Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[brideck]

Unfortunately the bar is higher for Moana and Lion King. Those things have to operate like Barbie or the underperformance narrative is gonna ramp up. Again.

Why would both of those movies need to operate like Barbie? Early days, but Inside Out 2 is already doing that. If Disney is building its business plan (and if posters here are building their expectations around) every tentpole being a colossal outlying success, that's terribly unrealistic. Even if they are all of a similar, steady quality, that's just so unlikely to happen.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Convo with my friends last night they're not against seeing IO2. So maybe ill see it in the coming weeks.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How did we even get here in this discussion? Inside Out 2 — a good Disney movie — is doing phenomenally at the box office so this should theoretically be a happy time for all Disney fans. I do fear Disney may learn the wrong lessons (such as focusing more on franchises/sequels rather than prioritizing quality storytelling), but after such a disastrous 2023 this seems like good news for the company.

How it came up…last weekend when it was clear for EVERYONE that Inside out is a huge hit…the 2023 grievance committee tried to make a point that Doesn’t exist with it.

They ruined their own Joy…no pun intended.

Had the Inside Out series been announced before this week? Because seeing Disney return to milking a successful franchise into what is sure to be diminishing returns shows they are so, so back.

Unfortunately the bar is higher for Moana and Lion King. Those things have to operate like Barbie or the underperformance narrative is gonna ramp up. Again.

Bob gonna Bob

 

[TalkingHead]

Why would both of those movies need to operate like Barbie? Early days, but Inside Out 2 is already doing that. If Disney is building its business plan (and if posters here are building their expectations around) every tentpole being a colossal outlying success, that's terribly unrealistic. Even if they are all of a similar, steady quality, that's just so unlikely to happen.

That’s the point. It’s probably unsustainable at this level. Inside Out is benefiting from being the first Disney/Pixar animated franchise sequel in a while (five years?). It’s cashing in on pent-up demand. I’m actually wondering if Despicable Me may lose some business from people choosing to see the earlier release and deciding not to spend $$$ to see both.

 

[LittleBuford]

How it came up…last weekend when it was clear for EVERYONE that Inside out is a huge hit…the 2023 grievance committee tried to make a point that Doesn’t exist with it.

They ruined their own Joy…no pun intended.

Bob gonna Bob

This doesn’t quite reflect what happened. Posters on both “sides” of the debate opened up the topic around the same time:

I guess she has no school friends with two moms or it would tank.

Wait, but how can that be? It should have been review bombed to oblivion. This all doesn't make sense anymore. Maybe everyone is too busy dumping on the acolyte and forgot? I just don't get it. I thought the whole world was against Disney. And everyone listend to click bait YouTubers to make their decisions? Or is that only when it's convenient?

 

[Ghost93]

Not that long ago…and I’m sure still for many…we tried to shield our kids from all sexuality…

When things happen that cause the loss of Innocence too soon…like many of us have…makes you realize that innocence is something worth preserving if you can.

I’m just a coger though

I feel like older Disney films had much more overt sexuality than recent Disney animated movies, with the potential exception of Turning Red.

Aladdin and Jasmine and Pocahontas and John Smith had much more passionate kisses than anything Disney has allowed in an animated movie in the last 15 years. Mulan was checking out shirtless Li Shang. Megara was very seductive with Hercules and rejected an explicitly sexual advance from a centaur that captured her. Esmeralda did a pole dance and turned on all the male leads in the Hunchback of Notre Dame (with the villain singing an entire song about it). Nala gave Simba bedroom eyes during "Can You Feel the Love Tonight?" Chernabog created naked ladies to dance for him in Fantasia, and we got demon/harpy flying into the camera in that same sequence. In the Great Mouse Detective a female mouse takes off some of her clothing in a suggestive burlesque number. Ursula tells Ariel not to underestimate the importance of BODY LANGUAGE while shaking her butt.

I feel like it's revisionist history or nostalgia that blinds people to what the content of older Disney movies actually contained.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sexuality in this context doesn’t describe sexual behaviour but simply one’s identity in relation to the gender one is attracted to. Children have never been shielded from this concept. On the contrary, we are all brought up knowing that men (typically) marry women. It’s among the earliest social norms that children are exposed to and taught. Being straight is just as much a form of sexuality as being gay.

People fear change and variation

I’m not shocking you here…nor am I agreeing with it.

There’s usually a way thought and discourse can handle almost everything…even to children.

The world still sucks…I didn’t make it this way…but I’m not gonna thunder away at anyone of different mind either. This is mostly an exercise in vanity. Similar to all the little mermaid hot garbage takes.

 

[DKampy]

How it came up…last weekend when it was clear for EVERYONE that Inside out is a huge hit…the 2023 grievance committee tried to make a point that Doesn’t exist with it.

It probably depends on which point of view you are looking through… I started responding when certain people were throwing backhanded shade at Disney with comments like this is what happens when you create a family movie that is ok to bring your kids to…I still don’t understand what was not kid friendly about the 2023 slate

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I feel like older Disney films had much more overt sexuality than recent Disney animated movies, with the potential exception of Turning Red.

Aladdin and Jasmine and Pocahontas and John Smith had much more passionate kisses than anything Disney has allowed in an animated movie in the last 15 years. Mulan was checking out shirtless Li Shang. Megara was very seductive with Hercules and rejected an explicitly sexual advance from a centaur that captured her. Esmeralda did a pole dance and turned on all the male leads in the Hunchback of Notre Dame (with the villain singing an entire song about it). Nala gave Simba bedroom eyes during "Can You Feel the Love Tonight?" Chernabog created naked ladies to dance for him in Fantasia, and we got demon/harpy flying into the camera in that same sequence. In the Great Mouse Detective a female mouse takes off some of her clothing in a suggestive burlesque number. Ursula tells Ariel not to underestimate the importance of BODY LANGUAGE while shaking her butt.

I feel like it's revisionist history or nostalgia that blinds people to what the content of older Disney movies actually contained.

I agree with you and I LIKE this movement away.

Kids have too much open access to cesspool on the World Wide Web. They didn’t need kissy kissy when their grandparents take them to the movies too.

But make no mistake…they are moving away because these issues can’t be easily made acceptable to Disneys MASS audience and they know it.

So continually telling someone here “just deal with it…what’s wrong with you, ya bigot???” doesn’t even mess with the decisions and reality of this oh so noble, progressive company we pray to hear.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It probably depends on which point of view you are looking through… I started responding when certain people were throwing backhanded shade at Disney with comments like this is what happens when create a family movie that is ok to bring your kids to…I still don’t understand what was not kid friendly about the 2023 slate

This was a basketball game… it wasn’t a hockey game

There was a lot of stupidity and points scored by both “sides” driving up the score

It wasn’t a 1-0 shutout.

 

[brideck]

That’s the point. It’s probably unsustainable at this level. Inside Out is benefiting from being the first Disney/Pixar animated franchise sequel in a while (five years?). It’s cashing in on pent-up demand.

I think I'm still failing to see your point. So you seem to agree that it's unrealistic that all of those movies do "Barbie numbers," but your fear is what? That people here and/or in the Disney business commenting universe will have bad things to say about that?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Again, easy for you to say as someone entirely unaffected by the topic in question. You try living in a world where people attack you for your sexuality and then get back to me.

I’ve never once condoned that. And I fought against that as ALLY 30+ years ago. There was nothing “in it” for me…except you fight evil or you become its accomplice .

But that is about humanity. Debating Disney being “picked on” on trumped up pretenses because it makes their image “less magical” is an exercise in vanity.

We’re all fans…we should be able to accept imperfections and criticisms.

Hell…bob poured money into opening a park less than 10 years ago In the MOST REPRESSIVE REGIME In the first world.

Please with this “intentionally picked on” crap that’s been going on all week.

Dollars…bucks…dinero…

Eyes on their prize.

 

[Ghost93]

But make no mistake…they are moving away because these issues can’t be easily made acceptable to Disneys MASS audience and they know it.

I feel what has changed — not just with Disney but entertainment in general — is that in the 80s/90s/early 2000s movie studios tried to appeal to adults in their family entertainment by having some sexual references and dark themes. Nowadays, I think there's more of an emphasis on finding a theme/message that resonates with people of all ages. That's why more modern Disney and Pixar films have become more sophisticated in the subject matter they tackle, without having any of the overtly scary or romantically charged moments of Classic Disney.

 

[erasure fan1]

This doesn’t quite reflect what happened. Posters on both “sides” of the debate opened up the topic around the same time:

To be fair I was being a smart aleck because the usual backhand comments came out.

 

[Farerb]

I feel like older Disney films had much more overt sexuality than recent Disney animated movies, with the potential exception of Turning Red.

Aladdin and Jasmine and Pocahontas and John Smith had much more passionate kisses than anything Disney has allowed in an animated movie in the last 15 years. Mulan was checking out shirtless Li Shang. Megara was very seductive with Hercules and rejected an explicitly sexual advance from a centaur that captured her. Esmeralda did a pole dance and turned on all the male leads in the Hunchback of Notre Dame (with the villain singing an entire song about it). Nala gave Simba bedroom eyes during "Can You Feel the Love Tonight?" Chernabog created naked ladies to dance for him in Fantasia, and we got demon/harpy flying into the camera in that same sequence. In the Great Mouse Detective a female mouse takes off some of her clothing in a suggestive burlesque number. Ursula tells Ariel not to underestimate the importance of BODY LANGUAGE while shaking her butt.

I feel like it's revisionist history or nostalgia that blinds people to what the content of older Disney movies actually contained.

And wasn't it great when they were treated as actual movies and not boring content for toddlers?
Even in The Princess and the Frog you had Naveen making a move on Tiana. Characters felt like actual human beings and not whatever they were on Wish.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair I was being a smart aleck because the usual backhand comments came out.

I plead guilt on that too…

We try to have a conversation…and a select few try to “hint” that any Disney criticism makes some of us automatically hate mongers (and not good at pulling that off anyway…amateur hour)

So after tolerating that nonsense for over a year…I’m getting called a liar and cried at. Print doesn’t lie. Over and over again.

If I had tolerated it for 3 years would it stop?

Hell no. What a garbage tactic.

 

[Disney Irish]

At that time? Not Likely but not impossible.

You’re talking about a country where people had dates “supervised” and had to be out of each others house the night before the wedding by 9 pm.

My grandmother was one of them.

It’s not random we have a holiday dedicated to pilgrims

Well if it wasn't shielded from kids back in the 1950s then it shouldn't need to be shielded from kids in the 2020s for the same situation no matter the orientation of the people doing the kissing on-screen.

The only people turning this "sexual" are those that consider it "icky".

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There is absolutely an ongoing effort to target Disney and has been for a while now. It may not be YOUR reason(s) for laying into them but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just last year I had an employee come up to me in the early summer and tell me in a very serious and concerned tone that Disney had an active campaign to groom children and I will burn for all eternity if I continue to see their movies, go to the parks, etc.

I had another one who was no longer going to let their children watch Disney content because "Ron told me it would make my kids trans."

Where do you think they got that from?

I don't know what you want to call it when politicians, content creators, news channels, articles, radio shows, podcasts and editorials all start saying the same thing, almost verbatim but to me it is easy to see the goal of BS like that and it isn't to help Disney sell more tickets.

Honestly, if you saw a bunch of positive Disney news that all sounded almost exactly the same across a bunch of forms of media you would be ALL over Disney with claims of buying people off or trying to push a narrative but somehow when it is negative that can't be the case?

I personally don't think it is a primary reason for issues with recent releases, but you can't tell me it doesn't exist or has zero impact with a straight face when we see it in these very threads ALL THE TIME.

…do you think Bob would get more condolences from an edible arrangement or a candygram?

Poor Fortune 500.

Contrary to what dead judges say…Disney doesn’t have a “mind and soul”…They are out for money.

If they make it…great…if they don’t…fire away on the failures

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well if it wasn't shielded from kids back in the 1950s then it shouldn't need to be shielded from kids in the 2020s for the same situation no matter the orientation of the people doing the kissing on-screen.

The only people turning this "sexual" are those that consider it "icky".

Fair…

I’m just recognizing that opinions vary…not agreeing with them

 

[Dranth]

Contrary to what dead judges say…Disney doesn’t have a “mind and soul”…They are out for money.

If they make it…great…if they don’t…fire away on the failures

I don't think anyone is claiming otherwise. People were discussing that impact on some of these more modern movements on Disney's overall box office. I happen to think it isn't large enough to make something a bomb but it certainly exists.