also engenders feelings of aversion for the guests who chose not to pay the extra money for the service.
With Disney already being the premium entrance ticket, and fast pass already having been a free service for over a decade, a movement to a pay model now would be a sure way to put guest satisfaction through the floor.

 

[lebeau]

It also engenders feelings of aversion for the guests who chose not to pay the extra money for the service.
With Disney already being the premium entrance ticket, and fast pass already having been a free service for over a decade, a movement to a pay model now would be a sure way to put guest satisfaction through the floor.

Oh sure. Disney couldn't switch now or they most certainly would have. I'm sure they wanted to.

Usually, at parks that use a pay model, it's a non-issue because most guests don't use it. The ones that do pay for the privelege. It's a proven model that I'm sure Disney wishes they had used. But instead, they thought they would make money off increased shopping and dining.

 

[lebeau]

Out of interest, how did you use and abuse the FP system? We're going to WDW next month and are booking our FP's now so what was it about the system that has compelled them to change it? I lost track of the MM+ debate a long time ago so I'm still puzzled as to what was wrong with FP, the new system is a lot of needless hassle.

A few steps on the old system:

1. Use it. This alone puts you ahead of the game.
2. Know where to use it. It seems obvious to us, but a lot of casual tourists wasted FPs on rides with relatively short wait times.
3. Horde FPs. Under the old system when return times were not being enforced, you could start collecting FPs early in the morning and then sit on them until later in the afternoon when lines were long. I usually had a thick stack of unused FPs by the end of any trip.

 

[Bairstow]

It's a proven model that I'm sure Disney wishes they had used. But instead, they thought they would make money off increased shopping and dining.

They might have been right, though.
While I don't have any figures in front of me, I'm fairly confident that a larger portion of WDW's profits come from food/merch sales than say, Six Flags'.