Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[TalkingHead]

Wonka’s an interesting case. It’s made good money for 2023/2024 but I haven’t heard anything about its musical qualities (i.e. are any of the songs showing signs of popularity, usually the hallmark of a culturally relevant musical?).

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Wonka’s an interesting case. It’s made good money for 2023/2024 but I haven’t heard anything about its musical qualities (i.e. are any of the songs showing signs of popularity, usually the hallmark of a culturally relevant musical?).

That the score was totally ignored by the Academy despite the timing of its release, and mostly good notices, says a lot.

I'm also not getting the songs recommended on YouTube and don't know what kind of views they're getting (a good metric of general popularity).

I would say that making over $600 million worldwide for this kind of movie is excellent, and not just by 2023 standards. It's far more than The Greatest Showman, which was considered a smash for the genre (but had a more popular soundtrack).

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Wonka’s an interesting case. It’s made good money for 2023/2024 but I haven’t heard anything about its musical qualities (i.e. are any of the songs showing signs of popularity, usually the hallmark of a culturally relevant musical?).

Personally speaking, the opening song was the only one I listened to again after watching the movie.

The music was fine. The songs were good but not great. They served their purpose adequately and were then immediately forgotten.

 

[brideck]

Did you at least find my chart adjusted for inflation I made and pasted here for you helpful?

Absolutely not, as I already stated in a semi-recent reply. Inflation's only useful when trying to directly compare the gross of two movies across the gulf of time, which doesn't have anything useful to say in this case (and rarely does anyway except in the case of some kind of stupid fandom ****-measuring contest). We're measuring these movies against their respective budgets, etc., correct?

I've been comparing them just to show the relative trajectories over the course of their releases, and to show if Poor Things is seemingly on the right track or not. The answer has been a resounding yes every time I've updated the chart. Unless you think $92m worldwide (and counting) is somehow not good enough in this case. Sure beats the $2m you were sure it had bombed with in December.

Updated through the weekend:

ODR: 24/41

 

[Disney Irish]

Wonka’s an interesting case. It’s made good money for 2023/2024 but I haven’t heard anything about its musical qualities (i.e. are any of the songs showing signs of popularity, usually the hallmark of a culturally relevant musical?).

It hasn't had much impact in the overall music scene, but its had some success with Pure Imagination on the Tiktok charts.

Here is a breakdown from Billboard on its musical impact -

Sweet Success: A History of Willy Wonka Music on Billboard Charts

Willy Wonka has charted lots of songs and ear candy on Billboard’s surveys.

www.billboard.com

 

[brideck]

If Wish had just bombed like it did without Wonka and Migration coming along a few weeks later, someone could make a reasonable claim that families don't take their kids to the movies now like they did before Covid.

But this is actually at least a little true. If you do something crazy like calculate the number of tickets sold (using avg prices for the respective years) for Frozen II in the holiday season of 2019 and compare it with the combined number of tickets sold for this season's holiday fare (Wonka, Trolls, Migration, Wish) you come up with 25-30% of the 2019 family moviegoers having now gone AWOL from theaters. Did Wish finish last out of this year's movies? Definitely, but at least some of that has to do with other studios not just conceding the reduced post-pandemic family movie market to Disney anymore at the holidays. The only "competitors" in 2019 were Spies in Disguise (which was a 20th Century movie) and the amazing Playmobil movie.

Heck, the #1 movie over the holidays this year wasn't even a family movie. It was the Hunger Games prequel, starring that known box office poison, er, sweetheart, er... tell me what to think again?

 

[BrianLo]

I'm somewhat curious how Content Sales and Licensing is fully reported and it's a bit of a unique time to witness that next quarter. I assume they declare the production budget at the time of the films release? So theoretically we won't have much in terms of negative pressure this forthcoming quarter since nothing is really being released. Just the marketing costs of the Pixar films theatrical releases. Likewise we have very insignificant box office performance going on.

So everything it captures is mostly going to be post-theatrical performances of the films already out.

If it's significantly negative, well then that's not how it is reported after all.


Edit: Yes I think that's how it works, as the Studio segment was still reporting significant profits during the Pandemic closures. Though it was reported as a different line item before restructuring. To some posters points I think post theatrical matters, but it is not clearly covering up the totality of the poor 2023 performance. They are down 540 million (currently, which isn't the billion+ touted), but that also might get eroded further as licensing is ongoing.

 

[TalkingHead]

I would say that making over $600 million worldwide for this kind of movie is excellent, and not just by 2023 standards. It's far more than The Greatest Showman, which was considered a smash for the genre (but had a more popular soundtrack).

I was thinking in terms of IP star vehicle tentpoles where $600m is respectable but not zeitgeisty.

Interestingly, looks like La La Land in 2016 performed almost identically when adjusted for inflation. Crazy that an original property like that could make that kind of money less than a decade ago.

 

[Ghost93]

So Madame Web flopped this past weekend. It was a terrible movie, although I personally enjoyed it due to unintentionally hilarious dialogue and Dakota Johnson's "I don't want to be here making this movie" performance.

While it is a Sony film and not a Disney film, I think bad superhero movies like Madame Web will further contribute to superhero fatigue and people turning against the genre. And I doubt the average moviegoer knows the difference between the Sony Marvel movies and the MCU.

So while Deadpool 3 is the only "official" MCU movie in 2024 and Disney is mostly taking a break, the presence of movies like Madame Web, Kraven the Hunter and Venom 3 will make general audiences feel like there hasn't been a break from Marvel.

 

[Miss Rori]

I would say that making over $600 million worldwide for this kind of movie is excellent, and not just by 2023 standards. It's far more than The Greatest Showman, which was considered a smash for the genre (but had a more popular soundtrack).

I'm very fond of the Wonka songs, but it is an old-fashioned theatrical score that was clearly not written to spawn pop hits, YouTube covers, America's Got Talent performances, or be licensed out to commercials. (It's way closer to a Sherman Brothers score than a Lin-Manuel Miranda one.) The songs are too specific to be easily plucked out of context, and there's no barn-burner solo in the "Let It Go" mold, so I'm not surprised they don't get talked up much. But I think that's better than the Wish songs being talked up for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Scrub, scrub!

 

[_caleb]

While it is a Sony film and not a Disney film, I think bad superhero movies like Madame Web will further contribute to superhero fatigue and people turning against the genre.

This is what I think they need to figure out: how to make "super-hero films" not a genre. There is enough great content in the Marvel universe that they should be making all kinds of content: thrillers, comedies, westerns, heists, crime/procedurals, action, mystery, fantasy, sci-fi, horror, etc. I know they've tried some of these with varying degrees of success, but they always seem to want to return to the Avengers formula and in my opinion, it's holding them back.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

So while Deadpool 3 is the only "official" MCU movie in 2024 and Disney is mostly taking a break, the presence of movies like Madame Web, Kraven the Hunter and Venom 3 will make general audiences feel like there hasn't been a break from Marvel.

There's also new Marvel content on Disney+ this year too, so not really of a break.

 

[DKampy]

Poor Things snagged 5 BAFTA awards including 1 for lead actress… Emma Stone

 

[TP2000]

So Madame Web flopped this past weekend. It was a terrible movie, although I personally enjoyed it due to unintentionally hilarious dialogue and Dakota Johnson's "I don't want to be here making this movie" performance.

You are very kind to call Madame Web's box office performance merely a "flop". Someone appreciates it, I'm sure.

While it is a Sony film and not a Disney film, I think bad superhero movies like Madame Web will further contribute to superhero fatigue and people turning against the genre. And I doubt the average moviegoer knows the difference between the Sony Marvel movies and the MCU.

I was certainly confused, until @MisterPenguin provided me a bullet list of explanations and legal reasons why/how Sony and Marvel handle Spiderman stuff. I appreciated it, and it makes more sense now, at least legally if not artistically.

Spiderman has a D Ticket ride at DCA's Marvel Avengers Campus, but Madame Web isn't mentioned there in the land. But why not, she's branded as a Marvel product. It's weird. And who would think Madame Web was not a Marvel product when it's branded as Marvel?

 

[TP2000]

USAToday, the official newspaper of awful waiting areas, declares Madame Web a "bomb" in its headline, and a "Marvel character" in the first paragraph. So it's not just us that's confused about Marvel's products versus Sony's movies.

'Bob Marley: One Love' overperforms at No. 1, while 'Madame Web' bombs at box office

"Spider-Man" spinoff "Madame Web" had a disastrous box-office debut while the musical biopic "Bob Marley: One Love" beat expectations.

www.usatoday.com

 

[BuddyThomas]

Not exactly. "Post-theatrical" would include some things that are not "direct-to-consumer." These typically involve getting money from middle-men, who then make money by screening the film for their own customers. Many of these are drying up as major sources of revenue, but they include:

1. Home Entertainment: DVDs, Blu-rays, and digital downloads/rentals through iTunes, Amazon Prime Video, Google Play, etc.
2. Streaming Services: Licensing deals with non-Disney streaming platforms such as Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, and a bunch you've probably never heard of.
3. Television Syndication: licensing to linear networks for broadcast, either on cable channels or through syndication deals with local stations.
4. Merchandising: toys, clothing, video games, board games, gifts, decor, etc.
5. International Distribution: released in theaters in other countries after its initial run.
6. Ancillary Markets: Airline, cruise ships, hotel screenings, educational screenings, and other non-traditional distribution channels.
7. On-Demand Services, Pay-per-view: On-demand rental or purchase through cable and satellite providers.
8. Licensing and Royalties: Revenue can also come from licensing the movie for use in other media, such as YouTube videos, music samples, books, or stage adaptations.
9. Releases in Other Formats: IMAX, 3D, special editions, etc.

Direct-to-Consumer, on the other hand, is when there's no middle man, and Disney sells a film directly to the consumer. Disney is working to develop this as a business in Disney+, Hulu, ESPN, etc., and did invest boatloads of money into it as they work to make it a profitable and sustainable business.

Disney+ is on track to become profitable this year as they continue to reduce spending, raise prices, and sell ads, and they've yet to roll out additional services like games, gambling, and shopping, etc. that are sure to bring in a lot of revenue.

Oh, you’re posting those pesky facts again.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Poor Things snagged 5 BAFTA awards including 1 for lead actress… Emma Stone

It’s her or Lily Gladstone for the Oscar.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Wonka’s an interesting case. It’s made good money for 2023/2024 but I haven’t heard anything about its musical qualities (i.e. are any of the songs showing signs of popularity, usually the hallmark of a culturally relevant musical?).

Musically, it’s a problem if the best song in the film is Pure Imagination, written decades before the rest of the score, almost all of which was totally forgettable. It was still a fun movie.

 

[Disney Irish]

You are very kind to call Madame Web's box office performance merely a "flop". Someone appreciates it, I'm sure.



I was certainly confused, until @MisterPenguin provided me a bullet list of explanations and legal reasons why/how Sony and Marvel handle Spiderman stuff. I appreciated it, and it makes more sense now, at least legally if not artistically.

Spiderman has a D Ticket ride at DCA's Marvel Avengers Campus, but Madame Web isn't mentioned there in the land. But why not, she's branded as a Marvel product. It's weird. And who would think Madame Web was not a Marvel product when it's branded as Marvel?

That is not even an official title card for the film. It has Marvel Studios logo which is not involved and has never been involved with Madam Web, and isn’t seen anywhere during the opening of the film. So it’s fake, probably made by someone on Reddit to troll people.

And while the Madam Web character might be an overall Marvel character it doesn’t mean she deserves to be in Avengers Campus.