Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[TP2000]

There are several factors why The Marvels did not not work which I’m not going to get into here… my issue here is that you are placing all the blame on Ms. Marvel( at least it appears that way since you keep brining it up) and it feels icky… especially someone who has not watched any of it

I apologize if I sounded like Ms. Marvel deserved all of the blame. She does not deserve all of the blame. Maybe only 30%.

I'm not a Marvel fan. I don't read comic books. I rarely go to movies. But like most humans, I can spot cringe a mile away. And this movie seemed cringey.

If it wasn't Ms. Marvel and HR mandated cringe that doomed this movie at the entire global box office, then what was it?

 

[Disney Irish]

You have clearly not been reading my posts accurately. Or you are so entrenched in the idea that anyone who doesn't agree with you is "bad" and "racist" and "all the ists" that you can't understand my point.

No one in 2023 would care that Ms. Marvel isn't a WASP girl. But that she's Pakistani and Muslim and an immigrant (what was so bad about her own country that her parents left?) and that's somehow more important than her morals or personal virtues is fairly off-putting to many of us who care more about the content of ones character than the color of ones skin.

What most people dislike instinctively is the idea that her immutable characteristics that she has no control over are somehow more important than her own talents she has honed with hard work and skill she leveraged to make the world a better place. People, at least most Americans with our inherent USA! culture, naturally admire a character who leverages their own God given talents to make themselves better and make the world a better place. That's always fabulous!

But to lean in so heavily on her ethnicity comes off as creepy and weird to many folks, myself included. No one cares what country your grandparents came from to get to America, the greatest nation on earth made up entirely of immigrants. What we care about is what you did once you got here and how you made the world a better place with hard work and leveraging your innate talents.

So many assumptions being made.....

Ms. Marvel, aka Kamala Khan, is an American born Pakistani from New Jersey. She is not an immigrant being born and raised in Jersey City, but she comes from an immigrant family who fled India during Partition (which was very common at the time due to religious persecution a very common American theme). And just like most 1st generation Americans are torn between her family/community/traditions and American culture which she is all for. She is a 16 year old fan girl of the Avengers specifically Captain Marvel, which if you followed the MCU the team was built around being rah rah American.

Partition and her Pakistani heritage is an important part of the characteristics of her gaining her powers, but not the primary focus. Its her leaning into the American culture and being a fan girl of the Avengers that allows her leverage her talents to gain control over her powers.

So while it touches on the struggles of immigrant families it is steeped in the values and morals that you claim you're all about.

As for why the show had low ratings, its was one of several D+ shows to introduce new character that not many were familiar with, so they weren't invested. Moon Knight was also released around the same time and was also similarly rated I believe. If you look at the shows with higher ratings they are the shows with familiar characters. However I would say that D+ is exactly the place to introduce new characters, but that is a different conversation.

 

[TP2000]

So many assumptions being made.....

Ms. Marvel, aka Kamala Khan, is an American born Pakistani from New Jersey. She is not an immigrant being born and raised in Jersey City, but she comes from an immigrant family who fled India during Partition (which was very common at the time due to religious persecution a very common American theme). And just like most 1st generation Americans are torn between her family/community/traditions and American culture which she is all for. She is a 16 year old fan girl of the Avengers specifically Captain Marvel, which if you followed the MCU the team was built around being rah rah American.

Partition and her Pakistani heritage is an important part of the characteristics of her gaining her powers, but not the primary focus. Its her leaning into the American culture and being a fan girl of the Avengers that allows her leverage her talents to gain control over her powers.

So while it touches on the struggles of immigrant families it is steeped in the values and morals that you claim you're all about.

Perfection.

And 19 year old guys who (used to) go to Marvel movies with their buddies would care about this why?

 

[Disney Irish]

Perfection.

And 19 year old guys who go to Marvel movies with their buddies would care about this why?

Not sure what that has anything to do with my post about your incorrect assumptions. But I suspect you're trying to direct this into a circular conversation.

I don't speak for 19 yr old guys.

 

[TP2000]

Not sure what that has anything to do with my post about your incorrect assumptions. But I suspect you're trying to direct this into a circular conversation.

I'm trying to direct it into a conversation about the thread's topic; Disney At The Box Office.

The Marvels has failed at the global box office. That's a problem. The question is why it failed.

Your explanation of Ms. Marvel's backstory about "Partition" whatever that is (I suspect it has something to do with the post-war separation of Pakistan and India, but who knows), and her struggles with being a part of a tiny minority immigrant community in a new country may be a good topic for a PBS documentary.

But that story obviously didn't sell many tickets to Disney's latest $275 Million tentpole Marvel movie. And that's a problem.

 

[LittleBuford]

There’s no productive exchange to be had with someone who speaks with feigned authority on something he has absolutely no firsthand knowledge of. Some of us have allowed ourselves to get stuck in a silly cycle of pseudo-discussion; it’s best we stop contributing to the problem.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm trying to direct it into a conversation about the thread's topic; Disney At The Box Office.

The Marvels has failed at the global box office. That's a problem. The question is why it failed.

Your explanation of Ms. Marvel's backstory about "Partitition" whatever that is (I suspect it has something to do with the post-war separation of Pakistan and India, but who knows), and her struggles with being a part of a tiny minority immigrant community in a new country may be a good topic for a PBS documentary. I might even watch that documentary some evening.

But that story obviously didn't sell many tickets to Disney's latest $275 Million tentpole Marvel movie. And that's a problem.

Her backstory isn't really part of the movie, that was the D+ series. Other than her immediate family being there and some quick exposition, there isn't really mention of her backstory in the movie. In fact I would say that even if you hadn't seen Ms Marvel on D+ you would still have understood the whole premise of her character.

As for why the movie disappointed opening weekend, we'll never know the real answer only opinions. So you can keep asking and going into a circular conversation but it'll never be answered.

 

[Casper Gutman]

No one in 2023 would care that Ms. Marvel isn't a WASP girl. But that she's Pakistani and Muslim and an immigrant (what was so bad about her own country that her parents left?) and that's somehow more important than her morals or personal virtues is fairly off-putting to many of us who care more about the content of ones character than the color of ones skin.

What most people dislike instinctively is the idea that her immutable characteristics that she has no control over are somehow more important than her own talents she has honed with hard work and skill she leveraged to make the world a better place. People, at least most Americans with our inherent USA! culture, naturally admire a character who leverages their own God given talents to make themselves better and make the world a better place. That's always fabulous!

But to lean in so heavily on her ethnicity comes off as creepy and weird to many folks, myself included. No one cares what country your grandparents came from to get to America, the greatest nation on earth made up entirely of immigrants. What we care about is what you did once you got here and how you made the world a better place with hard work and leveraging your innate talents.

I know it’s fruitless, but I just need to highlight again how nonsensical this post is. Not only does it demonstrate once again that the speaker has never seen the character in any media, but it shows a remarkably limited view of what it means to be American and what kind of stories can be told about Americans.

In particular, the line, “But to lean in so heavily on her ethnicity comes off as creepy and weird to many folks, myself included,” reflects so many unexamined assumptions, it’s incredible.

I’m just genuinely a bit baffled - do so many posters not have friends who are second-generation immigrants? Are none second-generation immigrants themselves? Is the concept so alien?

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I’m just genuinely a bit baffled - do so many posters not have friends who are second-generation immigrants? Are none second-generation immigrants themselves? Is the concept so alien?

The question isn't if the concept is alien (it isn't). The relevant question is if the concept is entertaining enough to get people to purchase movie tickets ... because any company that spends $275 million (plus probably at least another $150 million in advertising) to make a film with a concept that isn't entertaining enough to get people to purchase movie tickets so it can make its production budget back (plus a reasonable return on investment) is run by imbeciles.

And I think the over-arching theme of this particular thread is that the persons in charge of films and tv at the Walt Disney Company for the last five years are imbeciles. A lot of people fail up the corporate ladder in this world and Disney is full of them right now.

 

[BlakeW39]

Ms. Marvel is honestly diversity done right. I'm not a huge fan of the character myself (I do not enjoy the whole teenage girl high school drama aspect, nor do I like the fangirl angle the character takes) but she's usually fairly well written, and her existence does not rely on legacy characters being changed or abandoned. All the while serving her purpose as representation for a minority group. All this is a win in my book.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I apologize if I sounded like Ms. Marvel deserved all of the blame. She does not deserve all of the blame. Maybe only 30%.

I'm not a Marvel fan. I don't read comic books. I rarely go to movies. But like most humans, I can spot cringe a mile away. And this movie seemed cringey.

If it wasn't Ms. Marvel and HR mandated cringe that doomed this movie at the entire global box office, then what was it?

Dude, the revival of sex in the city didn't do great either. I guess people are sick of rich white women in cities? World series has some of the lowest ratings too, never again should we base a show in Texas or Phoenix lol.
Your logic on things is skewed by your prejudice.

 

[Chi84]

There’s no productive exchange to be had with someone who speaks with feigned authority on something he has absolutely no firsthand knowledge of. Some of us have allowed ourselves to get stuck in a silly cycle of pseudo-discussion; it’s best we stop contributing to the problem.

You know, I think this is the best idea you’ve ever had!! In fact, since this happens over and over again with pretty much every movie, I would recommend taking it one step further. No one here will miss anything.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

The question isn't if the concept is alien (it isn't). The relevant question is if the concept is entertaining enough to get people to purchase movie tickets ... because any company that spends $275 million (plus probably at least another $150 million in advertising) to make a film with a concept that isn't entertaining enough to get people to purchase movie tickets so it can make its production budget back (plus a reasonable return on investment) is run by imbeciles.

And I think the over-arching theme of this particular thread is that the persons in charge of films and tv at the Walt Disney Company for the last five years are imbeciles. A lot of people fail up the corporate ladder in this world and Disney is full of them right now.

So it’s automatically not entertaining because…Asian woman?

 

[AdventureHasAName]

So it’s automatically not entertaining because…Asian woman?

Your man is made of straw.

 

[TP2000]

There’s no productive exchange to be had with someone who speaks with feigned authority on something he has absolutely no firsthand knowledge of. Some of us have allowed ourselves to get stuck in a silly cycle of pseudo-discussion; it’s best we stop contributing to the problem.

You don't have to have a discussion with me specifically on this discussion board at all. Don't worry, my feelings won't be hurt.

But in a discussion thread titled Disney At The Box Office you should probably discuss box office data.

And The Marvels just bombed badly at the global box office. It will lose at least $100 Million for Disney. Now... discuss!

 

[TP2000]

Speaking of box office, the final accurate numbers for the weekend's box office have come in, including The Marvels opening weekend numbers.

The Marvels was downgraded from their Sunday afternoon estimate of $47 Million, to an actual total of $46,110,859.

 

[TalkingHead]

Marvel Studios Taking Stock of Strategy Amid ‘The Marvels’ Meltdown

Kevin Feige's storied superhero studio and parent company Disney will now release only one superhero pic next year — Shawn Levy and Ryan Reynolds' 'Deadpool 3' — instead of three.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

This quote is rich: “On Nov. 8, Bob Iger said during on an earnings call that Disney’s movie empire has “lost focus” because of an emphasis on quantity over quality in the rush to feed Disney+ under the Bob Chapek regime (though it was Iger himself who initiated this push before Chapek’s reign.)”

 

[Disney Irish]

And for those that keep saying the MCU is dead or dying......

Why the Age of Marvel Is Not Quite Over

After bombing with ‘The Marvels’ and releasing a glut of projects in recent years, there is still hope for the studio to push through the wreckage.

www.hollywoodreporter.com

 

[Disstevefan1]

Speaking of box office, the final accurate numbers for the weekend's box office have come in, including The Marvels opening weekend numbers.

The Marvels was downgraded from their Sunday afternoon estimate of $47 Million, to an actual total of $46,110,859.

View attachment 754141

 

[TP2000]

I’m just genuinely a bit baffled - do so many posters not have friends who are second-generation immigrants? Are none second-generation immigrants themselves? Is the concept so alien?

I just caught this post and I'm trying to think... Who do I know who is a second-generation immigrant, and I'm drawing a blank.

But, I do socialize and am friends with several first-generation immigrants. I've mentioned them before over the years in funny stories over in the Disneyland thread, but they are in no particular order...

• My friend Kim who escaped the Communists as a 10 year old girl in 1975 as Saigon was falling. She, her parents and her siblings all ended up in Westminster, California in '75 and none of them spoke English. She now owns and operates a half dozen franchised nail salons in Orange County and San Diego County. And she's hysterical!
• 
  
• My friends Ghet and Grace who escaped the Communists as young adults in 1975 as Saigon fell. They first went to Vancouver, BC as Grace had been born in Hong Kong (British passport), but they ended up in Seattle by about '76. Ghet attended the University of Washington in a Marine Biology doctorate program, where I met him, and we socialized constantly from the late 70's through the 1980's. I see them only every few years now, but they are grandparents now whose sons are very successful.
• 
  
• What about third-generation? My friend who is married to a prominent heart doctor in Orange County. Her grandparents came to California from Mexico during World War I to work on farms in the Central Valley. She grew up in the working class town of Pico Rivera, California in the 1960's and got a scholarship to UCLA. She met a cute Japanese-American med student on campus, and they got married and are wildly successful now. Fun Fact: She still owns a gorgeously restored 1968 Plymouth Barracuda she bought used in '74 when everyone was selling their gas guzzlers!

What was the point to that question again? That if you don't know second-generation immigrants you won't buy a ticket to The Marvels? Is that why it bombed so badly? It needs first-hand experience with immigration to get it?