Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

[danlb_2000]

My feeling is that Disney management thinks further attempts to significantly increase attendance are a loosing proposition, that there just isn't enough untapped market lef

Just by looking at Google Maps, you can see that it's physically impossible for Universal to continue to grow. They were much too hesitant to acquire enough of a footprint early on. I'm always amazed at how close Potter is to a school athletic field just over the fence.

There was an article this week where Uni said they would like to add 10,000 to 15,000 more hotels rooms, and there is a strong rumor of a possible third gate, so it would seem that have some ideas on how to get more land. They don't have to use land directly bordering the current parks. Disney has miles between some of their parks.

 

[Captain Neo]

19 years plus the 10 years in the early 2000s where Universal built nothing.

They built the X-Men spinner, Flying Unicorn, Men In Black, and Revenge of the Mummy in the early 2000s I think they built as much as Disney park wise and that was when they barely had any money. What are you even talking about???

 

[gccgrad1996]

We have been going to Disney every summer since 2005. My husband and I have been to Uni in 1996 and 1999 for one day each, our children have never been. We are already planning our trip in 2015 to be only 5 days in Disney and 3 in Uni, we always go for 8 to 9 days in Disney, and we always stay on property. So I am one of those people who will be dumping less and less money into Disney each year. Unless Disney makes some big announcements soon with their parks, I foresee more split vacations every year, which makes me very sad.

 

[Lexxweb]

I think until Disney fully realizes My Disney Experience and MyMagic+ it's going to be slow on purpose. I think Disney is trying to get their act together as an operation. How do they operate what they currently have (significantly more than Universal) and how they operate the best where no one can touch them.
Once they have an operation that makes guests and cast members happy (and believe me..they'll figure it out and make it happen) then they can start to open new projects left and right.
New attractions + better operation for guests = competition.

Disney didn't get this far by being stupid. They're innovators and if you don't understand what they're doing right now because they don't have cranes everywhere like Universal well then you're exactly where they want you. For years Disney has been at the front of speculation and people trying to figure out what secrets Disney is keeping and now they can work on things and nobody is trying to figure them out thanks to the distraction that is Universal.

Just wait- once Disney has MyMagic+ down. It'll be go time.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I think until Disney fully realizes My Disney Experience and MyMagic+ it's going to be slow on purpose. I think Disney is trying to get their act together as an operation. How do they operate what they currently have (significantly more than Universal) and how they operate the best where no one can touch them.
Once they have an operation that makes guests and cast members happy (and believe me..they'll figure it out and make it happen) then they can start to open new projects left and right.
New attractions + better operation for guests = competition.

Disney didn't get this far by being stupid. They're innovators and if you don't understand what they're doing right now because they don't have cranes everywhere like Universal well then you're exactly where they want you. For years Disney has been at the front of speculation and people trying to figure out what secrets Disney is keeping and now they can work on things and nobody is trying to figure them out thanks to the distraction that is Universal.

Just wait- once Disney has MyMagic+ down. It'll be go time.

Post of the day.

 

[djlaosc]

19 years plus the 10 years in the early 2000s where Universal built nothing.

From Wikipedia...

UNIVERSAL STUDIOS FLORIDA:
April 4, 2000: Men in Black: Alien Attack opens in the World Expo area, on the former site of The Swamp Thing Set.
Summer 2001: Animal Planet Live opens, replacing Animal Actors Stage.
December 2002: Macy's Holiday Parade debuts at the park.
April 11, 2003: Jimmy Neutron's Nicktoon Blast opens, replacing The Funtastic World of Hanna-Barbera.
June 12, 2003: Shrek 4-D opens with Donkey's Photo Finish, replacing Alfred Hitchcock: The Art of Making Movies and Stage 54 respectively.
May 25, 2004: Revenge of the Mummy: The Ride opens, replacing Kongfrontation.
May 2005: Fear Factor Live opens, replacing The Wild Wild Wild West Stunt Show.
Spring 2006: Delancey Street Preview Center opens in the New York area.
July 4, 2006: Universal 360: A Cinesphere Spectacular opens, replacing Dynamite Nights Stunt Spectacular.
Fall 2006: Animal Planet Live is closed, and replaced by Animal Actors on Location.
June 6, 2007: Blue Man Group Sharp Aquos Theatre opens in CityWalk, replacing Nickelodeon Studios.
January 17, 2008: Disaster!: A Major Motion Picture Ride...Starring You! opens, replacing Earthquake: The Big One
May 15, 2008: The Simpsons Ride opens, replacing Back to the Future: The Ride.
February 21, 2009: The Universal Music Plaza Stage opens, replacing The Boneyard.
August 19, 2009: Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit opens.

ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE:
2000, May & June 29: Flying Unicorn and Storm Force Accelatron debut in the park's The Lost Continent and Marvel Super Hero Island areas, respectively.
2000, December: The annual GrinchMas event begins in the park's Seuss Landing area.
2002 Matt Hoffman's Freakin Crazy Stunt Show
2006, June: Sylvester McMonkey McBean's Very Unusual Driving Machines is rebuilt into a new concept, and officially opened as The High in the Sky Seuss Trolley Train Ride.
2009, October: Oh, The Stories You'll Hear! opens in the park's Seuss Landing area.
2010, March: Mat Hoffman's Aggro Circus debuts in the park's Toon Lagoon amphitheatre, the theater's first show since Mat Hoffman's Freakin Crazy Stunt Show in 2002.
2010, June 18: The seventh island, The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, is officially opened with a grand opening ceremony. The area is Islands of Adventure's biggest investment since the park's opening.
2010, December 13: After five years, Triceratops Discovery Trail is finally reopened to the public for a limited time, speculated to further remain seasonal during peak season.

...so, although lots of attractions replaced others (so the numbers of attractions didn't grow), Universal Studios Florida opened something every year between 2000 and 2009. Islands of Adventure got quiet after a while (something opening in 2004 would have helped bridge the gap between 2002 and 2006), but they did open 14+ attractions in 1999.

 

[Fe Maiden]

I think until Disney fully realizes My Disney Experience and MyMagic+ it's going to be slow on purpose. I think Disney is trying to get their act together as an operation. How do they operate what they currently have (significantly more than Universal) and how they operate the best where no one can touch them.
Once they have an operation that makes guests and cast members happy (and believe me..they'll figure it out and make it happen) then they can start to open new projects left and right.
New attractions + better operation for guests = competition.

This is a load of dung. Disney is spending a billion or so dollars on the "nice to do" rather than the "need to do". It's nothing but a glorified paper-pushing project. What will make customers happy is good service and new attractions. They can be done at the same time.

Disney didn't get this far by being stupid. They're innovators and if you don't understand what they're doing right now because they don't have cranes everywhere like Universal well then you're exactly where they want you.

No they didn't but they have let the distance between them and their competitors to become closer than it ever has by being stupid. Repackaging staleness is their only innovation at the moment.

if you don't understand what they're doing right now because they don't have cranes everywhere like Universal well then you're exactly where they want you.

Where do they want me? At Universal, cruising (non-Disney), more weeks at the Jersey shore?

For years Disney has been at the front of speculation and people trying to figure out what secrets Disney is keeping and now they can work on things and nobody is trying to figure them out thanks to the distraction that is Universal.
Just wait- once Disney has MyMagic+ down. It'll be go time.

And if they're not careful and don't exhibit some sense of urgency they'll hear a collective yawn or crickets when they finally declare its "go time".

 

[Goofyernmost]

Just by looking at Google Maps, you can see that it's physically impossible for Universal to continue to grow. They were much too hesitant to acquire enough of a footprint early on. I'm always amazed at how close Potter is to a school athletic field just over the fence.

Oh, they will pay more now but, everything has it's price.

 

[LucyK]

WB's CEO has also confirmed there are Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them attractions coming to WWoHP.

*fangirls into oblivion*

And that's exactly why Universal always get at least 5 park days out of me. It's not a add on for me, it's a major part of my planning.

 

[GoofGoof]

Forget about the share buybacks. It doesn't necessarily mean anything for the P&R segment. Comcast had a $6.5B stock buyback program last year and announced a $2B program 2013 in conjunction with buying out GEs 49% equity stake in NBC Universal for $17B with over $11B coming from cash on hand. Yet with all these cash outflows they still managed to set aside a billion or 2 for their parks.

If Universal figures out how to fit 6,000 to 10,000 more rooms into their available space that could be a real game changer. The only problem is there isn't a ton of space. Due to the land restrictions they would have to build high rise almost Vegas style hotel towers. They wouldn't have room to build spread out resorts. I guess they could also expand by buying out a few nearby hotels if any go on the market. I will be curious to see how Universal handles the building, operation and maintenance of all the infrastructure involved. They have lived largely as an add on for most visitors or a locals park. How will they handle being the destination instead. Will they add a version of the magic express bus from the airport? Will they add additional transportation (busses, monorail, trains, people movers)? Will they add a 3rd gate and/or another waterpark? This should be a pretty exciting time at Universal.

For Disney, they cannot match Universal's pace on expansion and building. Universal is in the type of growth phase Disney experienced in the late 80s through the 90s. Disney doesn't need major expansion. They should focus on the quality and upkeep of existing infrastucture and attractions. Although misguided and poorly executed I think Nextgen is built on this line of thinking. If they could return show quality back to the level of 15 to 20 years ago and add a new attraction/resort every couple of years Disney would keep things frsh and keep pace with Universal. Eventually the growth period will end for Universal too. We should all enjoy the ride while it lasts.

 

[Tim Lohr]

Disney is twice as old and more than twice as big as UNI... Uni may add 10,000 rooms and a third gate, but WDW already has over 30,000 rooms and 4 gates... Like the last poster said Uni is at the same point WDW was in the late 80's early 90's they shouldn't have the same business plans because their at 2 completely different stages of development

But the one thing WDW has that Uni doesn't is that "nostalgia" or a history, people have been riding Small World, Big Thunder, Space Mountain, Pirates, Haunted Mansion, ect... for over 30 years, Uni is always going to have to spend money replacing attractions in order to keep pace with WDW

 

[danlb_2000]

Disney is twice as old and more than twice as big as UNI... Uni may add 10,000 rooms and a third gate, but WDW already has over 30,000 rooms and 4 gates... Like the last poster said Uni is at the same point WDW was in the late 80's early 90's they shouldn't have the same business plans because their at 2 completely different stages of development

But the one thing WDW has that Uni doesn't is that "nostalgia" or a history, people have been riding Small World, Big Thunder, Space Mountain, Pirates, Haunted Mansion, ect... for over 30 years, Uni is always going to have to spend money replacing attractions in order to keep pace with WDW

Nostalgia is powerful, but it can only take you so far.

 

[ToTBellHop]

From Wikipedia...

UNIVERSAL STUDIOS FLORIDA:
April 4, 2000: Men in Black: Alien Attack opens in the World Expo area, on the former site of The Swamp Thing Set.
Summer 2001: Animal Planet Live opens, replacing Animal Actors Stage.
December 2002: Macy's Holiday Parade debuts at the park.
April 11, 2003: Jimmy Neutron's Nicktoon Blast opens, replacing The Funtastic World of Hanna-Barbera.
June 12, 2003: Shrek 4-D opens with Donkey's Photo Finish, replacing Alfred Hitchcock: The Art of Making Movies and Stage 54 respectively.
May 25, 2004: Revenge of the Mummy: The Ride opens, replacing Kongfrontation.
May 2005: Fear Factor Live opens, replacing The Wild Wild Wild West Stunt Show.
Spring 2006: Delancey Street Preview Center opens in the New York area.
July 4, 2006: Universal 360: A Cinesphere Spectacular opens, replacing Dynamite Nights Stunt Spectacular.
Fall 2006: Animal Planet Live is closed, and replaced by Animal Actors on Location.
June 6, 2007: Blue Man Group Sharp Aquos Theatre opens in CityWalk, replacing Nickelodeon Studios.
January 17, 2008: Disaster!: A Major Motion Picture Ride...Starring You! opens, replacing Earthquake: The Big One
May 15, 2008: The Simpsons Ride opens, replacing Back to the Future: The Ride.
February 21, 2009: The Universal Music Plaza Stage opens, replacing The Boneyard.
August 19, 2009: Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit opens.

ISLANDS OF ADVENTURE:
2000, May & June 29: Flying Unicorn and Storm Force Accelatron debut in the park's The Lost Continent and Marvel Super Hero Island areas, respectively.
2000, December: The annual GrinchMas event begins in the park's Seuss Landing area.
2002 Matt Hoffman's Freakin Crazy Stunt Show
2006, June: Sylvester McMonkey McBean's Very Unusual Driving Machines is rebuilt into a new concept, and officially opened as The High in the Sky Seuss Trolley Train Ride.
2009, October: Oh, The Stories You'll Hear! opens in the park's Seuss Landing area.
2010, March: Mat Hoffman's Aggro Circus debuts in the park's Toon Lagoon amphitheatre, the theater's first show since Mat Hoffman's Freakin Crazy Stunt Show in 2002.
2010, June 18: The seventh island, The Wizarding World of Harry Potter, is officially opened with a grand opening ceremony. The area is Islands of Adventure's biggest investment since the park's opening.
2010, December 13: After five years, Triceratops Discovery Trail is finally reopened to the public for a limited time, speculated to further remain seasonal during peak season.

...so, although lots of attractions replaced others (so the numbers of attractions didn't grow), Universal Studios Florida opened something every year between 2000 and 2009. Islands of Adventure got quiet after a while (something opening in 2004 would have helped bridge the gap between 2002 and 2006), but they did open 14+ attractions in 1999.

So Universal opened one good ride from 1999 to 2009: The Mummy. Impressive. WDW opened what during that time...

All Star Movies
Animal Kingdom Lodge
Pop Century
A bunch of DVCs (Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Saratoga, Animal Kingdom, Bay Lake Tower)
Winnie the Pooh
Magic Carpets
PhilharMagic
Wishes and its holiday versions
Stitch
MILF
MiSiCi
Test Track
Journey Into Imagination with Figment
Reflections of China
Mission Space
Turtle Talk
Soarin
The Seas with Nemo
Gran Fiesta Tour
Epcot Character Spot
Sum of all Thrills
RnRC
One Man's Dream
LMA
Midway Mania
American Idol
Kali
Jammin Jungle
Dino-Rama
Everest
Nemo Show

 

[misterID]

I think until Disney fully realizes My Disney Experience and MyMagic+ it's going to be slow on purpose. I think Disney is trying to get their act together as an operation. How do they operate what they currently have (significantly more than Universal) and how they operate the best where no one can touch them.
Once they have an operation that makes guests and cast members happy (and believe me..they'll figure it out and make it happen) then they can start to open new projects left and right.
New attractions + better operation for guests = competition.

Disney didn't get this far by being stupid. They're innovators and if you don't understand what they're doing right now because they don't have cranes everywhere like Universal well then you're exactly where they want you. For years Disney has been at the front of speculation and people trying to figure out what secrets Disney is keeping and now they can work on things and nobody is trying to figure them out thanks to the distraction that is Universal.

Just wait- once Disney has MyMagic+ down. It'll be go time.

I think that Disney had several big projects lined up for WDW, some in direct response to Potter, and MyMagic+ was much more problematic than they had anticipated, but instead of drawing back, they doubled down and those projects were scaled back, put on hold, or outright canceled because of MM+. I don't think anything transpiring right now at WDW with MM+ was part of some genius strategy, just them trying to pull themselves out of a mess they weren't anticipating. And guess what? That's business. Even Disney screws up and it's okay to say that.

It's not that they're stupid, it's that things don't always pan out the way you plan. What's stupid is how you respond to them. MM+ is too big of an investment to say, "We messed up." It's now the centerpiece of WDW expansion, not an attraction or attractions. And it was not planned that way.

 

[TalkingHead]

So Universal opened one good ride from 1999 to 2009: The Mummy. Impressive. WDW opened what during that time...

All Star Movies
Animal Kingdom Lodge
Pop Century
A bunch of DVCs (Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Saratoga, Animal Kingdom, Bay Lake Tower)
Winnie the Pooh
Magic Carpets
PhilharMagic
Wishes and its holiday versions
Stitch
MILF
MiSiCi
Test Track
Journey Into Imagination with Figment
Reflections of China
Mission Space
Turtle Talk
Soarin
The Seas with Nemo
Gran Fiesta Tour
Epcot Character Spot
Sum of all Thrills
RnRC
One Man's Dream
LMA
Midway Mania
American Idol
Kali
Jammin Jungle
Dino-Rama
Everest
Nemo Show

Gosh, that's a depressing list. If the 90s were the Disney decade, that should be the Disappointing Decade.

 

[misterID]

So Universal opened one good ride from 1999 to 2009: The Mummy. Impressive. WDW opened what during that time...

All Star Movies
Animal Kingdom Lodge
Pop Century
A bunch of DVCs (Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Saratoga, Animal Kingdom, Bay Lake Tower)
Winnie the Pooh
Magic Carpets
PhilharMagic
Wishes and its holiday versions
Stitch
MILF
MiSiCi
Test Track
Journey Into Imagination with Figment
Reflections of China
Mission Space
Turtle Talk
Soarin
The Seas with Nemo
Gran Fiesta Tour
Epcot Character Spot
Sum of all Thrills
RnRC
One Man's Dream
LMA
Midway Mania
American Idol
Kali
Jammin Jungle
Dino-Rama
Everest
Nemo Show

Yes, I remember that period, it's when the soul of EPCOT was ripped out

Should we do a comparison in the last five years?

Context, think about it.

 

[GoofGoof]

Gosh, that's a depressing list. If the 90s were the Disney decade, that should be the Disappointing Decade.

In their defense we did have 9/11 in there with a major downturn in tourism and then the banking crisis is 2008. Not exactly a boom time.

 

[willtravel]

Gosh, that's a depressing list. If the 90s were the Disney decade, that should be the Disappointing Decade.

Huh?

 

[TalkingHead]

In their defense we did have 9/11 in there with a major downturn in tourism and then the banking crisis is 2008. Not exactly a boom time.

Fair enough, but there are so many blown opportunities on that list, too.

Huh?

Can you not read? I said it's a disappointing list. See anything on that list that's likely to be remembered as fondly as Pirates, Mansion, the Mountains?

 

[willtravel]

Fair enough, but there are so many blown opportunities on that list, too.



Can you not read? I said it's a disappointing list. See anything on that list that's likely to be remembered as fondly as Pirates, Mansion, the Mountains?

Yes I do a hole...