Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[LittleBuford]

I just got out of seeing Snow White. I’ll leave a longer post about it in the spoiler thread, but some immediate thoughts about it in response to some of what’s been posted here.

Overall, I enjoyed it. Zegler was very good and Gadot, despite the criticisms that have been voiced of her acting, did a fine job overall. I thought the original songs were excellent. The film was at its strongest when it did its own thing; there was a certain tension between these more original aspects and those that hewed closer to the source material, I suspect because of all the revisions that the project went through.

The messaging of the film is really very traditional: tyranny is bad, and benevolent monarchy is good, a trope that has been repeated time and again in Disney films. We also have a proper baddie in the form of the Evil Queen and a classic love story between a pretty girl and a handsome young man (Jonathan made my heart flutter, too). Contrary to my expectations, female empowerment is not really present as a theme (Snow White’s gender is barely commented on).

It should be clear from what I’ve written so far that this is the furthest thing from how some have characterised it here. There is no propaganda, there is no communism. This is most definitely a family film in the classic mould—not necessarily the best thing in terms of quality, but “safe”, traditional entertainment that is very unlikely to raise any parental hackles. The only thing I found remotely questionable from a child-friendly perspective was the inclusion of the words “where the sun don’t shine” in one of the songs. But other than that, this is one of the most traditional films Disney has come out with in years. It’s ironic, then, that those most loudly denouncing it as woke propaganda are the very people who would most approve of it were they actually to see it.

I thought it was miles better than the Lion King remake and more enjoyable than Moana 2. Its dreadful box-office performance (I was the only person at the screening I attended) is not a fair indicator of its quality.

 

[Agent H]

I just got out of seeing Snow White. I’ll leave a longer post about it in the spoiler thread, but some immediate thoughts about it in response to some of what’s been posted here.

Overall, I enjoyed it. Zegler was very good and Gadot, despite the criticisms that have been voiced of her acting, did a fine job overall. I thought the original songs were excellent. The film was at its strongest when it did its own thing; there was a certain tension between these more original aspects and those that hewed closer to the source material, I suspect because of all the revisions that the project went through.

The messaging of the film is really very traditional: tyranny is bad, and benevolent monarchy is good, a trope that has been repeated time and again in Disney films. We also have a proper baddie in the form of the Evil Queen and a classic love story between a pretty girl and a handsome young man (Jonathan made my heart flutter, too). Contrary to my expectations, female empowerment is not really present as a theme (Snow White’s gender is barely commented on).

It should be clear from what I’ve written so far that this is the furthest thing from how some have characterised it here. There is no propaganda, there is no communism. This is most definitely a family film in the classic mould—not necessarily the best thing in terms of quality, but “safe”, traditional entertainment that is very unlikely to raise any parental hackles. The only thing I found remotely questionable from a children-friendly perspective was the inclusion of the words “where the sun don’t shine” in one of the songs. But other than that, this is one of the most traditional films Disney has come out with in years. It’s ironic, then, that those most loudly denouncing it as woke propaganda are the very people who would most approve of it were they actually to see it.

I thought it was miles better than the Lion King remake and more enjoyable than Moana 2. Its dreadful box-office performance (I was the only person at the screening I attended) is not a fair indicator of its quality.

All of this pretty much tracks with what I’ve inferred from the trailers. Perfectly fine movie. Seeing zelglers performance is the thing I’m looking forward to the most. I don’t like the way the cgi dwarfs look.

 

[LittleBuford]

All of this pretty much tracks with what I’ve inferred from the trailers. Perfectly fine movie. Seeing zelglers performance is the thing I’m looking forward to the most. I don’t like the way the cgi dwarfs look.

They weren’t quite as bad in the context of the film. I’ll have more to say about that in the other thread.

 

[TP2000]

I thought it was miles better than the Lion King remake and more enjoyable than Moana 2. Its dreadful box-office performance (I was the only person at the screening I attended) is not a fair indicator of its quality.

If it's actually a good movie, or even just passable, then that's a shame the controversies caused by Miss Zegler seemed to have doomed it over a year ago.

What do you think caused it to flop at the box office, with global audiences mostly staying away? A laundry list of mistakes and missteps beyond Miss Zegler; Peter Dinklage, CGI Dwarves, rewrites and delays, story straying from the original? Or was it mainly just the Zegler controversies (plural, don't forget)?

 

[LittleBuford]

I’ll also remind folks that Zegler’s comments were not fringe beliefs or support for terrorism. Agree or disagree, they were completely within the mainstream of contemporary discourse. In fact, many Disney employed celebrities made similar statements that passed largely without notice. Zegler’s comments exploded because she was already the object of a hate campaign.

It was, however, unwise of her to post such a sentiment in that particular thread. People were bound to understand it as problematic swipe at Gadot. I myself can’t help suspecting it was.

 

[Disney Irish]

Let me put this in terms more relatable to us average people, and more palatable because it vilifies the T man, if his tariffs and controversies cause a 5% drop in US tourism will that affect jobs?

You are arguing a 5% drop at Disney won’t matter because those CMs will simply go work at Uni, but that ignores the fact Uni will be experiencing the same drop and will also be cutting jobs themselves, they can’t go to Seaworld because Seaworld will be experienceing the same drop and cutting 5% themselves. So where do the 5% who lost jobs at Disney, the 5% who lost jobs at Uni, and the 5% who lost jobs at Seaworld go?

If it was only Disney struggling I’d agree with you… but it’s not just Disney, all the studios are in the same boat, as the industry continues to struggle the workers who missed out on a cut Disney project can’t simply go to another job if that job doesn’t exist.

Except that is being overly simplistic about a complex topic, and one I might add shouldn't be had here.

To bring this back to the conversation at hand, I get your point overall. Less theatrical movies = less work. However you gloss over the whole part where Hollywood and the whole movie industry is not going to stop productions just because one movie bombs and they may shift some theatrical movies around. They will still produce content for all mediums whether it be for theatrical, streaming, or linear TV and so those production crews still will get work.

Also the point that Platt's son was trying to make was refuted, because movies bomb all the time, its just the nature of the business. And so the production crews livelihood who worked on this movie is not tied to the success of this specific movie. You want to try and extrapolate that further and say it can cause a domino effect, fine. But he was specifically trying to use what Zegler said and it causing the movie to bomb as it directly affecting the thousands that worked on that production, which is not how productions work.

 

[TP2000]

If it was only Disney struggling I’d agree with you… but it’s not just Disney, all the studios are in the same boat, as the industry continues to struggle the workers who missed out on a cut Disney project can’t simply go to another job if that job doesn’t exist.

The story of LA's faltering economy didn't happen overnight either, it's been building since Covid with massive shutdown orders closing businesses that stretched well into 2021. The comparatively high unemployment rate in LA County is also causing huge budget shortfalls countywide and region-wide.

The city of LA currently has a $1 Billion budget deficit, after years and years of notoriously bad city management. The city of LA now wants a $2 Billion bailout from California in '25, except California currently has a $68 Billion budget deficit. Can you imagine?!

It would behoove every truck driver and hairdresser and audio tech and waitress in LA to have big studios like Disney making money off of their mega-budget blockbusters. But instead of making profits for future economic growth in SoCal, Snow White is now on track to vaporize around $200 Million in cash. Poof!

How Los Angeles' $1 billion budget deficit could impact Angelenos

Small and big changes are likely to come, impacting the lives of every day Angelenos.

www.nbclosangeles.com

 

[LittleBuford]

What do you think caused it to flop at the box office, with global audiences mostly staying away? A laundry list of mistakes and missteps beyond Miss Zegler; Peter Dinklage, CGI Dwarves, rewrites and delays, story straying from the original? Or was it mainly just the Zegler controversies (plural, don't forget)?

I am not going to pretend that I know the answer to your question. I have already said multiple times that I doubt the controversies that have been discussed ad infinitum here were the sole or even main factor.

 

[TP2000]

I am not going to pretend that I know the answer to your question. I have already said multiple times that I doubt the controversies that have been discussed ad infinitum here were the sole or even main factor.

Well, something happened to doom this movie.

Even before the year long delay in '24 for major rewrites (and apparently CGI dwarves being shoehorned in post-production), they had budgeted it with $270 Million through '23 just for production. You would think they'd get smarter about the overall brand when you're dealing with that kind of money, but apparently that's not the case in 2020's Hollywood. How they got into that horrible budget vs. box office position is beyond me, but I think Disney execs deserve just as much blame in the pre-production as Miss Zegler deserves for her ill-advised Social Media campaign in post-production.

This one was a real mess, even without Miss Zegler. Again, let's hope this was the last piece of early 2020's garbage to be belched out of the pipes in Burbank, and they'll return to running a tighter ship more in tune with their core audience of American families.

 

[LittleBuford]

Again, let's hope this was the last piece of early 2020's garbage to be belched out of the pipes in Burbank, and they'll return to running a tighter ship more in tune with their core audience of American families.

As I said, this is an eminently traditional film that includes nothing remotely objectionable to the “core audience of American families”—nothing queer, nothing feminist, nothing subversive. Having not seen it yourself, on what possible basis are you suggesting otherwise?

 

[DKampy]

It is a shame about Snow White…. Why can’t every film Disney produces become a Blockbuster…. Like every other studio is able to do….

 

[TP2000]

As I said, this is an eminently traditional film that includes nothing remotely objectionable to the “core audience of American families”—nothing queer, nothing feminist, nothing subversive. Having not seen it yourself, on what possible basis are you suggesting otherwise?

Mostly the comments from Rachel Zegler and Gal Gadot. Stuff like...

"The original movie was made in 1937, and very evidently so... (insert smirky-smug Gen Z facial gestures)"
"She's not going to be saved by the Prince!"
"She's not going to be dreaming about true love, she's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be."
"And the Prince literally stalks her... weird, weird... (insert more smirky-smug Gen Z facial gestures)"

In both actresses defense, I think a lot of those early comments (and there were more) about the movie were based on vetted and approved Talking Points from Disney's PR group. But they weren't wise, and would have eventually landed poorly even without the cringey and unlikable smirky-smug shtick from Miss Zegler. The Disney execs that approved this concept rethinking and changing Snow White deserve a lot of the blame, in my opinion.

Then throughout 2023 and 2024 Miss Zegler was, well, Miss Zegler, and the rest is history.

 

[TP2000]

It is a shame about Snow White…. Why can’t every film Disney produces become a Blockbuster…. Like every other studio is able to do….

Every film can't be a blockbuster. But a big studio should be able to get a majority of its movies to at least break even.

And when you are spending north of $300 Million to remake the famous icon movie that created your studio in the first place, you can't screw that one up. You need to be better than what Burbank is doing now. The company depends on it.

Heck, even this young 21st century theme park waiter owes his job to that princess named Snow White.

 

[Tha Realest]

Except that is being overly simplistic about a complex topic, and one I might add shouldn't be had here.

To bring this back to the conversation at hand, I get your point overall. Less theatrical movies = less work. However you gloss over the whole part where Hollywood and the whole movie industry is not going to stop productions just because one movie bombs and they may shift some theatrical movies around. They will still produce content for all mediums whether it be for theatrical, streaming, or linear TV and so those production crews still will get work.

Not really. The stench of this production forced a recalibration of this film, as well as Disney’s entire “live action” adaptation pipeline. How many more “live action” adaptations are to come in the coming years? The studio’s champion of these films, Sean Bailey, was forced out in 2024:

Also the point that Platt's son was trying to make was refuted, because movies bomb all the time, its just the nature of the business. And so the production crews livelihood who worked on this movie is not tied to the success of this specific movie. You want to try and extrapolate that further and say it can cause a domino effect, fine. But he was specifically trying to use what Zegler said and it causing the movie to bomb as it directly affecting the thousands that worked on that production, which is not how productions work.

 

[Disney Irish]

Mostly the comments from Rachel Zegler and Gal Gadot. Stuff like...

"The original movie was made in 1937, and very evidently so... (insert smirky-smug Gen Z facial gestures)"
"She's not going to be saved by the Prince!"
"She's not going to be dreaming about true love, she's dreaming about becoming the leader she knows she can be."
"And the Prince literally stalks her... weird, weird... (insert more smirky-smug Gen Z facial gestures)"

In both actresses defense, I think a lot of those early comments (and there were more) about the movie were based on vetted and approved Talking Points from Disney's PR group. But they weren't wise, and would have eventually landed poorly even without the cringey and unlikable smirky-smug shtick from Miss Zegler.

Then throughout 2023 and 2024 Miss Zegler was, well, Miss Zegler, and the rest is history.

As if you don't make smug faces whenever you post here pontificating on the latest box office brouhaha.

 

[Agent H]

Every film can't be a blockbuster. But a big studio should be able to get a majority of its movies to at least break even.

And when you are spending north of $300 Million to remake the famous icon movie that created your studio in the first place, you can't screw that one up. You need to be better than what Burbank is doing now.

Well good news. They have only released 2 films this year and only one is a flop. So there’s plenty of time for them to have a big hit or two or 3.

 

[Agent H]

Not really. The stench of this production forced a recalibration of this film, as well as Disney’s entire “live action” adaptation pipeline. How many more “live action” adaptations are to come in the coming years? The studio’s champion of these films, Sean Bailey, was forced out in 2024:

View attachment 850342

Currently there’s only 3 still in active production. Hercules Moana and tangled.

 

[TP2000]

As if you don't make smug faces whenever you post here pontificating on the latest box office brouhaha.

But I do it with authority and a bit of style. With a distinguished yet kind looking face.

 

[Disney Irish]

Not really. The stench of this production forced a recalibration of this film, as well as Disney’s entire “live action” adaptation pipeline. How many more “live action” adaptations are to come in the coming years? The studio’s champion of these films, Sean Bailey, was forced out in 2024:

View attachment 850342

I'm sorry I don't see what this has to do with what I posted. Also he stepped down a fully 13 months before this movie was released. So how does that have anything to do directly with this movie bombing at the box office in 2025 or the comments by Platt's son and it directly affecting the livelihoods of the films production crew?

I fail to see the point here.

 

[Farerb]

It was obvious that the live action remakes would damage Disney's brand eventually, just like the Cheap DTV sequels did, but Bob Iger is greedy and started repeating Eisner's mistakes in his last years as CEO.

“History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes”

Unfortunately Roy Disney isn't around this time to save the company again.