Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Wrong. People are already nostalgic for VHS. Disney even sold purses based on the old cases.

Disney already tiptoed into this market with that weird licensed release of a WandaVision physical case for a project that doesn't even exist in physical form.

Yeah…and funko is selling toys in little vhs cases.

That is NOT like vinyl. That’s a cheeky, low market take on something outdated. You know there’s no tape in the purses, right?

Be kind, please rewind your Loungefly

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

Wrong. People are already nostalgic for VHS. Disney even sold purses based on the old cases.

Disney already tiptoed into this market with that weird licensed release of a WandaVision physical case for a project that doesn't even exist in physical form.

This proves my point that people who buy physical are more interested in the packaging than the actual film/show

 

[MisterPenguin]

People are getting burned out on subscribing to multiple streaming services to keep up with the shows/movies they like.

People say that, and yet the number of subscriptions to streaming services grow, as well as the free ad-supported VOD or internet linear channels.

Subscription to a virtual cable box (like Hulu) plus one or two other streamers that one can easily sub for a month or two and cancel is still cheaper than cable.

Maybe people can't be bothered with the on again / off again management of several streamers. Which is actually super easy: subscribe with your credit card, then immediately cancel. You just paid for one month and the sub won't auto-renew.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

I'm not worried about "losing" digital media.

The actual number of cases where a purchased product has been pulled are rare, but the practice is exaggerated due to publicity over isolated incidents.

If I lose something, the odds are I can find a copy to download somewhere, especially if it's something well known.

It also helps to purchase from reliable retailers. Apple doesn't remove purchases from your digital library, even if that show or movie stops being available for new purchases.

I wish I had Moonlighting on DVD right now - although I probably would watch it once and then resell it because they're going for like $50 per season. Can't stream it anywhere. (But I have Quantum Leap!)

Sure, there are plenty of other things to watch, but so far this has been the summer of Marvel and Meh. No network shows that we watch are airing, we've burned through the DVR, we finally watched all the Marvel movies except Iron Man 3 and Thor after the first one (working on it!) Almost everything else we gave a shot on Netflix or other services has been "just ok," Secret Invasion was actually one of the better ones.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Vinyl is selling well and is no longer a rarity. It's just that kids these days call them vinyls instead of albums.

Vinyl Records Outsell CDs for the First Time Since 1987 [archive link]​

People are getting burned out on subscribing to multiple streaming services to keep up with the shows/movies they like. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Blu-Rays and box sets came back in vogue. Especially if they get creative with them like some artists have with their vinyl releases.

Do people care about special features with movies any more? I remember back in the day elaborate sets for Toy Story, A Bug's Life, and Atlantis among others.

Most movies nowadays include a few deleted scenes and a short making of feature that is just fluff. Lucasfilm still includes decent documentaries, for all three Star Wars sequels. Avatar 2 has a ton of content, and is actually interesting. It's not just promotional in nature. It's one of the rare releases where the extras justify buying the movie instead of waiting to stream on Disney+.

When everything is available on demand, there has to be incentive to buy outright.

Wrong. People are already nostalgic for VHS. Disney even sold purses based on the old cases.

Disney already tiptoed into this market with that weird licensed release of a WandaVision physical case for a project that doesn't even exist in physical form.

Disney isn't directly selling empty steelbooks. A company licensed the right to do so, but it isn't a Disney policy or strategy, and they may have actually been caught off guard with that.

No, Marvel hasn’t announced a WandaVision Blu-ray, plus WDSHE reportedly exits Australia & updates on The Exorcist, Rosemary’s Baby, Scream 3 & more in 4K Ultra HD

Okay, folks... we’ve got a LOT of ground to cover today, and I’m seriously not kidding, so strap in and hold on tight... First up, it broke last night on the Interwebs that a company called Manta Lab in Hong Kong, which is a legit Disney licensee, was taking pre-orders for a “disc-less”...

thedigitalbits.com

First up, it broke last night on the Interwebs that a company called Manta Lab in Hong Kong, which is a legit Disney licensee, was taking pre-orders for a “disc-less” Steelbook Blu-ray package for Marvel’s Disney+ streaming series WandaVision. Now, as you can imagine, that’s caused a great deal of surprise and consternation.

Some context... Manta Lab creates deluxe and custom packaging for lots of legit studio home entertainment releases, which are extremely popular with collectors, especially in the Asian market. However, since Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment officially exited the Asian market (apart from Japan), all of these licensing deals are made with Disney Consumer Products. The problem with this WandaVision release is that this is a title for which no authorized Blu-ray release exists anywhere in the world. So outside of the Steelbook packaging’s value as an objet d’art in and of itself, there’s no practical use for this packaging apart from holding people’s bootleg Blu-rays. And unfortunately, the proliferation of bootleg copies of Disney+ streaming titles has exploded online. (Don’t believe me? Visit Etsy and search for “WandaVision Blu-ray”—or just click here.)

In any case, when this news broke last night, too many otherwise respectable geek and movie news outlets online reported it as “Marvel and Disney have announced...” when nothing of the sort was true. This is a product licensed by Disney Consumer Products, but it is not in any way shape or form a licensed Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment release. I immediately contacted my sources at Disney last night, who assured me that this was the case, and who have this morning provided us with this statement:

“While Manta Lab is a legit licensee of Disney, and does create custom Steelbooks for Disney Blu-ray titles through Disney Consumer Products, the pre-order for a disc-less WandaVision was a surprise to some and we are looking into it as well as speaking to our partners in market.”

 

[Tony the Tigger]

most people who buy physical media are just collectors who like having the box art, they might watch it once and then it just sits on shelf for display
5 years from now, films on disc will be like vinyl in their rarity

It's just that kids these days call them vinyls instead of albums.

ETA: This drives me *nuts* and my employees are not allowed to say it(!)

But vinyl has a quality and an attractiveness to it. And nostalgia/retro

Video media never really did.

This proves my point that people who buy physical are more interested in the packaging than the actual film/show

Physical media varies from category to category, and is divided between collectible/commodity markets. Commodities can become collectibles very quickly (made as limited editions, such as Disney merch.)

Vinyl is up big. Our stores fully doubled in sales from 2020 to 2021 and continue to increase (at a more normal pace since then.)

CDs are up for a change (industry-wide, not just us) - we think that's because the price of vinyl is getting nuts in many cases. Cassettes are up. Yes, they are making cassettes for major releases.

I forget the exact percentage, but somewhere around 50% of new vinyl purchased is purchased by people without a turntable. The Taylor Swift fan just wants to collect them, whether they play them or not (though many do play them!) Similar with Disney - the picture discs especially - purchased to hang on the wall or collect. But many are played as well (as we see them getting traded in and obviously played.)

So we have to cater to both markets. Disney can certainly sell more physical media if they want to put effort into packaging, etc. It's one of the most collectible brands on Earth.

 

[flynnibus]

Tell it to vinyl.

A thriving niche market is just fine.

Vinyl’s proposition isn’t’buy it for insurance’. Different motivations and vinyl took decades to come back as retro/nostalgia. Decades of hiding in buy/sell second hand shops is not a revenue stream for the labels.

You should always have a hard copy of the important ones.

“Should” - but we’re talking about the public here… who already risk far more important things.

Where we see growth in the category is specialty titles, high quality pressings, and deluxe packaging - the collector market.

Like many segments…Fueled like many by speculators and arbitrage buying. Everyone wants to sell on ebay later…

As I said I wasn't disputing that its a shrinking segment, just one that studios will continue to exploit as long as they can. Because in the end its still a revenue stream albeit a shrinking one.

So less and less important. Aka not what you bet the future on.

That didn't stop the music industry, and as far as I can tell there isn't this huge surge in piracy.

The technology is far different today with kodi/etc. people can make their firestick a live pirate feed. It is far more rampant today than in the days of napster. The difference was when napster was a thing the industry was facing losing everything… they had no alternative… so the threat was greater even if the volume was smaller.

The friction in torrents that stream on demand is pretty low. Not grandma level… but “i put alexa in my house” level.

 

[Phroobar]

Yes. Are you confused?

Your morality is steal back what is legally taken away from you. Got it.

 

[Phroobar]

Do people care about special features with movies any more? I remember back in the day elaborate sets for Toy Story, A Bug's Life, and Atlantis among others.

Most movies nowadays include a few deleted scenes and a short making of feature that is just fluff. Lucasfilm still includes decent documentaries, for all three Star Wars sequels. Avatar 2 has a ton of content, and is actually interesting. It's not just promotional in nature. It's one of the rare releases where the extras justify buying the movie instead of waiting to stream on Disney+.

When everything is available on demand, there has to be incentive to buy outright.

Except by you.

 

[Phroobar]

Bottom line is copyright owners desire to be paid for their work. If they give you a limited use license, they are allowed to remove it. You don't get to just go and steal their work. By from a legit outlet and get the physical copy.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

“Should” - but we’re talking about the public here… who already risk far more important things.

True. Have your will done before securing your favorite TV series box set!

Like many segments…Fueled like many by speculators and arbitrage buying. Everyone wants to sell on ebay later…

Partially, yes. We crack down on this to a point. We also participate in it to a point.

There's a huge annual event called Record Store Day. When you participate, you agree not to mark up anything more than 20% above retail. That's meant to cover online fees. Then you generally limit purchases to 1 per title (until the day after, at least) and there's less getting flipped. Though philosophically, I'm not opposed to what I consider reasonable flipping.

Sorry, getting way OT. But the point was physical media segments can be grown rather than just watching them shrink. It takes some nurturing as opposed to years ago when everyone bought it, but it can also be higher margin higher end stuff.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Your morality is steal back what is legally taken away from you. Got it.

My expectation with a digital movie purchase is that I retain the right to stream it in perpetuity, despite any fine print about it being a temporary license.

I'm pretty sure most people feel the same way. My expectations are different when choosing between renting a movie for $7 on iTunes with a clear 48 hour viewing window and a $25 movie purchase.

This hasn't happened to me that I know of so it's a hypothetical. It would technically be illegal but the filmmakers got my $25 so I wouldn't feel any strong moral issues over not purchasing something a second time.

Maybe you should be more concerned at the prospect of major companies screwing over customers by taking back what was clearly intended to be a permanent purchase.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I wish I had Moonlighting on DVD right now - although I probably would watch it once and then resell it because they're going for like $50 per season. Can't stream it anywhere.

The series is noticeably unavailable to stream, rent or buy on any service currently due to the costly music licensing.[30] However, on October 5, 2022, Caron posted on his official Twitter account that work had begun to prepare all five seasons of the series for streaming.​

Moonlighting (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Except by you.

Wow, mispresenting what I said much? I own lots of content, physical and digital.

I said I might have no moral qualms "stealing" something I paid for with the expectation of ownership.

Which in your mind somehow equates to stealing everything willy nilly.

You should read what I actually said instead of going off on wild and unfounded accusations.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As for how much it'll contribute, that is on an individual film basis. For a film like Lightyear, it'll be minimal. But for a film like TLM it has the potential to bring in a whole lot more especially in the US due to its popularity here domestically.

I love you man…but PLEASE…try something different

It is the # 5 movie domestically…which means it will finish probably #7 or 8? For the year…

That’s not real “popular”

It’s just not a big deal. Let it go, Elsa

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The series is noticeably unavailable to stream, rent or buy on any service currently due to the costly music licensing.[30] However, on October 5, 2022, Caron posted on his official Twitter account that work had begun to prepare all five seasons of the series for streaming.​

Moonlighting (TV series) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can’t lie…I thought cybil Shepard was the cats meow

 

[Hawkeye_2018]

I have zero fear about losing any digital film purchase

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Bottom line is copyright owners desire to be paid for their work. If they give you a limited use license, they are allowed to remove it. You don't get to just go and steal their work. By from a legit outlet and get the physical copy.

This is part of the battle being fought in Hollywood - with no real solution - right now.

Corporations with quarterlies and artists are an absolutely terrible “match”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My expectation with a digital movie purchase is that I retain the right to stream it in perpetuity, despite any fine print about it being a temporary license.

I'm pretty sure most people feel the same way. My expectations are different when choosing between renting a movie for $7 on iTunes with a clear 48 hour viewing window and a $25 movie purchase.

This hasn't happened to me that I know of so it's a hypothetical. It would technically be illegal but the filmmakers got my $25 so I wouldn't feel any strong moral issues over not purchasing something a second time.

Maybe you should be more concerned at the prospect of major companies screwing over customers by taking back what was clearly intended to be a permanent purchase.

The good news is it’s not all bad.

If your license for the last Johnson runs out…you’ll be in a much better place

 

[Phroobar]

Wow, mispresenting what I said much? I own lots of content, physical and digital.

I said I might have no moral qualms "stealing" something I paid for with the expectation of ownership.

Which in your mind somehow equates to stealing everything willy nilly.

You should read what I actually said instead of going off on wild and unfounded accusations.

Stealing is stealing whether it is once or all the time. Artists desire to be paid.
Try reading your license agreement.