Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yet you wouldn’t stop going on about the supposedly objectionable gay themes of Strange World.

I don’t think he has a problem with the “themes”…just a hunch

 

[Casper Gutman]

I don’t think he has a problem with the “themes”…just a hunch

Read his posts. Don't be distracted by the cutesy tone.

I know it's important to you that you pretend the endless fight over Disney box office isn't political, but take a glance at who your allies are. Consider why a number of posters who've been largely on your side for a decade or more complaining relentlessly about the decline of the parks at every level, criticizing management, and urging folks to demand more out of the resort are telling you you're off base regarding the movie debate.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don’t think he has a problem with the “themes”…just a hunch

You would be wrong. See his posts above:

Yes, I found that inappropriate for a children's movie branded as Walt Disney Animation alongside Frozen or Peter Pan.

I don't find gay themes appropriate for children's movies branded Walt Disney Animation.

There are countless more statements of this type from him over in the Strange World thread.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Read his posts. Don't be distracted by the cutesy tone.

I know it's important to you that you pretend the endless fight over Disney box office isn't political, but take a glance at who your allies are. Consider why a number of posters who've been largely on your side for a decade or more complaining relentlessly about the decline of the parks at every level, criticizing management, and urging folks to demand more out of the resort are telling you you're off base regarding the movie debate.

That’s a whole lot out of your lower GI to put on my shoulders. Mostly because it’s wrong…but also because what I say has absolutely nothing to do with their box office struggles.

I didn’t start it…I can’t fix it. When i say what Disney is Doing wrong…nobody believes me cause I dare question them. When I joke…I’m dismissed because I’m not giving them “proper respect and consideration”.
It’s my lot in life.

What they’re doing isn’t working. The audience isn’t biting for a variety of reasons. Maybe people are just tired of their schtick? And it isn’t rampant racism, homophobia, sexism?
Or perhaps it’s just not “there” yet?
Do they have to wreck their entire studios to prove a point? Alter course? Make tweaks?

I dunno…honestly?

 

[Trauma]

That’s a whole lot out of your lower GI to put on my shoulders. Mostly because it’s wrong…but also because what I say has absolutely nothing to do with their box office struggles.

I didn’t start it…I can’t fix it. When i say what Disney is Doing wrong…nobody believes me cause I dare question them. When I joke…I’m dismissed because I’m not giving them “proper respect and consideration”.
It’s my lot in life.

What they’re doing isn’t working. The audience isn’t biting for a variety of reasons. Maybe people are just tired of their schtick? And it isn’t rampant racism, homophobia, sexism?
Or perhaps it’s just not “there” yet?
Do they have to wreck their entire studios to prove a point? Alter course? Make tweaks?

I dunno…honestly?

Did you ever see the show Stranger Things?

It’s on Netflix.

Very popular.

It has different races, sexualities, and a strong female lead.

Now why is it that show can be so popular, yet everything Disney makes is getting dumpstered?

When Disney figures it out maybe they can get back to making money.

 

[DKampy]

Apparently. @LittleBuford remembered it and pulled it out of thin air about 30 minutes ago...



I don't find gay themes appropriate for children's movies branded Walt Disney Animation. I think movies should be rated PG-13 before they bring up sexuality of any kind, gay or straight.

But you know what I do find appropriate???

Starting the Cocktail Hour promptly at 7:30pm this time of year. So, you'll all have to excuse me...

So you dislike any disney love story???… I don’t believe sex was discussed in Strange World

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

It's weird to dismiss the necessity of actors and writers compared to people who are "essential".

I'd wager that the vast majority of people rely on television and movies for their daily entertainment.

Unless you're rich and constantly travelling or something, television is something most people use every day.

How would people fill their time if every entertainer stopped producing material?

 

[DKampy]

Yes, I found that inappropriate for a children's movie branded as Walt Disney Animation alongside Frozen or Peter Pan.

If Strange World had been rated PG-13 and not aimed at young children, I would have no problem with it.

Similarly, I fully expect Barbie to have gay jokes and gay characters. But Barbie is rated PG-13 so that's fine, and I can't wait to see it.

I have not seen Barbie yet, but I don’t believe the film was rated PG-13 for having gay characters… it was more for sexual innuendo(which you can clearly see in the trailers)Strange World did not have this…

 

[Disney Analyst]

It's weird to dismiss the necessity of actors and writers compared to people who are "essential".

I'd wager that the vast majority of people rely on television and movies for their daily entertainment.

Unless you're rich and constantly travelling or something, television is something most people use every day.

How would people fill their time if every entertainer stopped producing material?

This quote was on the old $20 Canadian bill.

“Could we ever know each other in the slightest without the arts?” - Gabrielle Roy.

I refuse to accept the idea that arts do not matter. That movies, paintings, music, theatre, etc. is dispensable, pointless, unnecessary.

Yes of course, when times are tough, people will cut out activities like theatre, or movies. But that doesn’t mean they are not important.

They play an important part in our culture and society.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It's weird to dismiss the necessity of actors and writers compared to people who are "essential".

I'd wager that the vast majority of people rely on television and movies for their daily entertainment.

Unless you're rich and constantly travelling or something, television is something most people use every day.

How would people fill their time if every entertainer stopped producing material?

Fortunately we have YouTube now so even without Hollywood we have an endless supply of new content to watch.

Outside of sports I doubt I watch an hour of tv a week, TV/cable just isn’t as big a deal as it used to be. I will miss new movies though, I enjoy movies (via streaming) far more than any show on TV right now.

 

[Disney Irish]

Well despite some posters being the pulse of the "average American" saying they'll still go to movies even with the strike, the actual trades are reporting a potential box office mess when it comes to the late summer, fall, and winter 2023 releases -

How The SAG-AFTRA Strike Could Upend This Year’s Movie Release Schedule & Box Office

How The SAG-AFTRA Strike Could Upend This Year's Movie Release Schedule & Box Office

deadline.com

No Stars, No Red Carpets: How Hollywood Strikes Could Disrupt the Summer Box Office

Without actors to promote upcoming blockbusters, will the SAG strike affect summer movie season?

variety.com

With an already shaky box office, 2023 didn't need this and could be seeing a huge drop off......

 

[celluloid]

Once again the fact that MI:7 budget may or may not include production costs for MI:8 does preclude it from being a potential box office failure due to that budget. MI:7 still has to get over $800M just to breakeven because of that budget, which isn't looking good so far.


We'll know closer to when MI:8 comes out how much its budget was. But again it doesn't matter in terms of MI:7s budget and box office performance.

But yes what we're talking about is the industry wide issue of high budgets and low box office.


Again no one is saying Disney isn't having more box office issues than other studios, they are. Logically speaking since Disney is something like 37% of the marketplace now in terms of box office it stands to reason they of course would have a larger share of the issues related to budgets and lower box office. But the point being made is that its an industry wide issue, all studios are having the same problems whether Disney is having a larger share of them or not.

If you just lift the Disney hate filled glasses you have on for just a second, you'd see what is being discussed about a wide spread industry issue is true.

I have never stated it was just a Disney problem. But since Indy cost about the same as MI7 let's look at it this way.
For simplicity
What is a bigger loss,
A movie that cost 295 million only likely ending with making 170 or less.
Or one that cost 291 and makes closer to 200 million?
International is still going ot favor MI7 over Indy 5.
Disney has a bigger issue.
Their latest 150 million plus marketing loss is coming out next week.


They have more to lose because they primarily do tentpoles. They could have a lot of mid hits in there.

Not sure why you keep targeting me when I said this is Disney hurting more in the lean years. I never said they were going to be the ONLY HURTING.

Their animation movies should be something saving them as an easy win for families, but they even inflate those and produce less people pleasing content. Pussnboots, Minions sequels and Mario all stomped Disney's animations flops and mehs.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I don't find gay themes appropriate for children's movies branded Walt Disney Animation. I think movies should be rated PG-13 before they bring up sexuality of any kind, gay or straight.

Have you ever at any point made a post to complain that a Disney movie with heterosexuality in it was rated G?

Or did Strange World just happen to be the first time?

 

[Disney Irish]

I have never stated it was just a Disney problem. But since Indy cost about the same as MI7 let's look at it this way.
For simplicity
What is a bigger loss,
A movie that cost 295 million only likely ending with making 170 or less.
Or one that cost 295 and makes closer to 200 million?
International is still going ot favor MI7 over Indy 5.

International though is where studios make LESS money due to getting less percentage of the box office. So if Indy5 and MI:7 do the same worldwide, but Indy5 has better domestic, then it ends up losing less than MI:7. Not saying that will happen, but just saying it has "international in its favor" is not helping your argument.

Point is both are going to end up costing their respective studios lots of money, how much remains to be seen.

Disney has a bigger issue.

We've all pretty much come to a consensus that this is the case. Yay, Disney is having a rougher time than most other studios at the box office, we all agree. Though WB wishes they could be Disney right now, they are having a worse time overall, but that is a different story. However as has been discussed this isn't happening in a vacuum and so its time to move on from this point.

Their latest 150 million plus marketing loss is coming out next week.

Well see how HM does next week.

They have more to lose because they primarily do tentpoles. They could have a lot of mid hits in there.

Once again yes we're pretty much all in a agreement on this.

Not sure why you keep targeting me when I said this is Disney hurting more in the lean years. I never said they were going to be the ONLY HURTING.

I'm not "targeting" you, you quoted me and I responded to you. Its as simple as that. This is a discussion forum, we're all discussing this topic.

Their animation movies should be something saving them as an easy win for families, but they even inflate those and produce less people pleasing content. Pussnboots, Minions sequels and Mario all stomped Disney's animations flops and mehs.

Once again yes we're all in a agreement on this.

So yes, we're all on the same page, Disney is having a rougher time at the box office than other studios due to their releasing more higher budget tent pole films that haven't gotten the audiences flocking to the theaters.

 

[celluloid]

International though is where studios make LESS money due to getting less percentage of the box office. So if Indy5 and MI:7 do the same worldwide, but Indy5 has better domestic, then it ends up losing less than MI:7. Not saying that will happen, but just saying it has "international in its favor" is not helping your argument.

Just because they make less does not mean it is worthless. And it is very much in favor for MI7. It has already surpassed what Indy 5 made overseas. That will not be different. It can't be undone. M7 will make much more overseas than Indy.

MI7 will certainly(it would have to lose all leg momentum) pass Indy 5 domestically.


No goalposts or anything ever moved which you may try to spin next.

Disney, is hurting far more here.

We all agree, but above you kept putting words in my mouth when you said its an industry wide problem.

The problem is only dire for some studios. Disney being the most.


WB will not have to buy out Hulu from Comcast's share with billions of dollars as they release a tentpole overinflated budget every few months.

 

[Disney Irish]

Just because they make less does not mean it is worthless. And it is very disportionate in favor for MI7. It has already surpassed what Indy 5 made overseas. That will not be different.

MI7 will certainly(it would have to lose all leg momentum) pass Indy 5 domestically.

No one said anything about worthless, but making less international doesn't help it being profitable.

Also MI:7 is losing all of its premium screens this week, where all the real money is made domestically. So its going to be very hard to come back domestically when starting from behind as it opened less domestically than Indy5. Not saying it won't do it, but it has an uphill battle, and it has so much going against it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I have never stated it was just a Disney problem. But since Indy cost about the same as MI7 let's look at it this way.
For simplicity
What is a bigger loss,
A movie that cost 295 million only likely ending with making 170 or less.
Or one that cost 291 and makes closer to 200 million?
International is still going ot favor MI7 over Indy 5.
Disney has a bigger issue.
Their latest 150 million plus marketing loss is coming out next week.


They have more to lose because they primarily do tentpoles. They could have a lot of mid hits in there.

Not sure why you keep targeting me when I said this is Disney hurting more in the lean years. I never said they were going to be the ONLY HURTING.

Their animation movies should be something saving them as an easy win for families, but they even inflate those and produce less people pleasing content. Pussnboots, Minions sequels and Mario all stomped Disney's animations flops and mehs.

Elemental now seems likely to wind up with a global box office very close to Puss. Elemental had a higher budget, of course.

The continuing desire to see Pixar become like Illuminations is madness. Pixar and, to a lesser extent Dreamworks, make very high quality animation. Illuminations does not. It's like wishing all Pixar films would be more like Planes.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Fortunately we have YouTube now so even without Hollywood we have an endless supply of new content to watch.

Outside of sports I doubt I watch an hour of tv a week, TV/cable just isn’t as big a deal as it used to be. I will miss new movies though, I enjoy movies (via streaming) far more than any show on TV right now.

I have a VERY wide definition of what is art. Comics, B-movies, video games, theme park rides - all art.

Most of YouTube is not art. It's content. Or voyeurism.

There's some great stuff in there. I love Red Letter Media. But YouTube is more of a vast wasteland then TV ever was.

 

[celluloid]

Elemental now seems likely to wind up with a global box office very close to Puss. Elemental had a higher budget, of course.

The continuing desire to see Pixar become like Illuminations is madness. Pixar and, to a lesser extent Dreamworks, make very high quality animation. Illuminations does not. It's like wishing all Pixar films would be more like Planes.

Storytelling I get the critique. But budgetwise is just silly. Mario's animation was dang excellent, and that is the Illumination story I found least interesting.

Money is also choices. Indy's 5 CGI typically looked awful. Cost is not always necessary and actors are sometimes getting 20 million to appear or star in films.

Minions overload asside, the first Despicable Me was a great story.

But again, its subjective altogether.

Box office wise. Disney's animated hits have been not great. Elemental is not going to surpass Pussnboots domestically, and international according to some sound like pennies on the dollar to share(its not, but it is less)

I don't think we should be relieved, but rather more to the point that Disney nearing dire when Elemental, a Pixar original is earned less or near to a sequal to a spin off from 2011(It was the best the character Pussnboots and story have ever been though)that also went to streaming quickly from theaters in the fall while Elemental had Fourth of July and all of summer.
Puss also had a production cost of 90 million with Elemental being 200. That's not just a higher budget by a bit, but more than double. It likely had a larger marketing budget too.
Side note, I thought Sing was ok, but Sing 2 in both animation and story were pretty fun if you can get past the jukebox musical aspect.

It just tells you how dire everything is when we can even be happy it is close to that.

It does not have to be just Universal either. While Disney owns Marvel...

Sony Animation knocked storytelling and animation domestic box office out of even Disney's live action marvel releases this year with Across the Spiderverse. It only had a budget of 100 million.

Sign of the times.

Wish better be good for the company because Frozen 3 and Zootopia 2 will be the next things to really look forward to for success.

 

[TP2000]

This quote was on the old $20 Canadian bill.

“Could we ever know each other in the slightest without the arts?” - Gabrielle Roy.

I refuse to accept the idea that arts do not matter. That movies, paintings, music, theatre, etc. is dispensable, pointless, unnecessary.

Yes of course, when times are tough, people will cut out activities like theatre, or movies. But that doesn’t mean they are not important.

They play an important part in our culture and society.

Covid changed all that.

5 years ago I would have said that modern America could not be modern America without Disneyland. And yet Disneyland was forced by the state government to remain closed for 13 months. And, in the government's defense, we all survived and are all still here to talk about it.

Disneyland is Non-Essential, and was branded as such by government officials. Hollywood is also Non-Essential and can stop all production for the forseeable future without much impact. And thank God for YouTube, which has replaced what modern Hollywood used to produce for me from the 1960's until about 2015.