Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[erasure fan1]

Typically that turnaround requires a change in the coaching staff or the players, something Disney hasn’t done yet.

Same management team, same creative team… I was reading an article about the new Star Wars Rey film yesterday and it sounds like the intention is to keep doing exactly what they did last year, the message and empowerment is the priority, not the story… if they don’t change anything why would anyone expect them to have different results?

Ding ding ding! You are correct. What is really going to change with all the same people? Could things change? Sure, never say never I guess. Is it probable? I'd say most likely not.

Funny you mention Star Wars, Fandom just put out their 2023 list of top film franchises, guess which one tops the list even though it hasn't released a film in almost 5 years..

Maybe people still like star wars, but just don't like the people making it? All that really says is what I've been saying for a while now. Star wars isn't something that can't come back. Mando and baby Yoda proved that already. Same thing with Disney. There is lifetimes of nostalgia built up with these things. I might not agree with how either Disney or Lucasfilm runs things right now. But I would also say star wars is my number one franchise, and Disney is right there at the top as well from a fandom perspective.

 

[Disney Irish]

Maybe people still like star wars, but just don't like the people making it? All that really says is what I've been saying for a while now. Star wars isn't something that can't come back. Mando and baby Yoda proved that already. Same thing with Disney. There is lifetimes of nostalgia built up with these things. I might not agree with how either Disney or Lucasfilm runs things right now. But I would also say star wars is my number one franchise, and Disney is right there at the top as well from a fandom perspective.

Or maybe things aren't as dire with the fans once you get outside the various echo chambers of the internet.

As stated by Fandom themselves -

"Star Wars’ No.1 ranking suggests that Disney’s revitalization of the brand, which took a hit in the wake of a sequel trilogy for the films, is working. Disney appears at No. 2 on the list, representing its animated films, and its Marvel and Avatar franchises also make the cut."

 

[Disstevefan1]

It seems we should change the title of this thread.

It shouldn't be "Disney At The Box Office..."

Instead it should be "Disney At The Box Office After Tax Subsidies, Disney+ Inter-Department Payments, and Future DVD & PVOD Sales..."

It's a bit wordy, but that may help some folks here feel better about the box office results.

 

[ABQ]

It seems we should change the title of this thread.

It shouldn't be "Disney At The Box Office..."

Instead it should be "Disney At The Box Office After Tax Subsidies, Disney+ Inter-Department Payments, and Future DVD & PVOD Sales..."

It's a bit wordy, but that may help some folks here feel better about the box office results.

I have a tough enough time understanding EBITDAR and EBITDARM on a revenue statement, now you want to add ATSD+IDPFDVDPVOD ?

 

[TP2000]

I have a tough enough time understanding EBITDAR and EBITDARM on a revenue statement, now you want to add ATSD+IDPFDVDPVOD ?

Sorry.

But in my mind, things in Burbank are run much simpler. For instance, I like to imagine that the $100 Million payment that the money-losing Disney+ division gave to the money-losing Walt Disney Pictures division for The Little Mermaid in 2023 was just a paper check sent via Interoffice mail.

Can you imagine how happy Alan Bergman was when this landed on his desk?! Mermaid just broke even!

 

[Disstevefan1]

Sorry.

But in my mind, things in Burbank are run much simpler. For instance, I like to imagine that the $100 Million payment that the money-losing Disney+ division gave to the money-losing Walt Disney Pictures division for The Little Mermaid in 2023 was just a paper check sent via Interoffice mail.

Can you imagine how happy Alan Bergman was when this landed on his desk?! Mermaid just broke even!

View attachment 761322

T r O p H y

 

[BrianLo]

The box office this year is and was bad for Disney. But we're having trouble actually sticking to that topic every time someone swings around to the company being in a 1.2 billion deficit and needing to shutter the studios. Those statements are highly purposefully misleading.

The company is not happy. The box office as a revenue source was wildly underperforming for many (though not all) pictures this year. But the company's actual profitability is also not "the box office".

Maybe we can keep that straight moving forward? Or just double down and repeat this charade a week from now.

What happens next in my eyes is the company has some creative changes (some of which above board on a surface level were implied to be changed by Iger on his return). Some of it is production costs. Some of it is going to be reduction in theatrical output. Some of it will be less original content (unfortunately). Some of it will be doubling down on streaming.

Finally, inevitably, some of it is going to be the company leaning less on the box office as a reliable revenue stream to pump out whatever they wanted with disregard.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Finally, inevitably, some of it is going to be the company leaning less on the box office as a reliable revenue stream to pump out whatever they wanted with disregard.

Good post but I really think TWDC does NOT lean on the box office as a reliable revenue stream. They LOVE the art they create. They create and release their art and in their view, release = success.

Nor do they purposely put out money losing movies. They simply release movies that cost more to make and market then they bring in.

The world outside TWDC still look at the box office as the only measuring stick like it was in the old days when the theater was THE ONLY way to see a film.

The problem for Disney the box office will continue to be used as the one and only measuring stick by everyone outside TWDC.

 

[erasure fan1]

Or maybe things aren't as dire with the fans once you get outside the various echo chambers of the internet.

They were dire enough to cancel all star wars theatrical for what will end up being at least 6yrs. That's pretty dire for a company that wanted to work up to multiple films a year. That said my point was that star wars wasn't/isn't as damaged as the "echo chamber" sites like to make it out. A lot of people say it's dead, it can't come back... That's just not true. Once the clown show is gone from lucasfilm and Disney, star wars will be fine.

 

[Disney Irish]

They were dire enough to cancel all star wars theatrical for what will end up being at least 6yrs. That's pretty dire for a company that wanted to work up to multiple films a year. That said my point was that star wars wasn't/isn't as damaged as the "echo chamber" sites like to make it out. A lot of people say it's dead, it can't come back... That's just not true. Once the clown show is gone from lucasfilm and Disney, star wars will be fine.

Actually its not that dire in my opinion. There is a difference between cutting ALL Star Wars content because the "brand is damage" as the echo chamber claims and scaling back to trickle so it becomes an event again. And that is with the same leadership at LFL. So with what is being put out its enough to keep fans engaged and hyped enough until they can put out a new theatrical release, which will be an event in my opinion.

The same with other Disney IP, such as Marvel. They aren't cutting ALL Marvel, they are just scaling back so it becomes an event again.

Disney is very good at creating the scarcity in their products.

 

[Disstevefan1]

They were dire enough to cancel all star wars theatrical for what will end up being at least 6yrs. That's pretty dire for a company that wanted to work up to multiple films a year. That said my point was that star wars wasn't/isn't as damaged as the "echo chamber" sites like to make it out. A lot of people say it's dead, it can't come back... That's just not true. Once the clown show is gone from lucasfilm and Disney, star wars will be fine.

I agree with stopping Star Wars releases for a while.

"Make Star Wars movies an event again"

 

[Tony the Tigger]

You are off on this one if you think a studio is alright losing money. There is 0 chance you could find a major record label who would proudly tout the success of financing the #6 song on the charts for the year while losing money on it. You wouldn't find a movie studio doing that either.

It’s almost as if people can’t understand the difference between chart success vs. profitability.

Chart success is undeniable, period, the end.

No matter how badly folks might want to crow that Disney has failed (especially for being - gasp - inclusive (!) there is that pesky chart position. Much like awards, they are permanent.

And I guarantee you the record label would not only tout the #6 song of the year as a success, but put money behind the follow-up, and have the artist write and produce for others.

The song, much like the movie, will continue making money long after their initial showings.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

 

[Disstevefan1]

It’s almost as if people can’t understand the difference between chart success vs. profitability.

Chart success is undeniable, period, the end.

No matter how badly folks might want to crow that Disney has failed (especially for being - gasp - inclusive (!) there is that pesky chart position. Much like awards, they are permanent.

And I guarantee you the record label would not only tout the #6 song of the year as a success, but put money behind the follow-up, and have the artist write and produce for others.

The song, much like the movie, will continue making money long after their initial showings.

Oh, I know this one -
Chart success - Fake, deceptive, unsustainable.
Profitability - Real, clear, sustainable.

 

[erasure fan1]

Actually its not that dire in my opinion. There is a difference between cutting ALL Star Wars content because the "brand is damage" as the echo chamber claims and scaling back to trickle so it becomes an event again.

You're correct, there is a difference. I just don't think that's what happened here. They announced TWELVE movies at least. It's been so many canceled I lost count. They had zero intention of slowing down to make star wars an event again, and the brand damage is what caused the cancellations. I still have my doubts about the Rey, Dawn of the Jedi and mandoverse films, but I guess we'll see.

So with what is being put out its enough to keep fans engaged and hyped enough until they can put out a new theatrical release, which will be an event in my opinion.

The only one of the 3 films I mentioned above that could be an event is the dawn of the jedi. A Rey film won't do particularly well in my opinion, not this soon anyway. And the Mando film I don't see being an event either. Because if the marvels has taught us anything, people don't want D+ homework. The dawn of the Jedi could work. It would be a surprise if they don't shift Mangold off the project though.

All that said, I still don't think the brand is dead or unsalvageable. But the damage is real weather you want to believe it or not. Solo doesn't crash as hard as it did if there wasn't a problem. Even with Dave at the helm, Kennedy is still in charge and I see a very large portion of the fanbase not giving her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Phroobar]

You're correct, there is a difference. I just don't think that's what happened here. They announced TWELVE movies at least. It's been so many canceled I lost count. They had zero intention of slowing down to make star wars an event again, and the brand damage is what caused the cancellations. I still have my doubts about the Rey, Dawn of the Jedi and mandoverse films, but I guess we'll see.

The only one of the 3 films I mentioned above that could be an event is the dawn of the jedi. A Rey film won't do particularly well in my opinion, not this soon anyway. And the Mando film I don't see being an event either. Because if the marvels has taught us anything, people don't want D+ homework. The dawn of the Jedi could work. It would be a surprise if they don't shift Mangold off the project though.

All that said, I still don't think the brand is dead or unsalvageable. But the damage is real weather you want to believe it or not. Solo doesn't crash as hard as it did if there wasn't a problem. Even with Dave at the helm, Kennedy is still in charge and I see a very large portion of the fanbase not giving her the benefit of the doubt.

The last time Dave Filoni directed a Star Wars movie it crashed and burned. It was the lowest money maker since before Solo. Granted that movie was the first four episodes of the Clone Wars. People though the characters looked like the Thunderbirds marionettes.

A Rey movie will bring back PTSD in the fans so bad idea there.

An unattached original High Republic movie could be the fresh start we all need.

 

[Willmark]

You're correct, there is a difference. I just don't think that's what happened here. They announced TWELVE movies at least. It's been so many canceled I lost count. They had zero intention of slowing down to make star wars an event again, and the brand damage is what caused the cancellations. I still have my doubts about the Rey, Dawn of the Jedi and mandoverse films, but I guess we'll see.

The only one of the 3 films I mentioned above that could be an event is the dawn of the jedi. A Rey film won't do particularly well in my opinion, not this soon anyway. And the Mando film I don't see being an event either. Because if the marvels has taught us anything, people don't want D+ homework. The dawn of the Jedi could work. It would be a surprise if they don't shift Mangold off the project though.

I agree this likely has the best potential of what has been announced. I'm at least intrigued by it, it's just that I'm not sure how much. Rey is an interesting concept to me, but are they picking up from the RoS or TLJ? I say that half joking because half of the fan base isn't going to like it either way.

All that said, I still don't think the brand is dead or unsalvageable. But the damage is real weather you want to believe it or not. \

Agreed. People can deny all they want but the fact that RoS retro-conning TLJ proves that even then the Mouse realized the damage that Rian John son did to the franchise. Fatal? I don't think so. Perhaps maybe? Then again the fans seem to be still riled up with the MCU so who knows.

Add to this Mark Hamil tries to warn fans ahead of time before the Mouse muzzled him. One can only wonder why Rian didn't listen to him during the making of the movie.

Solo doesn't crash as hard as it did if there wasn't a problem. Even with Dave at the helm, Kennedy is still in charge and I see a very large portion of the fanbase not giving her the benefit of the doubt.

I for one am not. Nothing to do with "they ruined my childhood" either. Simply put if Disney doesn't want me as a consumer by giving me (us) sub-par movies they shouldn't be surprised when.. you know...I don't go or take my kids along with me.

 

[Willmark]

The last time Dave Filoni directed a Star Wars movie it crashed and burned. It was the lowest money maker since before Solo. Granted that movie was the first four episodes of the Clone Wars. People though the characters looked like the Thunderbirds marionettes.

A Rey movie will bring back PTSD in the fans so bad idea there.

An unattached original High Republic movie could be the fresh start we all need.

Agreed but it depends on what story are the going to tell?

A story of the Sith vs Jedi on an epic scale? Or are they going to follow the path of the recent movies?

 

[BuddyThomas]

Mexican Actress Ana Ofelia MurguÃa, Voice of âMama Coco,â Dies at 90

Murguía’s death “leaves a huge void on the stages of our country,” Culture Secretary Alejandra Frausto Guerrero said in a statement posted to Instagram.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Disney Irish]

You're correct, there is a difference. I just don't think that's what happened here. They announced TWELVE movies at least. It's been so many canceled I lost count. They had zero intention of slowing down to make star wars an event again, and the brand damage is what caused the cancellations. I still have my doubts about the Rey, Dawn of the Jedi and mandoverse films, but I guess we'll see.

The only one of the 3 films I mentioned above that could be an event is the dawn of the jedi. A Rey film won't do particularly well in my opinion, not this soon anyway. And the Mando film I don't see being an event either. Because if the marvels has taught us anything, people don't want D+ homework. The dawn of the Jedi could work. It would be a surprise if they don't shift Mangold off the project though.

All that said, I still don't think the brand is dead or unsalvageable. But the damage is real weather you want to believe it or not. Solo doesn't crash as hard as it did if there wasn't a problem. Even with Dave at the helm, Kennedy is still in charge and I see a very large portion of the fanbase not giving her the benefit of the doubt.

I honestly don't want to go back and re-litigate the last ~10 years of Disney Star Wars, its a tired discussion. So I'm just going to bow out at this point and just say I appreciate your opinion but I see it differently than you. As the ranking of the franchise doesn't indicate to me the things you believe, as I'm sure it doesn't indicate to you the things I believe. So we all have our opinions, and we're all entitled to them, as we can all interpret the information however we want.