Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

John

Well-Known Member
...and here we go
That's it....gloves coming off.......Dude I have read your post ......EVERY single post....even the few that actually contribute to the conversation and all end with a snide remark in it. Dosnt matter where or what subject it is on. You always have some smart comment to make. You complain about other peoples opinion ( queue: people who say I am complaining about people complaining) and rarely contribute anything meaningful other then a snarky attitude. Why? If it pains you so much about the comments/attitudes of the members on this site....why put yourself through it? Do you honestly think your approach is somehow going to change these attitudes?

There are literally a hundred threads on this site that has nothing but pixie dust sprinkled through them. Why Not
visit one of them....you will be happier and so will we. It just gets tiresome. Obviously you seemed to be weary also. Mad Hatter has some lovely threads I am sure that are more suitable for your taste.

There I said my piece.......how's your mom?
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
That's it....gloves coming off.......Dude I have read your post ......EVERY single post....even the few that actually contribute to the conversation and all end with a snide remark in it. Dosnt matter where or what subject it is on. You always have some smart comment to make. You complain about other peoples opinion ( queue: people who say I am complaining about people complaining) and rarely contribute anything meaningful other then a snarky attitude. Why? If it pains you so much about the comments/attitudes of the members on this site....why put yourself through it? Do you honestly think your approach is somehow going to change these attitudes?

There are literally a hundred threads on this site that has nothing but pixie dust sprinkled through them. Why Not
visit one of them....you will be happier and so will we. It just gets tiresome. Obviously you seemed to be weary also. Mad Hatter has some lovely threads I am sure that are more suitable for your taste.

There I said my piece.......how's your mom?

feel better now?
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Let's do a quick check here and see just what was gained by that. I'll just put OK, if it was somewhat positive.

All Star Movies OK, I guess...have never seen the inside.
Animal Kingdom Lodge OK
Pop Century OK, if you like paying 3 star prices for a one star accommodation
A bunch of DVCs (Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Saratoga, Animal Kingdom, Bay Lake Tower) Good for Disney, I'm not sure if there is a measurable value to regular park guests.
Winnie the Pooh OK, I won't argue that it replaced Toad, so boo! Toad was worse then Pooh.
Magic Carpets Yup, people came from miles around for that standard carnival spinner.
PhilharMagic OK, I've seen better higher quality things, but passable.
Wishes and its holiday versions If you have seen one exploding rocket show, you've seen them all.
Stitch Right!
MILF Not bad...different, but Timekeeper was better.
MiSiCi I have no idea what that is so can't comment.
Test Track Not terrible but it did replace a very nice dark ride.
Journey Into Imagination with Figment You have got to be kidding!
Reflections of China Nothing changed except a new film.
Mission Space Another good attraction that unfortunately replaced a great dark ride.
Turtle Talk OK
Soarin Very much OK.
The Seas with Nemo Sorry, nothing great there. A projection of cartoons over real animals does not improve or upgrade.
Gran Fiesta Tour Ruined a very nice boat ride, again not an improvement.
Epcot Character Spot Yup, I remember thinking...I can't wait to drive from Vermont because there is a new foam head meet and greet.
Sum of all Thrills Sealed up vomit containment vessel. Not sure if it was sealed up or not, but it should have been.
RnRC OK
One Man's Dream Very OK
LMA OK, not awful.
Midway Mania OK
American Idol Seriously? Not any better then "So you want to be a Millionaire".
Kali All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Jammin Jungle All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Dino-Rama All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Everest All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Nemo Show All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.

Many good things but mostly attributable to the formation of Disney's Animal Kingdom. Many others were new but not necessarily an improvement. Others were good additions and worthy of note. I will agree that sometimes Disney is a victim of timing more then anything. It is true that Disney was adding things while Uni was doing nothing and we don't give Disney credit for that. However, that was then and this is now and the mentality of this country is "what have you done for me lately?"
 
Last edited:

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
That's it....gloves coming off.......Dude I have read your post ......EVERY single post....even the few that actually contribute to the conversation and all end with a snide remark in it. Dosnt matter where or what subject it is on. You always have some smart comment to make. You complain about other peoples opinion ( queue: people who say I am complaining about people complaining) and rarely contribute anything meaningful other then a snarky attitude. Why? If it pains you so much about the comments/attitudes of the members on this site....why put yourself through it? Do you honestly think your approach is somehow going to change these attitudes?

There are literally a hundred threads on this site that has nothing but pixie dust sprinkled through them. Why Not
visit one of them....you will be happier and so will we. It just gets tiresome. Obviously you seemed to be weary also. Mad Hatter has some lovely threads I am sure that are more suitable for your taste.

There I said my piece.......how's your mom?
Relax, this is what people like him want.. to get a rise out of people... it feeds him... you know who not to feed....
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Let's do a quick check here and see just what was gained by that. I'll just put OK, if it was somewhat positive.

All Star Movies OK, I guess...have never seen the inside.
Animal Kingdom Lodge OK
Pop Century OK, if you like paying 3 star prices for a one star accommodation
A bunch of DVCs (Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Saratoga, Animal Kingdom, Bay Lake Tower) Good for Disney, I'm not sure if there is a measurable value to regular park guests.
Winnie the Pooh OK, I won't argue that it replaced Toad, so boo! Toad was worse then Pooh.
Magic Carpets Yup, people came from miles around for that standard carnival spinner.
PhilharMagic OK, I've seen better higher quality things, but passable.
Wishes and its holiday versions If you have seen one exploding rocket show, you've seen them all.
Stitch Right!
MILF Not bad...different, but Timekeeper was better.
MiSiCi I have no idea what that is so can't comment.
Test Track Not terrible but it did replace a very nice dark ride.
Journey Into Imagination with Figment You have got to be kidding!
Reflections of China Nothing changed except a new film.
Mission Space Another good attraction that unfortunately replaced a great dark ride.
Turtle Talk OK
Soarin Very much OK.
The Seas with Nemo Sorry, nothing great there. A projection of cartoons over real animals does not improve or upgrade.
Gran Fiesta Tour Ruined a very nice boat ride, again not an improvement.
Epcot Character Spot Yup, I remember thinking...I can't wait to drive from Vermont because there is a new foam head meet and greet.
Sum of all Thrills Sealed up vomit containment vessel. Not sure if it was sealed up or not, but it should have been.
RnRC OK
One Man's Dream Very OK
LMA OK, not awful.
Midway Mania OK
American Idol Seriously? Not any better then "So you want to be a Millionaire".
Kali All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Jammin Jungle All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Dino-Rama All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Everest All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Nemo Show All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.

Many good things but mostly attributable to the formation of Disney's Animal Kingdom. Many others were new but not necessarily an improvement. Others were good additions and worthy of note. I will agree that sometimes Disney is a victim of timing more then anything. It is true that Disney was adding things while Uni was doing nothing and we don't give Disney credit for that. However, that was then and this is now and the mentality of this country is "what have you done for me lately?"

Not going line by line, but the AK Lodge is a lot better than OK IMhO.

The pendulum is swinging, but its a pendulum, it will probably swing back again at some point.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
Relax, this is what people like him want.. to get a rise out of people... it feeds him... you know who not to feed....

Look...I'm not here to get a rise out of stupid posts by anyone...I'm here to see the latest Disney news and rumors within a Disney fan community....not an anti Disney community

Honestly I have a lot of the same beliefs many of you have about Disney not up to the same standards they use to be and are slow to do anything these days....HOWEVER the doom and gloomers go waaaaay overboard drooling about everything Uni does and thinking they will overtake wdw and as if they will be closing their doors in a few years. Unreal

Disney will do big things for a while and then Uni will do big things and then it'll keep repeating. We all win

I'm not against Uni heck I welcome competition. This can only be a good thing for Disney and especially for us. I'm trying to be realistic here...the more fun either creates the more fun we will all have but the complete anti-Disney anything talk as if they can do no right ever again is ludicrous
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Let's do a quick check here and see just what was gained by that. I'll just put OK, if it was somewhat positive.

All Star Movies OK, I guess...have never seen the inside.
Animal Kingdom Lodge OK
Pop Century OK, if you like paying 3 star prices for a one star accommodation
A bunch of DVCs (Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Saratoga, Animal Kingdom, Bay Lake Tower) Good for Disney, I'm not sure if there is a measurable value to regular park guests.
Winnie the Pooh OK, I won't argue that it replaced Toad, so boo! Toad was worse then Pooh.
Magic Carpets Yup, people came from miles around for that standard carnival spinner.
PhilharMagic OK, I've seen better higher quality things, but passable.
Wishes and its holiday versions If you have seen one exploding rocket show, you've seen them all.
Stitch Right!
MILF Not bad...different, but Timekeeper was better.
MiSiCi I have no idea what that is so can't comment.
Test Track Not terrible but it did replace a very nice dark ride.
Journey Into Imagination with Figment You have got to be kidding!
Reflections of China Nothing changed except a new film.
Mission Space Another good attraction that unfortunately replaced a great dark ride.
Turtle Talk OK
Soarin Very much OK.
The Seas with Nemo Sorry, nothing great there. A projection of cartoons over real animals does not improve or upgrade.
Gran Fiesta Tour Ruined a very nice boat ride, again not an improvement.
Epcot Character Spot Yup, I remember thinking...I can't wait to drive from Vermont because there is a new foam head meet and greet.
Sum of all Thrills Sealed up vomit containment vessel. Not sure if it was sealed up or not, but it should have been.
RnRC OK
One Man's Dream Very OK
LMA OK, not awful.
Midway Mania OK
American Idol Seriously? Not any better then "So you want to be a Millionaire".
Kali All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Jammin Jungle All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Dino-Rama All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Everest All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.
Nemo Show All part of Animal Kingdom and OK.

Many good things but mostly attributable to the formation of Disney's Animal Kingdom. Many others were new but not necessarily an improvement. Others were good additions and worthy of note. I will agree that sometimes Disney is a victim of timing more then anything. It is true that Disney was adding things while Uni was doing nothing and we don't give Disney credit for that. However, that was then and this is now and the mentality of this country is "what have you done for me lately?"
Don't get me wrong. I wish and expect disney to do better than it is doing. I just think some folks here need perspective. Uni is playing catch up. Disney will need to change its ways, but it's not in danger of closing up shop as some here would suggest.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Look...I'm not here to get a rise out of stupid posts by anyone...I'm here to see the latest Disney news and rumors within a Disney fan community....not an anti Disney community

I have a lot of the same beliefs many of you have about Disney not up to the same standards they use to be and are slow to do anything these days....HOWEVER the doom and gloomers go waaaaay overboard drooling about everything Uni does and thinking they will overtake wdw and as if they will be closing their doors in a few years. Unreal

I'm not against Uni heck I welcome competition. This can only be a good thing for Disney and especially for us. I'm trying to be realistic here...the more fun either creates the more fun we will all have
If you want an all-positive Disney community that thinks everything is perfect, then go to another site. Otherwise just check the topics you want and ignore the posts you hate (and if you can't sleep at night knowing that someone has a less than perfect opinion about WDW, we have an actual ignore button). This site lets people tell it like it is, and that's one reason why it's that popular. People here are honest and don't hand out blind praise of a brand that isn't deserved. No one said WDW is closing. But it is conceivable that Universal will eventually overtake them someday if both companies continue down and further promote their current business models. Companies are not invincible and Disney is no exception. We actually know from experience that Disney parks can get worse too, and that it can negatively impact attendance levels.

Competition is a good thing when there's actually a desire to compete. Unfortunately as a WDW guy through and through, even I will admit that Universal clearly has that desire and ability to compete while WDW largely does not. This will bite Disney in the if both companies continue their current business practices, all it will take is time and patience.

Disney can still bounce back from this and adopt the business model they held for decades in the past, but they need to do it now and not later. The longer they keep delaying and continuing failed business practices, the more the tides will continue to shift. And eventually the shoe could very well be on the other foot, with Disney having to work a hard uphill battle to regrow their business' reputation and regain their customer base. If they begin now then it will be far easier than waiting 5-10 years when Universal will have grown their parks exponentially. They still have the ability to easily salvage things and repair their image right now.

And when you get down to it, people are angry and venomous towards Disney because they find it pretty sad to see something they like so much make stupid mistakes that will hurt the parks. It's a fundamental point of ignorance for the blind fans to think that the negativity comes from anything besides a sincere love for WDW and caring about its future. The parks aren't what people hate, it's the idiots running them.

Don't get me wrong. I wish and expect disney to do better than it is doing. I just think some folks here need perspective. Uni is playing catch up. Disney will need to change its ways, but it's not in danger of closing up shop as some here would suggest.
Where did anyone say WDW was going to close?
 
Last edited:

Tim Lohr

Well-Known Member
Nostalgia is powerful, but it can only take you so far.

I have to disagree with your implication that some day the Disney films and attractions that have been popular since the 1930's will some day just cease to draw a crowd. I think people will always want to come and see the Disney stuff because it's practically an American tradition, but I think that the Transforms will eventually lose their appeal like Back to the Future did, at which point Uni will have to replace it.

That's the difference in the business models, Disney coasts by on their legacy because they have a legacy to coast on, Universal, like all other amusement parks, has to constantly generate hype in order to survive. To me the Disney Company is like the Coca-Cola Company, they both created an "original" product that become a part of the American popular culture, and Universal is like Pepsi, they are the "imitators", they will always be no.2 in the public's mind
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I have to disagree with your implication that some day the Disney films and attractions that have been popular since the 1930's will some day just cease to draw a crowd. I think people will always want to come and see the Disney stuff because it's practically an American tradition, but I think that the Transforms will eventually lose their appeal like Back to the Future did, at which point Uni will have to replace it.

That's the difference in the business models, Disney coasts by on their legacy because they have a legacy to coast on, Universal, like all other amusement parks, has to constantly generate hype in order to survive. To me the Disney Company is like the Coca-Cola Company, they both created an "original" product that become a part of the American popular culture, and Universal is like Pepsi, they are the "imitators", they will always be no.2 in the public's mind
I think if Coke actually became nasty to drink, then people who grew up with the stuff for decades loving it would gladly switch over to Pepsi rather than continue to drink garbage. That largely what WDW's danger is, arguably has been happening for the past couple of decades in fact. Coke still tastes good to people and that's why they still drink it. You're overestimating the brand and underestimating the actual substance and content.

You can always contaminate a brand and make it unpleasant for people to experience even if they loved it originally. And on the flipside, people can be attracted to a different brand when quality is built up over time and ingrained in people's heads. People are shaped into enjoying something by the content, they aren't drawn in automatically without being molded to enjoy something from decades of pleasant experiences.

For every bad theme park experience Disney creates, it will turn another group of people off of the company. And for every good park experience Universal creates, it will attract more and more people to that side. It takes time, but it does happen.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
With the lack of new attractions no tbeing built, I don't think Disney is worried about it. For all we know, they could put the parks up for sale.

I' ve been one of the posters who have been theorizing about P&R being offered for sale, However the latest investors call kind of makes me think its at least being talked about.

In the face of UNI devoting a minimum CAPEX of 500 Million annually for new attractions, Rasulo said that they would be SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCING CAPEX in P&R and reducing hiring for same. A) he's smoking something that is damn good, B) He's completely out of touch with reality, C) They are preparing to jettison P&R,

The Blue Ocean may sound good in theory, but the sharks are circling and they want to turn the ocean red
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Just by looking at Google Maps, you can see that it's physically impossible for Universal to continue to grow. They were much too hesitant to acquire enough of a footprint early on. I'm always amazed at how close Potter is to a school athletic field just over the fence.

Orlando's hurting, A few million for currently underwater properties goes a long way towards cleaning up balance sheets, And UNI has let the world know they have money and are willing to spend it
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I think until Disney fully realizes My Disney Experience and MyMagic+ it's going to be slow on purpose. I think Disney is trying to get their act together as an operation. How do they operate what they currently have (significantly more than Universal) and how they operate the best where no one can touch them.
Once they have an operation that makes guests and cast members happy (and believe me..they'll figure it out and make it happen) then they can start to open new projects left and right.
New attractions + better operation for guests = competition.

Disney didn't get this far by being stupid. They're innovators and if you don't understand what they're doing right now because they don't have cranes everywhere like Universal well then you're exactly where they want you. For years Disney has been at the front of speculation and people trying to figure out what secrets Disney is keeping and now they can work on things and nobody is trying to figure them out thanks to the distraction that is Universal.

Just wait- once Disney has MyMagic+ down. It'll be go time.


You mean GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TIME, I have lots of DVC points and next year while I will stay in a DVC resort I will not be going to the Disney parks. And since the market for points is through the roof I'm thinking of selling mine while the getting is good.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Don't get me wrong. I wish and expect disney to do better than it is doing. I just think some folks here need perspective. Uni is playing catch up. Disney will need to change its ways, but it's not in danger of closing up shop as some here would suggest.


I believe that people said the same things about Kodak, Which proceeded to dump popular products and services and leave whole businesses high and dry when they would drop products at a whim, Kodak is nothing but a bankrupt shell while the also ran Fuji is triumphant AND STILL SELLS FILM!!! and chemical photography products which the geniuses at Kodak said there was 'no future for'

Disney invented the modern theme park, Kodak basically invented modern photography, Kodak thought they were invincible - now they are gone, Disney thinks it's invincible they will be gone soon too.

just as an example those picture packages that Disney sells, They are printed on Kodak Dye Sublimation printers, Kodak basically produced 2-3 years supply of materials and said tough noogies, Kodak OWNED this market to the point where there WAS no competition and they just walked away did not even sell the division to someone else just tossed all the tech into a dumpster,

Thousands of event photography businesses and wedding photographers are now scrambing to find a new technology which makes prints which last 50 years, Ink jet only lasts 5 or so.

Management hubris writ large at both companies.
 

gonnichi

Well-Known Member
So it has been said that Universal Studios Orlando attendance has increased by 20 % for most weeks since Transformers opened. I find this quit interesting. That means USO could have attendance levels at 7 to 7.5 million guests for 2013? Once Pottter 2.0 opens along with Cabana Bay resort we will probably see another 20 to 30 % increase at USO. This puts USO attendance numbers very close to AK and DHS doesn't it? If attractions like Jack Sparrow are only added to DHS in the next few years I can see its attendance numbers possibly dropping. Two very different paths indeed.
 
Last edited:

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong. I wish and expect disney to do better than it is doing. I just think some folks here need perspective. Uni is playing catch up. Disney will need to change its ways, but it's not in danger of closing up shop as some here would suggest.
I absolutely agree. My personal experience is not in regards to adding rides at whatever rate it is from experiencing first hand that feeling. That feeling is the one that I had when I first drove on WDW property back in 1983. It was a feeling of vitality and joy. It was a feeling of exhilaration and discovery. It was a feeling of belonging.

When WDW started to close attractions for whatever reason that they had, when they didn't fill them up and it became obvious that it was closed because it "costs" money to operate is when I started to feel the difference. Disney didn't feel like we, the guests, were worth the expenditure, that we would just accept everything however they wanted to present it.

Many moons ago I ran a troubled retail variety store. I was hired fresh out of the service with no experience in retail and my job, I came to find out was to save a sinking ship. I'd look around at 15000 Sq. Ft. of retail floor space that had all the merchandise pulled up to the front edge of the shelf so that it looked full when actually there was hardly anything there. I couldn't save it. I didn't know how. I was hired because I worked cheap. I know what it feels like to watch helplessly as something dies due to incompetent operation.

When I first went to WDW there was no such thing as a closed building, be it a restaurant or attractions unless it was down for remodeling or fixing. Everything was stocked, vibrant and alive. Then all of a sudden these empty locations started to show up. The wonderful thing that was EPCOT was basically gutted to make way for some good, but mostly downgraded, attractions with a park that had no purpose anymore, no mission, no feeling. Then the same thing happened to DHS. Like it or not that feeling also was picked up either consciencely or unconsciencely by the CM's who tried their best to be upbeat and happy, but knew that they were in a place that very strongly resembled a place that was going out due to lack of business. Like the retail store I ran. It looked like it was dying and was being run like it was dying. There was money being made and there was no danger, at that point, that there was any severe problem but a lot of the life was gone. It looked like a park on it's way out with boarded up buildings that they could no longer support.

During that time when it was the best, many of us, me included, made side trips to Uni. I liked the place but it was always a Disney wanna be to me. Then about a year ago I went back to Uni after an absence of about 6 years. Much to my surprise and upset, that feeling that I had when I first entered WDW all those years ago, was at UNI. It looked like a healthy, vibrant, alive happy place. It reflected in the faces of the "Team Members". They were working for a growing, healthy and optimistic place. It was felt by people like me. It made me sad because that was a feeling that I had hoped that I would always have for Disney, but, they downsized. Yes, they were still bigger then Uni, but they were missing the one thing that Uni now had and that was chemistry.

I know that those that have not been making WDW a stop off point for the last 30 years are not going to be able to see that. Even many of those that do have not yet been able to correctly identify what the problem is and feel that maintenance has declined and the property is deteriorating. It's not that at all. The places that are operating are actually in better shape (other then CoP) then it was 30 years ago. But the Magic that was there back then is no longer there. We know it because we lived it. Those that are more recent visitors do not have that basis of comparison and don't understand why some of us are negative.

Yes, Uni is playing catchup but they are also doing something that they weren't doing 3 or 4 years ago and that is impressing people. They are taking Disney's playbook and playing it better at this point. I don't get upset about Disney doing the MM+ project because they needed a technical upgrade, but that is their baby, not the guests. To the guest that whole system is about the same as how a cash register in a grocery store affects them. It's a tool that they use to conduct their business and financial parts. We, as guests, only come in contact with it because we have too. We didn't drive/fly thousand of miles to have the honor of wearing a magic band. We know that, they know that...it's all spin.

I don't fear the possibility that Uni will overtake Disney in size or visitors. If that ever were to happen it will be many years in the making, but, if they want to stay healthy, alive and vibrant they need to get that look and feel back. They need to have people feel it again without knowing that is what they are feeling. They had it locked up once and I really believe that they can get it back, but now they might just have to share it with their neighbor up the road. They may never be the only game in town again. The sooner that they recognize that and take steps to correct it, the stronger they will be in the future, but, as I said before, Mr. Disney has been dead for 46 years now. His coattails have held for a very long time but they won't last forever. Disney is living on a legacy left by a unique individual. They have no one like that currently and sooner or later those coattails are going to fray.
 
Last edited:

Prock3

Member
Uni is not going to build a third gate any time soon for the same reason Disney isn't building a fifth gate anytime soon, there just simply isn't a market for it in orlando at this point and there probably won't be for another 20+ years. If Uni builds a third park it would completely cannibalize the other two parks, more so than a fifth gate would cannibalize disney's remaining 4. Oh not to mention the labor market for theme park employees in the orlando area is already fairly dried up between the 7 parks (9 if you count discovery cove and legoland)

I think the adding 10,000 to 15,000 hotel is a very risky move, the hotel industry in orlando is already quite over saturated and that would be a very difficult amount of rooms to keep occupied. One reason Disney can keep their rooms mostly occupied even in the slowest season is from the huge, and quite lucrative convention/ conference market that they have a very firm grasp on. As former Chicago mayor Daley said regarding Chicagos struggling status as a major convention/ conference hoster "Its hard to beat the mouse"

Over expansion can be every bit as bad and even worse as sitting idle. And while UNI would never have to worry about that if they continue to improve their current offerings, when they start adding a third gate, and 15,000 hotel rooms they might be stretching themselves a little thin, which some could say is the situation that WDW currently finds itself in.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom