Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

[CJR]

I think the real difference is that Disney isn't trying to grow outward anymore and is trying to upgrade what it already has. New attractions like Star Wars and the infamous Avatar will ultimately come too. FL's still not completely finished either. Disney's still moving, it's just much slower than Universal. Disney doesn't need to move at the same rate as Universal.

Universal has become from being just OK to amazing. The two parks are both great and it's crazy to think they're only going to get better over the next decade.

In terms of expansion, Universal will definitely have to buy up land. The most obvious choice would be to expand along Major Blvd. Will the businesses sell? That will be Universal's challenge. Of course, they also own the Wet n' Wild land now so they have some area for growth already. I think they are very much aware that a third gate is definitely a long term goal and it's probably over a decade off from happening. The focus will probably stick with current land for a while and developing a Universal-branded water park.

I think both places will find ways to exist with Universal seeing a lot more growth than Disney and the playing field will become more level. We will be the ones who will ultimately benefit, it will just take some time.

 

[Lexxweb]

This is a load of dung. Disney is spending a billion or so dollars on the "nice to do" rather than the "need to do". It's nothing but a glorified paper-pushing project. What will make customers happy is good service and new attractions. They can be done at the same time.




No they didn't but they have let the distance between them and their competitors to become closer than it ever has by being stupid. Repackaging staleness is their only innovation at the moment.



Where do they want me? At Universal, cruising (non-Disney), more weeks at the Jersey shore?




And if they're not careful and don't exhibit some sense of urgency they'll hear a collective yawn or crickets when they finally declare its "go time".

Yep. Disney is spending a billion dollars for fun. Guess that settles the thread, no need to continue a discussion.

 

[Captain Neo]

I think until Disney fully realizes My Disney Experience and MyMagic+ it's going to be slow on purpose. I think Disney is trying to get their act together as an operation. How do they operate what they currently have (significantly more than Universal) and how they operate the best where no one can touch them.
Once they have an operation that makes guests and cast members happy (and believe me..they'll figure it out and make it happen) then they can start to open new projects left and right.
New attractions + better operation for guests = competition.

Disney didn't get this far by being stupid. They're innovators and if you don't understand what they're doing right now because they don't have cranes everywhere like Universal well then you're exactly where they want you. For years Disney has been at the front of speculation and people trying to figure out what secrets Disney is keeping and now they can work on things and nobody is trying to figure them out thanks to the distraction that is Universal.

Just wait- once Disney has MyMagic+ down. It'll be go time.

The "innovators that got them to where they are today" are no longer with the company and haven't been in a long time. You do know that right? Disney isn't run by the same people it was in walt's time or even the 1980s. It's now a corporation with a bloated bureaucracy and decisions are made using spreadsheets and focus groups and given the smallest budgets possible because the focus has shifted from long term value for customers to short term profits that appease Wall Street analysts.

 

[magicallactose]

Disney is twice as old and more than twice as big as UNI... Uni may add 10,000 rooms and a third gate, but WDW already has over 30,000 rooms and 4 gates... Like the last poster said Uni is at the same point WDW was in the late 80's early 90's they shouldn't have the same business plans because their at 2 completely different stages of development

But the one thing WDW has that Uni doesn't is that "nostalgia" or a history, people have been riding Small World, Big Thunder, Space Mountain, Pirates, Haunted Mansion, ect... for over 30 years, Uni is always going to have to spend money replacing attractions in order to keep pace with WDW

True, for for the vast majority of the older generation (people in their 30s and up), theme park nostalgia is largely tied to classic Disney rides. Disney, after all, created the very notion of a theme park.

But nostalgia is a fluid thing. Disney does not have a stranglehold on it. Every child that is awed into reverential silence when handed their very own wand in Olivanders, every child that feels a rush of pride when hearing Optimus Prime refer to them as Freedom Fighters, every child whose eyes widen at their first glimpse of a living dinosaur will forever be tied to the Universal Parks through these memories.

 

[draybook]

I don't think they're in any danger of being "left in the dust", at least not in capacity and number of visitors. Disney is still king by more than an estimated 34 million visitors, so Uni has a long way to go to catch up. However, in regards to innovation and themed entertainment, sure, I think that's already happening. If they haven't already, Disney will begin to notice a decline in revenue and number of days people stay on property, and some of their parks might see a slight drop in attendance, and that will hopefully lead them to look at new ways to gain that back.

Nicki Minaj has sold millions of records, but I'd hardly call her great. Numbers don't always mean everything. Disney isn't going to notice NOR admit a decline simply because there's always people going there based on nostalgia or first time visitors. Their brand name is much more well known, so they have to work a lot less at getting their product out there as compared to Universal.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

I don't think they're in any danger of being "left in the dust", at least not in capacity and number of visitors. Disney is still king by more than an estimated 34 million visitors, so Uni has a long way to go to catch up. However, in regards to innovation and themed entertainment, sure, I think that's already happening. If they haven't already, Disney will begin to notice a decline in revenue and number of days people stay on property, and some of their parks might see a slight drop in attendance, and that will hopefully lead them to look at new ways to gain that back.

I've been a pretty big disney fanboy for a long time, but I'm sorry disney IS IN DANGER OF BEING LEFT IN THE DUST. When is the last time you went into the monorail station at Epcot? I suggest next time you go to Epcot, you walk outside the park and go into the station and look around. It is a crappy shell of its former glory. It literally could be a train station in Detroit. When you're done there head over to the horizons building and look around. then trek over to journey into imagination and look at the conditions of the fountains out front let alone the actual attractions inside. This is just a small representation of the condition of the entire Wdw property. The wdw parks are not just standing still while Uni is improving. The WDW parks are actually declining! They are getting LESS fun. Disney IS NOT waking up my friends. It's sad but true. Uni knows this that is why they have stomped on the gas pedal. Uni CAN overtake disney.

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

I have to disagree with your implication that some day the Disney films and attractions that have been popular since the 1930's will some day just cease to draw a crowd. I think people will always want to come and see the Disney stuff because it's practically an American tradition, but I think that the Transforms will eventually lose their appeal like Back to the Future did, at which point Uni will have to replace it.

That's the difference in the business models, Disney coasts by on their legacy because they have a legacy to coast on, Universal, like all other amusement parks, has to constantly generate hype in order to survive. To me the Disney Company is like the Coca-Cola Company, they both created an "original" product that become a part of the American popular culture, and Universal is like Pepsi, they are the "imitators", they will always be no.2 in the public's mind

I'm glad you brought up the Coke/Pepsi thing because I was just thinking how this was a similar situation. There was a time when Pepsi almost overtook Coke. Old timers will remember when coke changed their formula. It's now remembered as a genius marketing move by Coke but that is not true. The genius move was switching the formula back. You see the reason coke changed the formula in the first place was because Pepsi was gaining serious ground on coke because pepsi was using the pepsi challenge to prove that people actually liked the taste of pepsi better and at the rate that people were switching, Pepsi would be #1 in 10 - 20 years. Had coke not realized their mistake at the time PEPSI would now be #1. Coke had all the nostalgia. But the minute they switched the formula, all the nostalgia was gone! In a lot of ways disney is just like coke. They are becoming more like regular theme parks by building more and more thrill based rides and removing the classic disney type stuff. Just like coke, the nostalgia is rapidly leaving disney. Coke might have stuck to their guns on the decision it was a GIANT company wide effort and giant BOONDOGGLE when they retooled the entire company to switch the coke formula they literally spent millions and millions maybe even Billions(sound familiar? Mm+) doing it! Luckily for coke stockholders someone at coke realized the giant mistake and corrected it or there is no doubt Pepsi would have overtook coke. Btw coke fanboys were screaming at the top of their lungs at coke, telling them how they were screwing up(just like a lot of us are on this board) Will disney realize they are screwing up? Maybe. But they sure aren't showing any signs of it. Just like coke almost did, disney can go past the point of no return.

 

[Jacquellie]

I'm a disney fanatic - but contrarily, I thought universal was more interesting. Only been once, 15 years ago and I remember saying 'I prefer this to disney world because it's more adult'. But over the years WDW has captured my heart - it's the magic, I totally buy into it. So my question is, does universal do "magic"? Leaving attractions and accommodations aside, what are they doing to match that disney "feeling"? Any insights or observations?

 

[Voice of Disney sanity]

True, for for the vast majority of the older generation (people in their 30s and up), theme park nostalgia is largely tied to classic Disney rides. Disney, after all, created the very notion of a theme park.

But nostalgia is a fluid thing. Disney does not have a stranglehold on it. Every child that is awed into reverential silence when handed their very own wand in Olivanders, every child that feels a rush of pride when hearing Optimus Prime refer to them as Freedom Fighters, every child whose eyes widen at their first glimpse of a living dinosaur will forever be tied to the Universal Parks through these memories.

Other People on here refer to things like transformers not living on to become classics. Ask anyone in their 30s... They're already classics. The transformers are from the 80s

 

[danlb_2000]

Uni is not going to build a third gate any time soon for the same reason Disney isn't building a fifth gate anytime soon, there just simply isn't a market for it in orlando at this point and there probably won't be for another 20+ years. If Uni builds a third park it would completely cannibalize the other two parks, more so than a fifth gate would cannibalize disney's remaining 4. Oh not to mention the labor market for theme park employees in the orlando area is already fairly dried up between the 7 parks (9 if you count discovery cove and legoland)

I think the adding 10,000 to 15,000 hotel is a very risky move, the hotel industry in orlando is already quite over saturated and that would be a very difficult amount of rooms to keep occupied. One reason Disney can keep their rooms mostly occupied even in the slowest season is from the huge, and quite lucrative convention/ conference market that they have a very firm grasp on. As former Chicago mayor Daley said regarding Chicagos struggling status as a major convention/ conference hoster "Its hard to beat the mouse"

Over expansion can be every
bit as bad and even worse as sitting idle. And while UNI would never have to worry about that if they continue to improve their current offerings, when they start adding a third gate, and 15,000 hotel rooms they might be stretching themselves a little thin, which some could say is the situation that WDW currently finds itself in.

Isn't a market? In 2012, 48 million people went to WDW, but only 14 million went to Uni. For Uni there is a huge untapped market, 34 million people coming to Orlando who aren't currently going Uni.

 

[danlb_2000]

Look...I'm not here to get a rise out of stupid posts by anyone...I'm here to see the latest Disney news and rumors within a Disney fan community....not an anti Disney community

Honestly I have a lot of the same beliefs many of you have about Disney not up to the same standards they use to be and are slow to do anything these days....HOWEVER the doom and gloomers go waaaaay overboard drooling about everything Uni does and thinking they will overtake wdw and as if they will be closing their doors in a few years. Unreal

Disney will do big things for a while and then Uni will do big things and then it'll keep repeating. We all win

I'm not against Uni heck I welcome competition. This can only be a good thing for Disney and especially for us. I'm trying to be realistic here...the more fun either creates the more fun we will all have but the complete anti-Disney anything talk as if they can do no right ever again is ludicrous

Saying peoples posts are "stupid" just undermines your position that you are not trying to get a rise out of people.

As for competition, I would say right now the competition that Uni is providing ISN'T a good things because Disney is reacting, not by putting in innovative new attractions like the used to, but by trying to find ways to get more money out of the people who are already coming to the parks. That is not good for the guests. I am making my next trip to Disney next fall and at this point I am having a hard time justifying spending any time in DHS or AK, I will probably give those days to Uni.

 

[xstech25]

Disney did their massive expansions of hotels and parks in the 80s/90s when the property was under-developed, in my opinion the MyMagic+ thing is going to need to happen anyway so they may as well do it now. If Disney didn't do it first, then Universal would have done it first and everyone on here would be complaining about it anyway that Universal is doing it before Disney.

The truth is MM+ is Disney taking what their customers saying seriously and putting their money where their mouth is. Obviously planning a Disney vacation is easy for you and me, but the average family from Ohio it can be completely overwhelming. ADRs, tickets, hotels, fastpass, etc. MM+ makes it so you can do it all very easily from your computer before even leaving home. Actually IMO its long overdue.

And honestly I think in the next few years we're going to start seeing a lot of new stuff coming to WDW. We all know it takes Disney a long time to plan and build things, so they probably didn't have a ton of staff for major projects that would be taking place now because of the economy tanking (and a lot of them i'm sure were working on China's new park and DCA redo). But now that they've seen how resilient the parks have been and people are starting to get used to this new economy they can bring in more people to take WDW projects and can go in with more confidence.

Disney needs to focus on removing, replacing, and updating things that are out of date. There is no lack of things to do at WDW, but attractions like Great Movie Ride, Imagination/EO, Little Mermaid show, etc all are way outdated. Star Tours went from being outdated and corny and now it's an awesome ride.

 

[GoofGoof]

True, for for the vast majority of the older generation (people in their 30s and up), theme park nostalgia is largely tied to classic Disney rides. Disney, after all, created the very notion of a theme park.

But nostalgia is a fluid thing. Disney does not have a stranglehold on it. Every child that is awed into reverential silence when handed their very own wand in Olivanders, every child that feels a rush of pride when hearing Optimus Prime refer to them as Freedom Fighters, every child whose eyes widen at their first glimpse of a living dinosaur will forever be tied to the Universal Parks through these memories.

The one issue Universal still has is that there is not enough appeal for little kids. The nostalgia that Disney has is largely based on the MK rides which a lot of us experienced as little kids. Maybe with Potter phase 2 there will be more focus on family friendly rides. Right now I don't go to Universal with my kids (3 and 6) because they are too small to ride a lot of the best rides. I know when they get older they will love the place, but for now we spend a lot of time at the Disney parks (except for DHS which has the same issue). By the time they experience Universal for the first time the nostalgia for WDW will already exist.

Another issue with nostalgia at Universal is they keep removing the older rides that could have some nostalgic appeal. While the new rides keep things fresh and modern the constant change is a challenge for building nostalgia. Potter isn't going anywhere anytime soon so that could have a great nostalgic appeal for future generations. Transformers, who knows. Jaws was based on a classic movie and got scrapped for progress. Transformers could face the same fate in 10 years. Of course if they keep building new and exciting rides there isn't a need to rely on nostalgia to keep people coming back.

 

[WDWDad13]

You all win....if your life is happier bashing everything Disney does or doesnt do and drooling over anything uni does...then have at it....I'll be enjoying the parks and happier/less negative doom and gloom fan communities

 

[GoofGoof]

You all win....if your life is happier bashing everything Disney does or doesnt do and drooling over anything uni does...then have at it....I'll be enjoying the parks and happier/less negative doom and gloom fan communities

I can't believe I won, I never win anything. What do I win?

 

[Skibum1970]

Disney did their massive expansions of hotels and parks in the 80s/90s when the property was under-developed, in my opinion the MyMagic+ thing is going to need to happen anyway so they may as well do it now. If Disney didn't do it first, then Universal would have done it first and everyone on here would be complaining about it anyway that Universal is doing it before Disney.

The truth is MM+ is Disney taking what their customers saying seriously and putting their money where their mouth is. Obviously planning a Disney vacation is easy for you and me, but the average family from Ohio it can be completely overwhelming. ADRs, tickets, hotels, fastpass, etc. MM+ makes it so you can do it all very easily from your computer before even leaving home. Actually IMO its long overdue.

And honestly I think in the next few years we're going to start seeing a lot of new stuff coming to WDW. We all know it takes Disney a long time to plan and build things, so they probably didn't have a ton of staff for major projects that would be taking place now because of the economy tanking (and a lot of them i'm sure were working on China's new park and DCA redo). But now that they've seen how resilient the parks have been and people are starting to get used to this new economy they can bring in more people to take WDW projects and can go in with more confidence.

Disney needs to focus on removing, replacing, and updating things that are out of date. There is no lack of things to do at WDW, but attractions like Great Movie Ride, Imagination/EO, Little Mermaid show, etc all are way outdated. Star Tours went from being outdated and corny and now it's an awesome ride.

Hey, what did Ohio do to you? Man, that's cold and I live in the state. No Christmas card for you!!! In all seriousness, I found making reservations pretty easy long before I ever became a more avid Disney fan. The dining reservations are nice but not that necessary. I planned trips for staying offsite and onsite with very little effort. I think MM+ is a waste but I am ready to admit that I haven't seen the final product. I do know that I am planning more time for UNI due to the new rides being readied or already open (Transformers, WWoHP, and even the Jurassic Park expansion if it happens). That wouldn't have happened, more than likely, if Disney had also stepped up their game. I am the type motivated by ride building. It's a four hour drive to Cedar Point and I'll typically only make it when new rides come in. I don't think that I'm all that different from others. The only difference could be that WDW is true resort (vs Cedar Point) but people do go where the excitement is. Right now, UNI has a lot of excitement and momentum.

 

[nor'easter]

You all win....if your life is happier bashing everything Disney does or doesnt do and drooling over anything uni does...then have at it....I'll be enjoying the parks and happier/less negative doom and gloom fan communities

You missed the point...you're the one drooling. But I'm glad you find Disney so MAGICAL.

 

[WDWDad13]

You missed the point...you're the one drooling. But I'm glad you find Disney so MAGICAL.

No one said I did...I'm just not a negative doom and gloomer while sipping on butterbeer

 

[jt04]

I thought this was worthy of its own thread, especially since a SPIRITED debate has buried most of this info.

This OP is to recap recent announcements/coverage of Universal's shots across the bow of USS (HMS for our UK friends) Disney and Disney's (lack of?) reaction.

Universal wants to add thousands of hotel rooms

Warner Bros. to release J.K. Rowling's 'Harry Potter' spinoff

Disney to buy back $6-8 bn in shares

The following are major comments from a recent investor conference at which both Disney and Universal presented (from Garcia):

Universal

• Whoa: NBCUniversal Steve Burke says, using the multiple SeaWorld currently trades at, Universal's theme parks are worth $9-10 billion now.

• Also just repeated his belief that Universal Orlando has room for 10,000 hotel rooms (has only about 2,400 now, not incl. Cabana Bay).

• Burke: “We love the theme-park business. We think there’s a real opportunity to increase the pace of new attractions.

• "... We have far too few hotel rooms in Orlando….You’ll see us add attractions at a more rapid rate, add hotel rooms at a more rapid rate."

• Sometimes I almost wonder if he's trolling them!...These quotes are unbelievable. Seriously. Is Disney awake?

• "I think you'll see us open hotels. We've done a study that says we could have 10,000 or 15,000 hotel rooms and still have occupancy.....that makes those rooms profitable. And all of those people staying in those hotels would be more likely to go to our theme parks. So.....I think, strategically, we need to get those hotel rooms open and build out the resort."

• Second, he said attendance at Universal Studios Florida has been up about 20 percent "most weeks" since Transformers opened.....

• Also said NBCU wants to continue the cadence of opening up at least one new attraction in both Orlando and Hollywood every year.

• And then a few fightin' words: Universal parks are becoming "a family destination in and of itself and not an add-on destination for...somebody that spends three or four days somewhere else." Gee, I wonder where that somewhere else might be.

• I'm probably just jumping at shadows here, but when Burke was describing "the "right kind of attraction"........one of his criteria was "clear and easy to market." That could very well have been a subtle shot at Disney's $1 billion MyMagic+ project. One of the main criticisms I've heard from theme-park strategic-planning types about MM+ is how hard it will be to market to consumers.

• From an analyst re: Steve Burke's comments today: "Universal Orlando clearly believes that they can offer a product that is every bit.....as attractive as Disney, if not more so. Being a weak number two player in the market has not been very profitable for the resort....in the past. They have shown in recent years that can meet or beat Disney in attraction quality at fraction of the price...." And so on.

Disney

• Jay Rasulo says 125K Disney World visitors have now tested MyMagic+ systems. Said tests have produced "very, very positive results." /ducks

• Rasulo also made a point of saying Disney had no weather impacts at WDW during the last quarter. Seemed like a subtle dig at SeaWorld.

• Also repeated Disney's basic strategic premise w/NextGen: The more pre-planning Disney visitors do, the more time & money they spend at WDW

• Rasulo also was a bit more direct in discussing the data-tracking motivation behind MM+, as well. "The more you share with us as a guest......the more we’re able to tailor services and, we think, get lift in selling those services.”

• Rasulo is asked if Disney will build Star Wars lands in theme parks. He didn't answer. But of course they will.

• That's it from Rasulo and Disney. Didn't hear anything new at all. Maybe they can bring Steve Burke back for an encore?

Universal has become reactionary and desperate. The mouse has not. This thread has now concluded as nothing more can be added.

~how bout another movie with dinosaurs?~

 

[jt04]

[quote="jt04, post: 5710661, member: 13037]

~how bout another movie with dinosaurs?~ [/quote]

~and ROBOTS!~