Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[TalkingHead]

If we’re going by what the outrage artists say:

Elemental had the headline about “first gender-fluid(?) Pixar character” even though it was barely noticeable, and to be fair the voice artist promoted it that way online.

Wish had a woman of color protag, white villain, misandrist, Marxist message, etc.

Little Mermaid, yeah, we know about that, and Soul had the issue with Tina Fey’s voice.

I suppose Inside Out has sidestepped any controversy wrt racism issues, sexuality, gender critique. Which is kinda funny since it’s the puberty movie, you’d think it has the best case for actually addressing one or more of those.

 

[TalkingHead]

If Moana 2 does similar numbers, I’m wondering if Lion King will suffer from coming at the end of the year after a string of family movie hits. Will families show up regardless or at what point will they become more selective with their money?

 

[LSLS]

There’s an element of that for sure…

But I’ll say it again: it’s just low quality stuff that’s falling flat

Nobody should claim…”lightyear was good…but the word was out so the fringe killed it”

No…it was plodding…and long…and tried to reframe an old characters backstory.

That’s 3 strikes. The fact that gets greenlight for hundreds of millions of dollars is just insane.

Yeah, I have no doubt there are people who will not go for that reason. But I don't think the failures last year were billion dollar movies in 2017 before all this stuff started. Like you said, they were not good/wanted movies. Add in you need to spend $100 to go see it, and this is where we are. I know personally I am SUPER selective on movies in theaters now strictly because of price. If I spent $20 before and the movie was awful, oh well. 5 times the price? I better be sure I want to see it and that we will all enjoy it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

And Barbie? And did Wish have that? I mean, Lightyear bombed long before people knew of that scene either. I just don't think it's making that large a difference. It is for some, but I am far from convinced that is the reason Disney had such an awful last year.

Barbie wasn’t Disney. Disney is enemy number one in the entertainment industry because the overall goal of the hate network is seizing control of or coercing institutions involved in the education of young people. The motive is panic over a perceived inability to reproduce certain ideologies in the young.

Some major commentators did take a run at Barbie after it opened, but they hadn’t laid the necessary groundwork because of a focus on Disney and an inability to see what the film was going to be. After it became clear they weren’t going to be effective, they backed off. They need to maintain the illusion of strength at all costs.

Barbie is a great example of how little the assault has to do with the content of the film. I actually found Barbie speechy to a degree that damaged the narrative while the Disney films contained absolutely nothing “political.” That doesn’t really matter, however.

Your Lightyear timeline is way off. The assault on that film began well before its release. News of the same-sex couple leaked and the hate network launched a full court press. They had already begun an attack by that point because Tim Allen was replaced.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Yeah, I have no doubt there are people who will not go for that reason. But I don't think the failures last year were billion dollar movies in 2017 before all this stuff started. Like you said, they were not good/wanted movies. Add in you need to spend $100 to go see it, and this is where we are. I know personally I am SUPER selective on movies in theaters now strictly because of price. If I spent $20 before and the movie was awful, oh well. 5 times the price? I better be sure I want to see it and that we will all enjoy it.

No one is denying that there were a great many factors contributing to the failure of Disney’s 2023 slate, factors that interacted in complicated ways. Perceived quality certainly played a part. The dispute is whether the hate network had a significant impact (not the MOST significant - let’s say top 5). I’d argue that it’s naive at best, disingenuous at worst to look at the last several years and claim it didn’t.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, I have no doubt there are people who will not go for that reason. But I don't think the failures last year were billion dollar movies in 2017 before all this stuff started. Like you said, they were not good/wanted movies. Add in you need to spend $100 to go see it, and this is where we are. I know personally I am SUPER selective on movies in theaters now strictly because of price. If I spent $20 before and the movie was awful, oh well. 5 times the price? I better be sure I want to see it and that we will all enjoy it.

Some were boring and unnecessary…like little mermaid

Some were just disaster in a projector…like haunted mansion


Like it or not…you have to produce something that attracts interest. Not just sequels and rehash.

That doesn’t mean you can’t sprinkle it in…like inside out. It’s been enough time and what happens next? Is a draw there. Same as it was with incredibles and finding Nemo/dory

But you can’t throw remakes and canned sequels out at high volume.

The failure of late is on Disney…not the audience or some gremlins on the internet.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No one is denying that there were a great many factors contributing to the failure of Disney’s 2023 slate, factors that interacted in complicated ways. Perceived quality certainly played a part. The dispute is whether the hate network had a significant impact (not the MOST significant - let’s say top 5). I’d argue that it’s naive at best, disingenuous at worst to look at the last several years and claim it didn’t.

And here we go again…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney is enemy number one in the entertainment industry because the overall goal of the hate network is seizing control of or coercing institutions involved in the education of young people. The motive is panic over a perceived inability to reproduce certain ideologies in the young.

You can stop right there…it’s your mission statement.

Your suggestion is If Disney made Barbie…the exact same movie…it struggles?

BS. It was good…that’s why it hit.

 

[Casper Gutman]

You can stop right there…it’s your mission statement.

Your suggestion is If Disney made Barbie…the exact same movie…it struggles?

BS. It was good…that’s why it hit.

It was a pretty good movie that was massively overrated. In fact, Barbie is a great example of how external factors contribute to a film’s success - timing, promotion, social media “memefication” that is largely outside the studio’s control, etc. And yes, had the same film been released by Disney, the reception would have been markedly different. One has to be willfully ignorant of the news over the last several years to deny this.

You can acknowledge nuance and complexity without sacrificing the burning hatred of Iger and everything he touches that consumes your every waking hour.

 

[Disney Irish]

Honestly…that clown was just using them to drum up support and money in minutes 1-14…

And predictably…after the 15th minute expired it’s crickets

Wow…couldn’t see that coming

And yet the "base" fell for it hook, line, and sinker. One problem however, while his 15 minutes might be up that "base" is still ginned up for the cause. We'll see what happens in the medium to long term with that.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Just when you thought it was safe to read a thread again, the usual suspects come up with even more insipid and inane ways to try and defend bad output.

So anyone who doesn't like a movie that some of the movie experts in here like is now a member of "the hate network". And this alleged "network" has the power to influence tens of millions of people to not go watch a movie based on their word only.

"Hello in there, Cliff. Tell me - What color is the sky in your world?" - Dr. Frasier Crane

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm just not sure I'm convinced it's THAT large a group that it would significantly show up in the box office. I mean, if it was, why is Inside Out 2 blowing up? Why did Barbie (which had WAY more of that stuff than any Disney movie) do huge numbers? I don't think any of us are discounting it is there, and I doubt you'd get much argument that it's much louder than it used to be (heck I'd bet Walter and I are very much on your side of a lot of political stuff that we are not going to get into based on how he has posted in other topics). But I just can't get behind the idea that Disney has seen movies doing like half of normal is based on that. I do think people have had their trust in the brand eroded so that they will not blindly show up anymore. But I also think a large section of that is because of the stuff that is much more justifiable (bad movies/shows, perceived greediness, etc. Sorry, kind of lumping in their troubles at the parks as well). And I honestly think the price point at movies is a bigger thing than is made out to be as well. A lot of families can't afford to go to a movie each weekend. Or maybe not even once a month.

The issue is there is no absolutes in this conversation, its not just one thing over that thing, its a whole myriad of reasons and I'm sorry but quality issues is only a small part of that. Because if it was just quality issues, well quite frankly Disney would have taken a hit in the 2010s instead of ruling the box office for a decade.

And yes I think the price point of tickets is a factor, a larger factor than anyone here wants to really talk about. Its something I've said for years now but it fell on deaf ears. Its a part of the reason the box office is so depressed right now, and not just for Disney.

 

[erasure fan1]

I don't think any of us are discounting it is there, and I doubt you'd get much argument that it's much louder than it used to be

Agreed. The argument isn't it doesn't exist, and that seems to keep coming up. It's the overall impact on Disneys box-office that's the question. I firmly believe that there's a hate Disney campaign, I've said it on many many posts. My only contention is how much it impacts the numbers.

But I just can't get behind the idea that Disney has seen movies doing like half of normal is based on that. I do think people have had their trust in the brand eroded so that they will not blindly show up anymore. But I also think a large section of that is because of the stuff that is much more justifiable (bad movies/shows, perceived greediness, etc.

Again, I agree. The movies that had the bad box-offices, were not great films in my opinion. I completely see why they didn't do what they were expecting.

We saw this unwinding with Elemental. Once the word got out it was both good and I suspect staying in theatres for more than 30-45 day window.

Isn't that the bottom line of all this arguing? If lightyear or mermaid or haunted mansion, strange world... Were good movies, the noise doesn't really matter. I think that's the big issue here. People go to the theater and when the movie is just kind of meh or bad, you don't get that word of mouth. Mediocre output just pushes more people to wait for streaming. Good content rises to the top in most situations.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And yet the "base" fell for it hook, line, and sinker. One problem however, while his 15 minutes might be up that "base" is still ginned up for the cause. We'll see what happens in the medium to long term with that.

…If anyone ever claimed they were “bright”…all visible evidence is to the contrary

 

[Disney Irish]

Good content rises to the top in most situations.

And yet we have a movie like The Fall Guy, which by all measures is "good content" and should have been a hit, and it could barely rise above the bow. And before someone makes a comment, no that wasn't for political reasons.

So this idea that all it takes is for good content to be released and the audience will come flocking is bunk. Hollywood has been trying to crack the code for generations on what audiences want. And just when they think they crack the code the audience changes and you have what should be sure fire hits failing. Its making the whole industry question what the audience wants, and they really want to know....

What the Hell Do People Want Out of Movies?

‘The Fall Guy’ had all the makings of a massive summer blockbuster. So what went wrong? And why don’t audiences actually go to the sorts of movies they claim they want?

screencrush.com

 

[DKampy]

They had already begun an attack by that point because Tim Allen was replaced.

Which they claimed was because Tim Allen did not share the same beliefs as Disney despite he was the star of The Santa Clause which debuted soon after the film… shows how insane their narrative spin is… but as long as Their followers believe whatever they say

 

[DKampy]

And yet we have a movie like The Fall Guy, which by all measures is "good content" and should have been a hit, and it could barely rise above the bow. And before someone makes a comment, no that wasn't for political reasons.

So this idea that all it takes is for good content to be released and the audience will come flocking is bunk. Hollywood has been trying to crack the code for generations on what audiences want. And just when they think they crack the code the audience changes and you have what should be sure fire hits failing. Its making the whole industry question what the audience wants, and they really want to know....

What the Hell Do People Want Out of Movies?

‘The Fall Guy’ had all the makings of a massive summer blockbuster. So what went wrong? And why don’t audiences actually go to the sorts of movies they claim they want?

screencrush.com

The problem with The Fall Guy was the budget was too high.. Original Movies don’t usually make much more than 100 million domestic if they are good… yes it was based on an old 80’s series… but to most it was original….The original John Wick only made 43 million domestic

Well that and expectations were raised too high with it being the film that opened Summer…. It was originally Deadpool…. I think if both movies kept their release dates… people might be thinking differently on the films of 2024

 

[MagicMouseFan]

And yet we have a movie like The Fall Guy, which by all measures is "good content" and should have been a hit, and it could barely rise above the bow. And before someone makes a comment, no that wasn't for political reasons.

So this idea that all it takes is for good content to be released and the audience will come flocking is bunk. Hollywood has been trying to crack the code for generations on what audiences want. And just when they think they crack the code the audience changes and you have what should be sure fire hits failing. Its making the whole industry question what the audience wants, and they really want to know....

What the Hell Do People Want Out of Movies?

‘The Fall Guy’ had all the makings of a massive summer blockbuster. So what went wrong? And why don’t audiences actually go to the sorts of movies they claim they want?

screencrush.com

Don’t know if this helps..
My kids weren’t interested in seeing “Fall Guy” in the theater or at home. My wife didn’t want to see it in the theater but is interested once it’s available on a streaming platform for “free”. I only go to the theater if my kids or wife want to go, and I’m fine waiting a year to see it on a streaming platform.

So… I’m excited to go to the theater if my family is excited.

 

[LSLS]

I have no idea what the Fall Guy is? Maybe that's another point to consider. As people have left cable and commercials behind, and go to less movies, they don't see these previews as much. I think I said earlier, I had no idea Inside Out 2 was coming out as recently as a week before the release. I have no idea what Fall guy is, let alone that it's in theaters. I'm pretty sure I had no idea on the opening date for Wish either (outside of maybe on these forums). I wonder if there is something to the idea that maybe marketing of coming releases needs to change up some (or I'm just a wild outlier).

 

[brideck]

I have no idea what the Fall Guy is? Maybe that's another point to consider. As people have left cable and commercials behind, and go to less movies, they don't see these previews as much. I think I said earlier, I had no idea Inside Out 2 was coming out as recently as a week before the release. I have no idea what Fall guy is, let alone that it's in theaters. I'm pretty sure I had no idea on the opening date for Wish either (outside of maybe on these forums). I wonder if there is something to the idea that maybe marketing of coming releases needs to change up some (or I'm just a wild outlier).

Right, so that makes me ask the question where do you (and anyone else) get information about movies these days? And how can studios inject awareness of releases to that audience?

Personally, since I'm actively interested in movies, I follow a lot of studios/distributors on the flaming wreck of Twitter, so I get information presented to me on a platter. For example, I can tell you that Searchlight's releasing Kinds of Kindness soon (in NY/LA this weekend, wider next weekend), they just put out a teaser for Jesse Eisenberg's A Real Pain, due out this fall, and that Nightb***h is getting a TIFF premiere. And all of that is from stuff that's come across my feed in just the last 24 hours.