Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Ghost93]

The problem with Marvel has been mostly due to lackluster scriptwriting and too many bad or mediocre projects in a row. In 2022 and 2023 the number of mediocre or bad products have outweighed the number of good products.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Then we’ll not see “the FLASH bombed!” To divert attention anymore?

I discuss that all the time over and “wbmagic”

Actors are “known” to accept big checks.

Tell Irish. Nothing about Hollywood history would indicate That MCU isn’t headed for the shelf…at least for a while. Then we can enjoy the live action remakes

Yes. Actors are also known to move on after more than a decade playing the same character. And wait… aren’t you all about controlling budgets?

Anyone who thinks Marvel is headed for the shelf is very, very, very silly. In the last year and a half it’s had a hit followed by a hit followed by a hit followed by a flop followed by a hit. Any other franchise would kill for that record.

 

[Disney Irish]

Then we’ll not see “the FLASH bombed!” To divert attention anymore?

I discuss that all the time over and “wbmagic”

And yet nothing happens in a vacuum, ie its not only Disney having an issue.

Actors are “known” to accept big checks.

And actors are also known to refuse big checks because they want to do other things.

Tell Irish. Nothing about Hollywood history would indicate That MCU isn’t headed for the shelf…at least for a while. Then we can enjoy the live action remakes

I agree with everything @Casper Gutman said, and have said the same many times over the last few years. The MCU was always going to reset after End Game. I've said in many discussions with you that Phase 4 is effectively Phase 1 for the Multiverse Saga. It has to be built back up again.

We'll see over the course of the next few movies if the MCU is really hitting audience fatigue or if there were just individual one-off issues with specific movies. From the audience scores though, box office aside, all MCU films (not speaking about the D+ shows but the actual movies) post End Game, even Quantumania, were pretty well received by the audiences that saw them. So again the question will be answered over the course of the next couple years. Because I don't see them shutting down or "shelving" the MCU anytime soon.

I also don't see the MCU hitting a DC level of problems anytime soon either.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And yet nothing happens in a vacuum, ie its not only Disney having an issue.

I’m not sure who is denying it’s industry wide? But the attempts to indicative Disneys problems are in a big part because of their own bad management choices just doesn’t wash.

They are making crap…and the tricks they’ve leaned too heavily into is being rejected by a mass global audience.

And actors are also known to refuse big checks because they want to do other things.

Name a couple?

And before you say Daniel day Lewis…he’s paid A TON for what he does. Not exactly a Walmart plan

I agree with everything @Casper Gutman said, and have said the same many times over the last few years. The MCU was always going to reset after End Game. I've said in many discussions with you that Phase 4 is effectively Phase 1 for the Multiverse Saga. It has to be built back up again.

We'll see over the course of the next few movies if the MCU is really hitting audience fatigue or if there were just individual one-off issues with specific movies. From the audience scores though, box office aside, all MCU films (not speaking about the D+ shows but the actual movies) post End Game, even Quantumania, were pretty well received by the audiences that saw them. So again the question will be answered over the course of the next couple years. Because I don't see them shutting down or "shelving" the MCU anytime soon.

I also don't see the MCU hitting a DC level of problems anytime soon either.

Nah…you missed it. Denial and exaggeration is pretty “plentiful” in there

 

[Phicinfan]

Then we’ll not see “the FLASH bombed!” To divert attention anymore?

I discuss that all the time over and “wbmagic”



Actors are “known” to accept big checks.

Yes, and Actors have been known to pass up large rolls or walk away from major franchises, see Bond, see Tom Cruise turning down Iron Man.

Tell Irish. Nothing about Hollywood history would indicate That MCU isn’t headed for the shelf…at least for a while. Then we can enjoy the live action remakes

This actually is an easy fix. Focus on Fantastic Four(well done) and Xmen(again well done) and use new promising actors not high paid over priced ones and you easily fix the MCU. Then build stories off of FF, Xmen and Avengers.

 

[Phicinfan]

The problem with Marvel has been mostly due to lackluster scriptwriting and too many bad or mediocre projects in a row. In 2022 and 2023 the number of mediocre or bad products have outweighed the number of good products.

Agreed. Moving to smaller characters and away from large targets like Avengers and now Fantastic Four and Xmen(yes I realize they didn't have access to them before) has hindered the growth. Its almost like they convinced themselves they have to go totally opposite of Avengers to keep interest. Which was a HUGE mistake

 

[Ghost93]

Agreed. Moving to smaller characters and away from large targets like Avengers and now Fantastic Four and Xmen(yes I realize they didn't have access to them before) has hindered the growth. Its almost like they convinced themselves they have to go totally opposite of Avengers to keep interest. Which was a HUGE mistake

I don't even think the problem is moving to smaller characters, it's just that the projects featuring smaller characters haven't been that good! Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight started great, but ended up going off the rails.

Can't speak to Eternals because I personally love that movie but I understand it's generally viewed as a creative misfire.

 

[Disney Irish]

I’m not sure who is denying it’s industry wide?

There are a few around here trying to push this as only being a Disney problem.

But the attempts to indicative Disneys problems are in a big part because of their own bad management choices just doesn’t wash.

Some issues are choices made by bad management, some issues are due to industry wide issues.

They are making crap

That is a subjective opinion.

Name a couple?

And before you say Daniel day Lewis…he’s paid A TON for what he does. Not exactly a Walmart plan

Matt Damon passed on huge paycheck and 10% of the back end for Avatar.
Russel Crowe passed on an unknown amount and 10% of the back end for Lord of the Rings.
Sean Connery on passed on 30M and 15% of the back end for Lord of the Rings.
Will Ferrel passed on $30M for Elf 2.
Jerry Seinfeld passed on $110M for another season of Seinfeld.
Jim Parsons passed $50M for another season of Big Bang Theory
Michael Keaton even passed on playing Batman for a third time back in the 90s.

Actors aren't all beholden to the paycheck as you seem to think. They will pass up a huge payday for many reasons, including to focus on other projects.

Nah…you missed it. Denial and exaggeration is pretty “plentiful” in there

Nope, but you go ahead and believe that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There are a few around here trying to push this as only being a Disney problem.

It’s not. Disney and it’s blind fans tend to say they are on a different Level/standard…however.
Which means you can’t say “everyone is doing it…” when the narrative needs to shift.

But it’s industry wide. Which is probably a big reason why the studios nominated Bob Iger to be their hatchetman against the guilds

Some issues are choices made by bad management, some issues are due to industry wide issues.

At least 50/50. Which is an “F” grade for management still. Just an opinion.

That is a subjective opinion.

Backed up by lack of audiences seeing the materials and declining receipts/mounting losses.

Matt Damon passed on huge paycheck and 10% of the back end for Avatar.
Russel Crowe passed on an unknown amount and 10% of the back end for Lord of the Rings.
Sean Connery on passed on 30M and 15% of the back end for Lord of the Rings.
Will Ferrel passed on $30M for Elf 2.
Jerry Seinfeld passed on $110M for another season of Seinfeld.
Jim Parsons passed $50M for another season of Big Bang Theory
Michael Keaton even passed on playing Batman for a third time back in the 90s.

And yet…that’s over like 50 years…and I bet there was a little bit more to each and every story.
Smart actors - not Harrison ford - will decline when the sequels are crap concepts and it will hurt their own “brand”.

Neither RDJ or Chris Evans would ever pass on a decent story and a fat check to “explore other things…”

I got some magic beans to sell you.

Better example: Zoe Saldana said she’s done with guardians because “two huge franchise is too much” (she was in 3…but whatever)

Now If they were to write a good script and add enough zeros? She’ll be green again. I can write her “change of heart” comments right now.

Actors aren't all beholden to the paycheck as you seem to think. They will pass up a huge payday for many reasons, including to focus on other projects.

By nature…actors like fame, incluence and recognition.

You know what gets you all that?

You were saying?

Nope, but you go ahead and believe that.

I believe nobody gives a crap about avengers farm team vs the Easter egg

I’ll be on this hill if you need me

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The problem with Marvel has been mostly due to lackluster scriptwriting and too many bad or mediocre projects in a row. In 2022 and 2023 the number of mediocre or bad products have outweighed the number of good products.

Agreed. Moving to smaller characters and away from large targets like Avengers and now Fantastic Four and Xmen(yes I realize they didn't have access to them before) has hindered the growth. Its almost like they convinced themselves they have to go totally opposite of Avengers to keep interest. Which was a HUGE mistake

They need to get to X…now

I know comic book guys love FF…but it never does well to the masses.

Don’t try for the 5th? Or whatever round we’re in…

Get X going.

Which reminds me: I just watched dark Phoenix…and though it was predictable/rehashed…was not the worst comic book movie by far…

Why did THAT bomb?

 

[Phicinfan]

I don't even think the problem is moving to smaller characters, it's just that the projects featuring smaller characters haven't been that good! Ms. Marvel and Moon Knight started great, but ended up going off the rails.

Can't speak to Eternals because I personally love that movie but I understand it's generally viewed as a creative misfire.

Had they tied them into the "new Avengers" vs. stand alones up front, you would have gotten a much better response I believe. I agree the writing and plots were terrible. I will disagree on Moon Knight though, absolutely loved the plot twist at the end.

 

[Phicinfan]

They need to get to X…now

I know comic book guys love FF…but it never does well to the masses.

Don’t try for the 5th? Or whatever round we’re in…

Get X going.

Which reminds me: I just watched dark Phoenix…and though it was predictable/rehashed…was not the worst comic book movie by far…

Why did THAT bomb?

Too far from main story, and I don't think it was all that great. It got annoying to me late in film. But may just be me.

I would love to see Xmen moved up. I would love to see Xmen vs. Avengers. I would love to see FF brought in to watch over or police Avengers and Xmen. All great story lines that have KNOWN characters and would draw hugely.

 

[TalkingHead]

The problem with Marvel has been mostly due to lackluster scriptwriting and too many bad or mediocre projects in a row.

And drunk budgets and diminishing audiences and fewer actors whom the general public has any interest in. Yeah, it’s all good in Marvel Land.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And drunk budgets and diminishing audiences and fewer actors whom the general public has any interest in. Yeah, it’s all good in Marvel Land.

…this is what we’re having a hard time getting through to people on inside their own mental “magic kingdom” round here

 

[flynnibus]

The point was its not nothing as the poster I was responding was indicating.

As for how much it'll contribute, that is on an individual film basis. For a film like Lightyear, it'll be minimal. But for a film like TLM it has the potential to bring in a whole lot more especially in the US due to its popularity here domestically.

So while I'll agree that it won't be the same as it was in decades past, its not going to be nothing. Its why Studios still push out physical media into certain regions, as there is still a market for it in those regions. Once that market dries up completely then yeah it'll stop being something that is done worldwide. But until then its still a revenue stream that studios including Disney are going to exploit.

TLDR - A shrinking segment that is only accellerating and is less and less significant. The real delta here will be if they make a push to make PPV overtake theatres... and I think that will likely just result in a piracy surge with integrated torrenting maybe getting more and more mainstream.

Also we may see a resurgence in physical media sales as consumers discover that streamers aren't going to carry their favorite shows and movies indefinitely. As such it might become a large viable profit stream once again just like in decades past.

Theory - but unlikely to happen... because people aren't going to invest in 'backup' like this across the board and at scale enough to make it worth it. People don't even backup their baby's first steps reliably... and have no physical copies anymore... That haven't forced people to bring back paper photos at scale, a desire to hold a copy of TLM in case of dropped from D+ isn't going to happen at scale.

 

[flynnibus]

They absolutely should. Allowing entertainment companies to pull back or alter movies you’ve paid for at will or to essentially erase entire films and series from existence is a terrible model. Owning physical media (or a permanent download stored locally) is essential.

Owning physical media wasn't even a thing for the first 30yrs of TV and 60 years of movies. People survived and thrived.

People don't even own physical media copies of their most cherished life moments anymore... (videos, printed photos, etc)... things that will actually bother them when they lose them forever. I don't think wanting a backup copy of M*A*S*H is high enough on their importance to actually create a thriving market for it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Owning physical media wasn't even a thing for the first 30yrs of TV and 60 years of movies. People survived and thrived.

People don't even own physical media copies of their most cherished life moments anymore... (videos, printed photos, etc)... things that will actually bother them when they lose them forever. I don't think wanting a backup copy of M*A*S*H is high enough on their importance to actually create a thriving market for it.

People had vastly limited entertainment choices in the 20th century…you feeling ok?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Owning physical media wasn't even a thing for the first 30yrs of TV and 60 years of movies. People survived and thrived.

People don't even own physical media copies of their most cherished life moments anymore... (videos, printed photos, etc)... things that will actually bother them when they lose them forever. I don't think wanting a backup copy of M*A*S*H is high enough on their importance to actually create a thriving market for it.

Tell it to vinyl.

A thriving niche market is just fine.

People learn when their kid’s favorite movie can’t be streamed anymore and the DVD is $200 on Amazon. You should always have a hard copy of the important ones.

Where we see growth in the category is specialty titles, high quality pressings, and deluxe packaging - the collector market.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Tell it to vinyl.

A thriving niche market is just fine.

People learn when their kid’s favorite movie can’t be streamed anymore and the DVD is $200 on Amazon. You should always have a hard copy of the important ones.

Where we see growth in the category is specialty titles, high quality pressings, and deluxe packaging - the collector market.

Yep…that’s why I keep my collection of the 31 different editions of return of the Jedi in Betamax/vhs/laserdisc in mint condition

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yep…that’s why I keep my collection of the 31 different editions of return of the Jedi in Betamax/vhs/laserdisc in mint condition

Yeah, I’m not real happy with leaving the nation’s (and the world’s) pop culture heritage in the hands of the modern entertainment industry, especially when they’re financially incentivized to obliterate underperforming media from existence.