Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Casper Gutman]

No, leaving the political crap behind does not mean "conform to my politics". The problem is that some thing instilling a dose of politics into everything should be the new default option.

It absolutely does. Again, all art is political. When a piece of art doesn’t seem political to you, that’s because its politics are hewing reasonably close to or at least not directly contradicting yours. The myth of neutral art, pop or otherwise, is now and always has been a myth.

Here’s a question - outside of Proud Family, what are the three moments in recent Disney media that posters consider the most explicitly “political” and “preachy?”

 

[wtyy21]

I just read that Michael Knowles - literally of The Daily Wire - loves Barbie and praised Greta Gerwig as “genius”.

Maybe it’s overly optimistic, but I do see the Barbie phenomenon as a sign that people are tiring of the endless zero sum culture wars and are open to finding a middle ground. That not every movie has to somehow “belong” to one political party or the other. Different people can relate to different elements of the same movie. I saw part of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles this week - April is now a woman of color and a Pride Month board features prominently at the local school. I haven’t heard any complaints about the movie being “Woke”.

However, Greta Gerwig not only known as co-writer of Barbie, she also known as co-writer of the upcoming Snow White, which due to release in 2024.

 

[drizgirl]

It absolutely does. Again, all art is political. When a piece of art doesn’t seem political to you, that’s because its politics are hewing reasonably close to or at least not directly contradicting yours. The myth of neutral art, pop or otherwise, is now and always has been a myth.

Here’s a question - outside of Proud Family, what are the three moments in recent Disney media that posters consider the most explicitly “political” and “preachy?”

We will have to agree on that assessment of art. I understand that a lot of art is political. I just don't think that it all is. Or has to be.

Why aren't you including the "Proud Family" bit as one of your examples?

 

[GimpYancIent]

Disney has lost the skills to read its audience, creativity and imagination to give the audience what it wants. All that remains is the basic beginning......

 

[Andrew C]

Or.... maybe people are just deciding for themselves and there isn't as much "group think" as everyone wants to believe.

I saw Barbie with my daughter and loved it. I wouldn't call it woke so much as I would call it over the top with the man hating. I also have sons and did wince at some of it on their behalf. But the move is satire so I could still appreciate it for what it was. And it spoke to me as a woman in a way really no other movie ever has. I was happy to share that with my daughter.

You think good for a 10 year old?

 

[drizgirl]

You think good for a 10 year old?

I personally wouldn't take a 10 year old. I went with my 22 year old daughter and it sparked a lot of discussion about feminism in my lifetime and in hers. Very deep stuff. Very emotional and meaningful conversation.

That's not to say a 10 year old wouldn't find interest in the lifesize Barbie props and such. But I doubt she's really ready for the primary message. And I doubt a 10 year old would fully grasp the use of satire for emphasis and might assume the depiction of men in the real world is accurate..

 

[TalkingHead]

Iger taking a page out of Eisner’s playbook. If the plan isn’t working, double down on it. Clueless.

 

[Tha Realest]

The only thing I’m confident in saying about this project (IF it ever comes about) is that Zachary Levi will not be reprising his role

 

[drizgirl]

Iger taking a page out of Eisner’s playbook. If the plan isn’t working, double down on it. Clueless.

This is long past doubling down. Probably quintupling down by now.

 

[Casper Gutman]

If you’re CEO of Disney, precisely what films do you green light? I’m not looking for silly responses like “good ones,” and if your answer is “cheaper ones,” I’d like to know exactly where you cut costs. Also, bear in mind you’re making films for an audience that hasn’t turned a non-IP film into a hit since well before the pandemic - and those were Disney animated films of the type the company is still very dedicated to producing.

So - Barbie and Mario are big hits - what specific films do you green light?

 

[celluloid]

The only thing I’m confident in saying about this project (IF it ever comes about) is that Zachary Levi will not be reprising his role

Do we hate him now? No bankability? Am I missing something?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

If you’re CEO of Disney, precisely what films do you green light? I’m not looking for silly responses like “good ones,” and if your answer is “cheaper ones,” I’d like to know exactly where you cut costs. Also, bear in mind you’re making films for an audience that hasn’t turned a non-IP film into a hit since well before the pandemic - and those were Disney animated films of the type the company is still very dedicated to producing.

So - Barbie and Mario are big hits - what specific films do you green light?

I'd start with making movies that have a proven history of success with specific audiences rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

They know animated princess musicals have a nearly perfect record with girls and families, so they give us 2 outer space themed adventure movies aimed at boys. They know Marvel superhero movies have a nearly perfect record with young men so they give us a half dozen female empowerment superhero movies aimed at women. They know remakes have a nearly perfect track record of making bank on nostalgia, so they give us altered and modernized stories that abandon the nostalgia in favor of political correctness.

I'm not sure who Disney is making movies for but it's not their core audience.

 

[celluloid]

If you’re CEO of Disney, precisely what films do you green light? I’m not looking for silly responses like “good ones,” and if your answer is “cheaper ones,” I’d like to know exactly where you cut costs. Also, bear in mind you’re making films for an audience that hasn’t turned a non-IP film into a hit since well before the pandemic - and those were Disney animated films of the type the company is still very dedicated to producing.

So - Barbie and Mario are big hits - what specific films do you green light?

It seems the other studios are trend setters, so I would probably start with that.

Traditionally do what we do well and tell great stories and some happen to be fairy tales.

I think your cutting cost one does matter when it comes to being more specific.

The Haunted Mansion film could have been half the price had they decided not to cast Owen Wilson, Jamie Lee Curtis, Danny Davito and Jared Leto.
Do that and hire a differenet writer, put Ryan Gosling in it who always wanted to be in it instead of the other cast who were overpaid and you would have likely had a better chance, certainly not worse.

It is funny because with your post it seems to go back to what we all see. Disney has a Disney problem.

There is no reason 20th Century Fox/Disney could not produce a film like Oppenheimer.

I can certainly tell you I would not be greenlighting theatrical big budget spectacles of stories we have just told the last 12 years. (Moana/Tangled)

 

[MisterPenguin]

If you’re CEO of Disney, precisely what films do you green light? I’m not looking for silly responses like “good ones,” and if your answer is “cheaper ones,” I’d like to know exactly where you cut costs. Also, bear in mind you’re making films for an audience that hasn’t turned a non-IP film into a hit since well before the pandemic - and those were Disney animated films of the type the company is still very dedicated to producing.

So - Barbie and Mario are big hits - what specific films do you green light?

Skibidi Toilet

 

[Chi84]

I'd start with making movies that have a proven history of success with specific audiences rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

They know animated princess musicals have a nearly perfect record with girls and families, so they give us 2 outer space themed adventure movies aimed at boys. They know Marvel superhero movies have a nearly perfect record with young men so they give us a half dozen female empowerment superhero movies aimed at women. They know remakes have a nearly perfect track record of making bank on nostalgia, so they give us altered and modernized stories that abandon the nostalgia in favor of political correctness.

I'm not sure who Disney is making movies for but it's not their core audience.

But they already made those movies. Just more of exactly the same?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

But they already made those movies. Just more of exactly the same?

Same type of movies but not the same stories. Tangled, Frozen, Moana, Encanto, etc are all recent Princess style musicals but they are all very different, I don’t necessarily want sequels to them specifically (although those will also make bank) but something in the same category. Same with Marvel, Capt America, Thor, Iron Man… they’re all similar in style but very different stories.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Or.... maybe people are just deciding for themselves and there isn't as much "group think" as everyone wants to believe.

I saw Barbie with my daughter and loved it. I wouldn't call it woke so much as I would call it over the top with the man hating. I also have sons and did wince at some of it on their behalf. But the move is satire so I could still appreciate it for what it was. And it spoke to me as a woman in a way really no other movie ever has. I was happy to share that with my daughter.

Yeah, I haven’t seen the movie but it does sound like the spoofy satire element glosses over the real issues of boys increasingly falling behind in the modern world. The number of boys diagnosed with ADHD, autism, and learning disabilities and then medicated is growing exponentially, as jobs for blue collar male workers dry up and go overseas and opioid addiction is endemic. As a mom of a son, the world for young men looks scary sometimes.

That said, it is a relief to see a break in the groupthink! To say “looks like a great time although the patriarchy thing looks over-the-top” without it having to be some bigger statement about politics or tribal loyalties or anything like that. To just let a movie be a fun, goofy, sometimes flawed movie.

 

[DisneyHead123]

However, Greta Gerwig not only known as co-writer of Barbie, she also known as co-writer of the upcoming Snow White, which due to release in 2024.

Forgot about that!

 

[Chi84]

Same type of movies but not the same stories. Tangled, Frozen, Moana, Encanto, etc are all recent Princess style musicals but they are all very different, I don’t necessarily want sequels to them specifically (although those will also make bank) but something in the same category. Same with Marvel, Capt America, Thor, Iron Man… they’re all similar in style but very different stories.

I wouldn’t put Encanto in there, but I get what you’re saying. I honestly haven’t seen any of the superhero ones so I can’t comment on those.

I’m more in the camp of liking them to branch out a little, but I agree some of the recent movies don’t seem very exciting.

I do like live-action versions and I thought The Little Mermaid was excellent.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I'd start with making movies that have a proven history of success with specific audiences rather than trying to reinvent the wheel.

They know animated princess musicals have a nearly perfect record with girls and families, so they give us 2 outer space themed adventure movies aimed at boys. They know Marvel superhero movies have a nearly perfect record with young men so they give us a half dozen female empowerment superhero movies aimed at women. They know remakes have a nearly perfect track record of making bank on nostalgia, so they give us altered and modernized stories that abandon the nostalgia in favor of political correctness.

I'm not sure who Disney is making movies for but it's not their core audience.

Marvel movies set box office records by being four quadrant hits. They weren’t “boys stuff,” although a number of boys who said things like “M-She-U” tried to make them so. Both Captain Marvel and DCs Wonder Woman were big hits. And all that said, there HASN’T been some huge swing towards female leads - there’s absolutely no “half-dozen female empowerment films.” We’ve just had Thor and Doctor Strange films and Deadpool and Cap are next. The Marvels is an outlier. And that’s sort of the point - the noise machine is going to grab ahold of The Marvels and try to make it emblematic of the “M-She-U” when it isn’t. It’s resistance to any diversity at all.

That seems to be the theme to a lot of your suggestions - Disney needs to do what it’s doing now, but with no attempt at increasing minority representation. Setting aside the politics of it, Im not sure that’s even an economically winning formula with an increasingly diverse audience.