Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Tony the Tigger]

* because they are specifically trying to sell the movie to people who live in other countries! Duh!

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

My take:
Anthony Mackie's statement.. "For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things, and I don't think the term, you know, 'America' should be one of those representations," can be interpreted as distancing the character from its American roots, which some may perceive as anti-American.

In contrast, Chris Evans's comment, "I think he’s the ideal human. Not just American. It’s what being a good person is," emphasizes universal human values, presenting a more inclusive and global perspective.

The difference in wording and emphasis likely contributes to the varied reactions, with Mackie's phrasing appearing to some as a rejection of the character's national identity, while Evans's approach broadens the character's appeal without negating its American origins.

People are free to compare the two statements and have thoughts on why they're similar, or not.

The thing is, people were quick to jump on Mackie's comments and criticize them. People are pointing out in response to that criticism, the history of the character and other comments made in the past.

People were quick to jump on Mackie's comments because daily outrage is the name of the game and very few made any effort to learn the history and context. There wasn't a thoughtful conversation, just jumps to anger and criticism.

I don't know what happened in the past but I don't recall people piling on Evans in that same quick and decisive fashion.

 

[LittleBuford]

language can shape perceptions.
Negative Observation:
"John is lazy and unmotivated, often seen lounging around and avoiding physical activity."

Positive Observation:
"John has a relaxed and easygoing demeanor, often taking time to unwind and enjoy leisurely activities."

Yes, of course. But I don't find Evans's framing more delicate than Mackie's. Indeed, had Mackie uttered exactly the same words as Evans the other day, I believe he'd still be mired in the current controversy.

 

[Disney Irish]

Chis Evan’s went through this also, people have been upset with his comments before...

Prior to the release of “Lightyear” in 2022, Chris Evans made comments that sparked controversy among some audiences. The film features a same-sex kiss between two female characters, which led to bans in several countries. In response to critics of this representation, Evans stated:

“The real truth is those people are idiots.”

He further commented:

“There’s always going to be people who are afraid and unaware and trying to hold on to what was before. But those people die off like dinosaurs.”

These remarks were perceived by some as dismissive of individuals with traditional or conservative views, leading to criticism from certain groups.

Yeah, not at all the same. And if you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yeah, not at all the same. And if you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

Mackie insulted no-one. It's a strange comparison to draw.

 

[Chi84]

Yeah, not at all the same. And if you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.

There's nothing more to say. The posts speak for themselves so people can judge for themselves. Further discussion of the point is likely useless.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

People are free to compare the two statements and have thoughts on why they're similar, or not.

The thing is, people were quick to jump on Mackie's comments and criticize them. People are pointing out in response to that criticism, the history of the character and other comments made in the past.

People were quick to jump on Mackie's comments because daily outrage is the name of the game and very few made any effort to learn the history and context. There wasn't a thoughtful conversation, just jumps to anger and criticism.

I don't know what happened in the past but I don't recall people piling on Evans in that same quick and decisive fashion.

We have been discussing this and with the widespread availability of advanced smartphones, high speed internet, individuals can quickly share their opinions, photos, and videos on platforms like X, Facebook. This ease of access allows many to establish and have their own "bully pulpit”.

Users aren’t just sharing for fun, they’re turning it into a business. Whether it’s through marketing, sponsored post, selling digital products, people are using this platform to make money while getting their voice out there.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Yes, of course. But I don't find Evans's framing more delicate than Mackie's. Indeed, had Mackie uttered exactly the same words as Evans the other day, I believe he'd still be mired in the current controversy.

I disagree and if Mackie said exactly what Evans said he would be fine... and this is just my opinion. I like Anthony Mackie, and I’ve also said that this movie should do well.

Chris Evans framed his comments using "we," presenting Captain America as a collective effort and emphasizing the film's broader message. He positioned the character as universal, saying:

"I think he’s the ideal human. Not just American. It’s what being a good person is. It’s about decency. It’s about honesty. It’s about respect, compassion. Those are things you can apply to the world over."

In contrast, Mackie, again…I like the guy, took a more personal approach in his wording. His statement:

"For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things, and I don't think the term, you know, 'America' should be one of those representations."

This was the first thing he said, making it the standout soundbite—one that is easily amplified by media outlets and social media platforms. Given the current digital landscape, where headlines and clips are often taken out of context to generate controversy, this phrasing played into the hands of those who are critical of Disney and Marvel.

Unlike Evans, who often spoke in the context of the film and the character's broader symbolism, Mackie expressed his personal belief without framing it within the movie’s narrative. As a result, it became an easily marketable statement in today’s fast-paced, reaction-driven online environment.

Now…will this matter at the box office? No, but I’m just giving an observation as to why I think this story took off. I understand that many of the 15 members on this board may disagree with my perspective. I respect our diverse viewpoints and appreciate the opportunity to engage in this discussion.

 

[LittleBuford]

I disagree and if Mackie said exactly what Evans said he would be fine... and this is just my opinion. I like Anthony Mackie, and I’ve also said that this movie should do well.

Chris Evans framed his comments using "we," presenting Captain America as a collective effort and emphasizing the film's broader message. He positioned the character as universal, saying:

"I think he’s the ideal human. Not just American. It’s what being a good person is. It’s about decency. It’s about honesty. It’s about respect, compassion. Those are things you can apply to the world over."

In contrast, Mackie, again…I like the guy, took a more personal approach in his wording. His statement:

"For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things, and I don't think the term, you know, 'America' should be one of those representations."

This was the first thing he said, making it the standout soundbite—one that is easily amplified by media outlets and social media platforms. Given the current digital landscape, where headlines and clips are often taken out of context to generate controversy, this phrasing played into the hands of those who are critical of Disney and Marvel.

Unlike Evans, who often spoke in the context of the film and the character's broader symbolism, Mackie expressed his personal belief without framing it within the movie’s narrative. As a result, it became an easily marketable statement in today’s fast-paced, reaction-driven online environment.

Now…will this matter at the box office? No, but I’m just giving an observation as to why I think this story took off. I understand that many of the 15 members on this board may disagree with my perspective. I respect our diverse viewpoints and appreciate the opportunity to engage in this discussion.

We'll have to agree to disagree. We're dealing in subjective opinions and counterfactuals, so neither of us can know how things would have played out had Mackie used Evans's phrasing.

 

[Chi84]

I disagree and if Mackie said exactly what Evans said he would be fine... and this is just my opinion. I like Anthony Mackie, and I’ve also said that this movie should do well.

Chris Evans framed his comments using "we," presenting Captain America as a collective effort and emphasizing the film's broader message. He positioned the character as universal, saying:

"I think he’s the ideal human. Not just American. It’s what being a good person is. It’s about decency. It’s about honesty. It’s about respect, compassion. Those are things you can apply to the world over."

In contrast, Mackie, again…I like the guy, took a more personal approach in his wording. His statement:

"For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things, and I don't think the term, you know, 'America' should be one of those representations."

This was the first thing he said, making it the standout soundbite—one that is easily amplified by media outlets and social media platforms. Given the current digital landscape, where headlines and clips are often taken out of context to generate controversy, this phrasing played into the hands of those who are critical of Disney and Marvel.

Unlike Evans, who often spoke in the context of the film and the character's broader symbolism, Mackie expressed his personal belief without framing it within the movie’s narrative. As a result, it became an easily marketable statement in today’s fast-paced, reaction-driven online environment.

Now…will this matter at the box office? No, but I’m just giving an observation as to why I think this story took off. I understand that many of the 15 members on this board may disagree with my perspective. I respect our diverse viewpoints and appreciate the opportunity to engage in this discussion.

Evans said “we can’t change the fact that he was created in America.” According to the people criticizing Mackie, nothing else matters.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

Evans said “we can’t change the fact that he was created in America.” According to the people criticizing Mackie, nothing else matters.

In my opinion and I might be wrong. I’ll contrast this with Evans’s viewpoint.

In this case, Evans saying, “We can’t change the fact that he was created in America,” in a collective sense, using the word “we,” which is in line with how he discussed Captain America as part of a greater creative process. This kind of framing keeps his personal opinion from being too closely associated with the statement, instead making it more about the character’s past.

However, when Evans expressed himself on Lightyear, saying, “I think they are idiots,” he used the first-person pronoun “I” to condemn the critics, and this post was heavily criticized on social media. In the same manner, Mackie said, “For me, Captain America is a lot of things, and I don’t think that the word ‘America’ should be one of those things.” This was a personal opinion, and therefore easy to extract and use as a headline.

Here is my opinion..
The usage of ‘we’ and ‘I’ is crucial in influencing the public’s reaction. When Evans mentioned the word ‘we’ he was seen as a part of the discussion about the movie. When he used the first-person pronoun ‘I’ while discussing Lightyear, he put himself in the place of the critic, and, therefore, was torn by critics. The same happened with Mackie: his statement became a personal opinion and not about the symbol that is Captain America, which is why it was criticized.

Thank you for allowing me to share.

 

[easyrowrdw]

He went on to say, “I've said before in interviews, it feels more like he should just be called Captain Good.” I honestly don’t see how that’s less “offensive” (if one is going to get offended by such things) than what Mackie said. Both were stating that the term “America” wasn’t relevant to the character’s identity.

I agree with you. I'm assuming those quotes were from 2010 or 2011 so maybe they just didn't gain traction. Personally, I'd never heard them. And social media was big then but still nowhere near what it is now. That's to say nothing of the societal factors/partisanship that has changed in the last 15 years. I think his statements would go over differently now.

 

[Disney Irish]

My personal opinion and I could be wrong. I’ll use a compare and contrast with Evans.

Evans saying, “we can’t change the fact that he was created in America,” was framed collectively using “we”, which aligns with how he often spoke about Captain America, as part of a larger creative effort. This kind of framing distances his personal opinion from the statement, making it more about the character’s established history rather than a personal stance.

However, when Evans made his Lightyear comments, saying, “I think they are idiots,” he used “I”, which made it a personal attack on critics and led to major backlash online. Similarly, Mackie’s statement—“For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things, and I don’t think the term, you know, ‘America’ should be one of those representations.”—was framed as a personal opinion, making it easier to isolate and turn into a headline.

Here is my opinion..

The key difference is how “we” versus “I” affects public reception. When Evans used “we”, his comments were seen as part of a broader conversation about the film. When he used “I”, as with Lightyear, he was personally held accountable, leading to backlash. Mackie’s phrasing put him in the same situation—his statement became a personal opinion rather than a discussion about the character’s broader symbolism, which is why it received heavy criticism.

Thank you for allowing me to share.

The average person doesn't pick up on that nuance when reading something, especially when its a 10 second clip form. They don't distinguish the "I" verse "we" in the way you break it down. Its fine when grading an English paper, but when a normal person reads it they aren't grading it, they are ingesting it based on their perspective of life.

 

[brideck]

The average person doesn't pick up on that nuance when reading something, especially when its a 10 second clip form. They don't distinguish the "I" verse "we" in the way you break it down. Its fine when grading an English paper, but when a normal person reads it they aren't grading it, they are ingesting it based on their perspective of life.

Or the way, say, an AI-fueled analysis of actor's statements might parse it out.

 

[erasure fan1]

Also if you can't see that what Evans said is exactly the same as what Mackie said, then I don't know what to tell you.

As I showed, both lines can read differently. The two are not exactly the same, to you they might be. They are both trying to say the same thing but there's a subtle difference. Like I said, agree to disagree. None of this changes my view on Mackie. He's been a favorite of mine from the day he stepped on screen in winter soldier. Cut the check!

 

[MagicMouseFan]

The average person doesn't pick up on that nuance when reading something, especially when its a 10 second clip form. They don't distinguish the "I" verse "we" in the way you break it down. Its fine when grading an English paper, but when a normal person reads it they aren't grading it, they are ingesting it based on their perspective of life.

You’re absolutely right and excellent point Disney Irish! It’s not something that many people are going to purposely pay attention to the subtle difference in language when watching a 10 second clip. They’re not there thinking about whether it’s “I” or “we”; they are consuming it based on their own life.

But that raises another question: does it stay in the subconscious?


In a classic study by psychologists Tversky and Kahneman, the framing was shown to matter in decisions. The participants were given a scenario, a disease that would kill 600 people. It was offered in two treatments, one with a positive framing: lives saved; and the other with negative framing: lives lost.


I totally agree with that and that’s a great question Disney Irish! Not many people will intentionally pay attention to the little change in language when watching a 10 second video clip. They aren’t there thinking about whether it’s “I” or “we”; they are watching it based on their own lives.

But that raises another question: does it stay in the subconscious?

In a classic study by psychologists Tversky and Kahneman on the framing effect, the research found that phrasing does make a difference in decisions. The participants were given a scenario, a disease that would kill 600 people. They had to choose between two treatments, one with a positive framing: lives saved, and the other with negative framing: lives lost.

The first one was the positive framing:


• “200 people will be saved.”


• “There is a 33% chance that all 600 people will be saved, and a 66% chance that no one will be saved.”


The second one was the negative framing:


• “400 people will die.”


• “There is a 33% chance that no one will die, and a 66% chance that all 600 will die.”

The outcomes were the same, but people chose the ‘saved’ option in the positive frame and the risky option in the negative frame. The subject’s subconscious reaction was affected by the information provided to them, even if they did not know it.

Exactly how pr, advertising, and the media work. People do not think through every word that they say, but the way something is phrased does affect their perception. That is why sound bites and headlines are so carefully chosen. It may be intentional or not, but I do think that the switch from “I” to “we” does change the way a message is delivered, even if people aren’t actually paying attention to it.

 

[Disney Irish]

As I showed, both lines can read differently. The two are not exactly the same, to you they might be. They are both trying to say the same thing but there's a subtle difference. Like I said, agree to disagree. None of this changes my view on Mackie. He's been a favorite of mine from the day he stepped on screen in winter soldier. Cut the check!

I think the only way it can be read differently is if you're trying to find a reason to fault what Mackie is saying. As I've mentioned before, reasonable people can disagree on the wording, but the intent and message both convey cannot be disagree upon, even if you think they might be.

 

[brideck]

I'm sorry but no offense, this comes across as AI written drivel with no real understanding of how people actually write, especially the constant use of my full Avatar name, which no one here does unless tagging them.

Given my experience with AI from my technical life, I can spot an AI written response. And have long suspected many of your posts are AI written. Maybe English isn't your first language and you're using AI to help you formulate your response. But many of your posts don't come across as written by a human.

AI written with small humanizing tweaks or frames to be clear.

GPT will even identify it as such for you if you ask.

This isn't really a problem in and of itself, but if people here wanted to talk to GPT about Marvel publicity controversies they'd be logged into GPT and doing that, instead of being here.

 

[Disney Irish]

AI written with small humanizing tweaks or frames to be clear.

GPT will even identify it as such for you if you ask.

This isn't really a problem in and of itself, but if people here wanted to talk to GPT about Marvel publicity controversies they'd be logged into GPT and doing that, instead of being here.

I've been too lazy to put it through the filter, but yeah I believe others have and called the poster out for the same. I've tried to call out posts before, but they gotten the mods to delete them.

There is a Tuber with the same handle from Croatia that has put out a few, what appear to be, AI created videos, wonder if they are the same.

 

[Willmark]

I've been too lazy to put it through the filter, but yeah I believe others have and called the poster out for the same. I've tried to call out posts before, but they gotten the mods to delete them.

There is a Tuber with the same handle from Croatia that has put out a few, what appear to be, AI created videos, wonder if they are the same.

Very good point Disney Irish! I’m enjoying your thoughts on the matter and very much look forward to engaging with you in the future!