Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[DisneyHead123]

I just read that Michael Knowles - literally of The Daily Wire - loves Barbie and praised Greta Gerwig as “genius”.

Maybe it’s overly optimistic, but I do see the Barbie phenomenon as a sign that people are tiring of the endless zero sum culture wars and are open to finding a middle ground. That not every movie has to somehow “belong” to one political party or the other. Different people can relate to different elements of the same movie. I saw part of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles this week - April is now a woman of color and a Pride Month board features prominently at the local school. I haven’t heard any complaints about the movie being “Woke”.

 

[DKampy]

I’m still on record as saying that The Marvels will do fine - I’m predicting around $750-800M worldwide.

My wife is not the biggest Marvel fan in the world… We do go to the theater a lot so we end up watching most as they usually get good to decent reviews… but she is really excited(more than most Marvel)for The Marvels

Sometimes people have blinders on just what they are interested in and don’t think of the extra people a movie might bring in

 

[erasure fan1]

I’m still on record as saying that The Marvels will do fine - I’m predicting around $750-800M worldwide.

Marvel needs to stack some wins for sure. I'm just not sure the Marvels is going to be the film to help. I was a supporter of captain marvel as a film. Although it was a bit unnecessary from a need to see standpoint for endgame, I still enjoyed it. I hope I'm wrong, but I would be surprised if the marvels comes anywhere close to 800mil. Of course I wasn't sure the guardians would resonate with the average movie goer so who knows.

There are 2 characters from D+ shows that didn't have big viewership numbers ,and I'm not sure how big of a draw Larson is. I know she has a big social media following but will they go out and support the film? This movie has the biggest question marks of any post endgame film in my opinion. It can't lean into a huge event film so it will have to stand on its own. I'm just not sure it can based on the mixed reception of phase 4 and 5 so far.

 

[Ghost93]

I just read that Michael Knowles - literally of The Daily Wire - loves Barbie and praised Greta Gerwig as “genius”.

Maybe it’s overly optimistic, but I do see the Barbie phenomenon as a sign that people are tiring of the endless zero sum culture wars and are open to finding a middle ground. That not every movie has to somehow “belong” to one political party or the other. Different people can relate to different elements of the same movie. I saw part of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles this week - April is now a woman of color and a Pride Month board features prominently at the local school. I haven’t heard any complaints about the movie being “Woke”.

If a "woke" movie does well at the box office, conservatives change the narrative to how the movie is "not actually woke."

For example, Avatar: The Way of Water and the Mario got a lot of hate-filled Youtubers saying prior to release how they would be woke flops, but then once the movies started making a lot of money the narrative shifted to how a "non-woke" movie was doing so well.

I wouldn't even be surprised if Ben Shapiro secretly loved Barbie but put up a performative hate rant against the film for clicks.

 

[Andrew C]

If a "woke" movie does well at the box office, conservatives change the narrative to how the movie is "not actually woke."

For example, Avatar: The Way of Water and the Mario got a lot of hate-filled Youtubers saying prior to release how they would be woke flops, but then once the movies started making a lot of money the narrative shifted to how a "non-woke" movie was doing so well.

I wouldn't even be surprised if Ben Shapiro secretly loved Barbie but put up a performative hate rant against the film for clicks.

People on YouTube have opinions. Who knew?

 

[DisneyHead123]

If a "woke" movie does well at the box office, conservatives change the narrative to how the movie is "not actually woke."

For example, Avatar: The Way of Water and the Mario got a lot of hate-filled Youtubers saying prior to release how they would be woke flops, but then once the movies started making a lot of money the narrative shifted to how a "non-woke" movie was doing so well.

I wouldn't even be surprised if Ben Shapiro secretly loved Barbie but put up a performative hate rant against the film for clicks.

Well, maybe they’re right for the wrong reasons, but still right overall, so I’d say that’s a good thing.

I have complained about “Wokeness” at times. That said, I really don’t think any mainstream movies released in the past few years are what I would consider “Woke”. If major media made a movie celebrating law enforcement free autonomous zones in the Pacific Northwest? Then I would have a problem with it. But “girl power” and “hey, some people are gay!” and such are all pretty vanilla themes to my mind. Homosexuality has been less represented onscreen but accepting gay people isn’t some far left kinda idea in 2023. My local Walmart carries Pride merch.

 

[crispy]

Correction: a trio of movies he didn’t watch. He can’t possibly know whether he likes them or not.

I hate this argument. The job of a studio is make movies that appeal to audiences. People shouldn't be forced to watch a movie they have no desire to see in order have an opinion about it. I think saying the movie looks unappealing is viable commentary that the studio has failed to do its job. If a movie is actually good, positive word of mouth will usually give it legs and momentum. We have seen that with both Puss in Boots 2 and Elemental.

Fundamentally, audiences are not connecting with the movies Disney is putting out. That is the fault of Disney, not the consumer.

 

[LittleBuford]

I hate this argument. The job of a studio is make movies that appeal to audiences. People shouldn't be forced to watch a movie they have no desire to see in order have an opinion about it. I think saying the movie looks unappealing is viable commentary that the studio has failed to do its job. If a movie is actually good, positive word of mouth will usually give it legs and momentum. We have seen that with both Puss in Boots 2 and Elemental.

Fundamentally, audiences are not connecting with the movies Disney is putting out. That is the fault of Disney, not the consumer.

This has nothing to do with my point, which is simply that one can’t definitively judge a film without first watching it. But such clairvoyance seems to be par for the course here.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I enjoyed it some because it is based in parks and with the iconic ride.

But it’s not a good movie at all and would fall flat with non-park sycophants

Full stop

And what you just said is why I want to see it too. So, I guess they can count one more person seeing HM in the future

 

[erasure fan1]

The job of a studio is make movies that appeal to audiences. People shouldn't be forced to watch a movie they have no desire to see in order have an opinion about it. I think saying the movie looks unappealing is viable commentary that the studio has failed to do its job.

I agree. If the studio does its job, I'll want to go see the movie. I could name bunches of movies I thought I would have zero desire to go see. And once the marketing hit, that all changed. I can bring it back to mermaid. There was zero chance I was going to see the film based on the horrible trailers. Maybe it's a lot better than what the trailers showed. But that's not shame on me for not seeing it. It's shame on Disney for bad marketing.

This has nothing to do with my point, which is simply that one can’t definitively judge a film without first watching it. But such clairvoyance seems to be par for the course here.

True. But there are plenty of things you can judge based on marketing. And while it would be hard to say something like the little mermaid is the worst film ever made if you haven't seen it. Saying the character models are bad or scuttlebutt being the worst song put into a Disney film ever, is more than fair game. Some here might be too critical of things you can't judge without seeing a film. But there's plenty of people who shout down any opinion, even if it's something that is readily available to critique, with "WELL HAVE YOU SEEN IT YET?" It's definitely a two way street.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I wouldn't even be surprised if Ben Shapiro secretly loved Barbie but put up a performative hate rant against the film for clicks.

Yep.

Those types make a living by stoking rage in an easily manipulated audience.

Their "opinions" should not be considered to be legitimate assessments of the quality of a film.

 

[LittleBuford]

True. But there are plenty of things you can judge based on marketing. And while it would be hard to say something like the little mermaid is the worst film ever made if you haven't seen it. Saying the character models are bad or scuttlebutt being the worst song put into a Disney film ever, is more than fair game. Some here might be too critical of things you can't judge without seeing a film. But there's plenty of people who shout down any opinion, even if it's something that is readily available to critique, with "WELL HAVE YOU SEEN IT YET?" It's definitely a two way street.

Sure, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect someone to have seen a film before opining on its merits, especially when they post repeatedly on the topic.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Saying the character models are bad or scuttlebutt being the worst song put into a Disney film ever, is more than fair game.

I’m still amazed they released this song ahead of the film, I wonder how many people chose not to see this movie solely on how bad the song was?

The marketing for this movie was terrible from the start, from the initial trailer with horrible CGI to the horrible song they release it looked like it was going to be a horrible movie. I think the primary reason this movie had legs () and ended up in break even territory was that the positive word of mouth overcame the horrible marketing campaign.

This may be the lone exception where no marketing would have benefitted the product.

 

[erasure fan1]

Sure, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect someone to have seen a film before opining on its merits, especially when they post repeatedly on the topic.

Depending on what is being talked about, or the context of what's being talked about, I totally agree. As a forum we can all get a bit overzealous in our opinion, either direction. It all depends on what merits are being talked about. Again, something like mermaid was fair game to question its merit as you say based on how the marketing went. Unfortunately as long as Disney does live action remakes, these same arguments are going to happen. And people who are against them, will not go see them. So it's up to Disney to try and wow them to see it.

 

[doctornick]

So let’s take stock:

NOT WOKE: character stares directly at camera and explains America is a crushingly oppressive patriarchy
WOKE: tertiary same-sex characters kiss in background; woman can fly spaceship; mermaid is African American

See, folks? Totally logical and not arbitrary at all.

It’s not arbitrary. I tried to illustrate it earlier in this thread but I’m not sure people understand the “rep” that Disney has now developed among middle of the road America. It’s not a gay character or kiss in the background of a movie, no those are small and would be ignored largely by most everyone. No, it’s the constant and often preachy progressive ideals that are finding their way in virtually every Disney product which has put a specific target on the company not by right wing extremists but by much more central people who previously trusted Disney implicitly to be wholesome, family friendly and “safe”.

While there had been some movement to progressive ideals already by Disney - heck, Disney is a Hollywood company after all - the acceleration IMHO occurred when the vocally opposed the Florida bill on parental rights in schools which is a massive hot button issue for many Americans. After this, the spotlight was on them and you get stuff like the absolutely tone deaf 1619 Project-esque song in The Proud Family and it’s easy to see why even little things get blown out of proportion for Disney now. They really need to go into overdrive to re-center themselves as a company without political positions and stop having their productions put messaging in front on good storytelling. I feel like almost every show on D+ has at least one moment or scene where it’s clear that okay, that’s where the DEI folks put their mark in here.

Just make good movies and shows and leave the political crap behind.

 

[drizgirl]

I just read that Michael Knowles - literally of The Daily Wire - loves Barbie and praised Greta Gerwig as “genius”.

Maybe it’s overly optimistic, but I do see the Barbie phenomenon as a sign that people are tiring of the endless zero sum culture wars and are open to finding a middle ground. That not every movie has to somehow “belong” to one political party or the other. Different people can relate to different elements of the same movie. I saw part of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles this week - April is now a woman of color and a Pride Month board features prominently at the local school. I haven’t heard any complaints about the movie being “Woke”.

Or.... maybe people are just deciding for themselves and there isn't as much "group think" as everyone wants to believe.

I saw Barbie with my daughter and loved it. I wouldn't call it woke so much as I would call it over the top with the man hating. I also have sons and did wince at some of it on their behalf. But the move is satire so I could still appreciate it for what it was. And it spoke to me as a woman in a way really no other movie ever has. I was happy to share that with my daughter.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It’s not arbitrary. I tried to illustrate it earlier in this thread but I’m not sure people understand the “rep” that Disney has now developed among middle of the road America. It’s not a gay character or kiss in the background of a movie, no those are small and would be ignored largely by most everyone. No, it’s the constant and often preachy progressive ideals that are finding their way in virtually every Disney product which has put a specific target on the company not by right wing extremists but by much more central people who previously trusted Disney implicitly to be wholesome, family friendly and “safe”.

While there has been some movement to progressive ideals already - heck, Disney is a Hollywood company after all - the acceleration IMHO when the vocally opposed the Florida bill on parental rights in schools which is a massive hot button issue for many Americans. After this, the spotlight was on them and you have stuff like the absolutely tone deaf 1619 Project-esque song in The Proud Family and it’s easy to see why even little things get blown out of proportion for Disney. They really need to go into overdrive to re-center themselves as a company without political positions and stop having their productions put messaging in front on good storytelling. I feel like almost every show on D+ has at least one moment or scene where it’s clear that okay, that’s where the DEI folks put their mark in here.

Just make good movies and shows and leave the political crap behind.

I know that you think you're standing at the center, but you're not. Your list was a litany of fairly far right complaints that have been pushed by an extremist culture war noise machine. Whether or not such issues would normally go unnoticed, a huge noise machine including online commentators and "news" sources, major print and broadcast "news" outlets (the biggest in the country), and prominent politicians very intentionally made them into issues. As you acknowledge, an infinitesimal number of people would have known about the "DEI" rap in Proud Family and far fewer would have fit it into an overarching narrative of "woke Disney" without the machinations of the culture war noise machine. The fact that you now read all Disney media through the lens they established is evidence of how effective it is.

Almost none of the instance's you cite are "preachy." Barbie is "preachy." Most of the Disney material is representation that angers folks. Neither Lightyear or Strange World had a primarily pro-LGB storyline. The LGB characters were presented in exactly the way folks who often complain about "preachiness" claim to want such characters included - matter-of-factly, without drawing attention to it. But the very existence of such characters is unacceptable to the noise machine and its inherents.

You're correct, the Florida bill was the point of acceleration, because it was the moment the culture war machine, for a variety of reasons we can't go into here, firmly fixated on Disney.

All art is political. When you say "leave the political crap behind," what you mean is "conform to my politics." In this case, that means minimizing minority representation. It's not a neutral position, as much as its adherents pretend it is. Extremists don't get to define what "wholesome, family friendly, and 'safe'" means, and they certainly don't get to pretend a significant number of their fellow citizens fall outside that definition.

 

[erasure fan1]

No, it’s the constant and often preachy progressive ideals that are finding their way in virtually every Disney product which has put a specific target on the company

Yea, like it or not Disney has become the main target of this whole debate. It's like McDonald's. Was Burger King, Wendy's, Hardy's... Better for kids than McDonald's? No, of course not. But what was the company that was on blast through the whole child obesity debate? McDonald's. Why? Because they were considered to have the most influence with kids because of the happy meal. So McDonald's changed how they did happy meals and adjusted until things passed over. Fair or not, it's just something Disney is going to have to deal with. But like a lot of us have said, focus on quality stories first.

 

[drizgirl]

I know that you think you're standing at the center, but you're not. Your list was a litany of fairly far right complaints that have been pushed by an extremist culture war noise machine. Whether or not such issues would normally go unnoticed, a huge noise machine including online commentators and "news" sources, major print and broadcast "news" outlets (the biggest in the country), and prominent politicians very intentionally made them into issues. As you acknowledge, an infinitesimal number of people would have known about the "DEI" rap in Proud Family and far fewer would have fit it into an overarching narrative of "woke Disney" without the machinations of the culture war noise machine. The fact that you now read all Disney media through the lens they established is evidence of how effective it is.

Almost none of the instance's you cite are "preachy." Barbie is "preachy." Most of the Disney material is representation that angers folks. Neither Lightyear or Strange World had a primarily pro-LGB storyline. The LGB characters were presented in exactly the way folks who often complain about "preachiness" claim to want such characters included - matter-of-factly, without drawing attention to it. But the very existence of such characters is unacceptable to the noise machine and its inherents.

You're correct, the Florida bill was the point of acceleration, because it was the moment the culture war machine, for a variety of reasons we can't go into here, firmly fixated on Disney.

All art is political. When you say "leave the political crap behind," what you mean is "conform to my politics." In this case, that means minimizing minority representation. It's not a neutral position, as much as its adherents pretend it is. Extremists don't get to define what "wholesome, family friendly, and 'safe'" means, and they certainly don't get to pretend a significant number of their fellow citizens fall outside that definition.

No, leaving the political crap behind does not mean "conform to my politics". The problem is that some think instilling a dose of politics into everything should be the new default option.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m glad politics aren’t allowed in these types of discussions…

Cause I bet it would get wild and all over the place