Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Yes, just as brief as the split-second kiss in Lightyear that, according to you, caused parents such consternation.

To be fair, the 2SLGBTQQIA+ representation in Lightyear versus Elemental seems to be quite different.

I assume the Lesbian in Lightyear had actual dialogue and had at least a small amount of character development given to her, as she appeared at least a few times throughout the movie? It was at least explained out loud that she had a "wife", was it not? Or was the kiss just left open ended and only adults in the audience made the assumption they were Lesbians? (Perhaps by just having both ladies wear golf visors a lot and references to their softball league or upcoming plans for Dinah Shore Weekend?)

Whereas the Lesbian in Elemental apparently had no dialogue, she was entirely silent, and was only on screen for a moment.

However they did it, Pixar got little media attention for having a silent, background Lesbian in Elemental. The only media stories I could find in a 10 second Google search were from the gay press who was upset at how minor and silent the 2SLGBTQQIA+ representation in Elemental was. So Pixar upset the gays this time in '23, after upsetting the parents in '22.

 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
"Anyway, that’s my little sib, Lake. And her girlfriend, Ghibli."

Oh, yikes. That seems particularly pandering and pointless. No wonder the gays were mad.

In my Google scan, that Lake character originally had a voice actress who recorded actual dialogue. But it got cut. 🤔

Box Office is out for Wednesday. Wish is still a bomb, and Poor Things seems on track to lose at least $20 Million for Searchlight. (Poor Things had a $35 Million production budget, maybe $5 Million on marketing, needs $80 Million globally to break even).

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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
It is an interesting conversation as I never hear those that support having gay characters in movies targeting children make the case that it will INCREASE box office results in markets around the world (especially with over a billion Catholics being in traditional key Disney theatrical markets).
Perhaps because we're not primarily concerned with profits. I'm a fan, not an accountant.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
Relevant to discussions in this thread:
Summary: next year is going to be worse than this year which was worse than last year. Bleak times ahead for the theatrical movie business. The list of potential $100m titles has a lot of wishful thinking.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Relevant to discussions in this thread:
Summary: next year is going to be worse than this year which was worse than last year. Bleak times ahead for the theatrical movie business. The list of potential $100m titles has a lot of wishful thinking.

There needs to be lots of layoffs in Burbank and Emeryville (which should be moved south to Burbank anyway).

In addition to slashing budgets by half and crossing fingers those cheaper movies barely break even, there needs to be a dramatic reduction in staff employed in Burbank. I just don't know how you can justify it based on the actual results of 2023, and the slim calendar of releases for 2024 and 2025.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Is there an industry accepted term to describe a very expensive movie that lost $100 Million? If it's not "flop", then what is it? The phrase "100 Million Dollars Short of Breaking Even" is kinder, but doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. :)
Yes, its called a Financial Disappointment.

The issue with Flop is that its thrown around way too much to describe too many things that its lost its meaning. In the era of huge mega budgets a movie can do both critically and financially well overall but still lose money due to its high budget, this is exactly what happened with TLM.

So the term you're looking for is Financial Disappointment.
 

Miss Rori

Well-Known Member
I don't think Disney's recent movies are all that woke (not that there would be anything wrong if they were), but I think people have the perception that Disney movies are because so much of the marketing and fluffy pre-release articles focus on the importance of representation. This creates the perception that these films are "good for you" homework rather than just fun films in their own right.
This is an excellent point. All Disney corporate's self-satisfied crowing over "representation" does is upset ultra-conservative types and annoy people who do appreciate meaningful inclusion of marginalized groups. A friend of mine calls Disney's approach "diversity crumbs": most of the time, the movies aren't actually about the characters' specific experiences as people who are nonwhite, disabled, queer, etc. -- and that's assuming that the characters are even important to the story to begin with. Remember the big deals made about Lefou in the Beauty and the Beast remake or the support group participant in Avengers: Endgame? A casual kiss between secondary and tertiary characters in Lightyear was treated as the end of the world.

As one critic noted, it's nice that Wish includes a disabled character -- who is also a girl of color and heavyset -- in Dahlia, but why isn't she the lead instead of generically princess-y quirky Asha? I can't help but take that thought further and think of how much more interesting a story about whose wishes can and can't be realized would be with a disabled character as the lead. What was Dahlia's wish going to be anyway? Was she okay with her condition or might she have hoped for a cure? How would that affect her finding out about King Magnifico not being completely honest about what becomes of the wishes? How would it affect her challenging him?

But to write a story that would sensitively depict such a character and questions would take more effort than Disney is willing to make these days, especially because Dahlia wouldn't be seen as especially "toyetic". (Yes, they did make some dolls/figures for her, but Asha has way more merch.) No, a character who is disabled or queer or (sometimes, though not as often nowadays as leads become more racially varied) of color only gets to be the pretty girl's sidekick. And not even the primary one, in favor of a baby goat.

EDIT: Disney's caught between a rock and a hard place. I suspect they would be far more appreciated by many people if they were to truly center nonwhite, queer, disabled, etc. characters in (some of! it doesn't have to be all!) their films and shows (Black Panther's success speaks to the potential of that, as does that of the Spider-Verse films and The Owl House) rather than throw crumbs. Because taking such a stand does risk offending so many other people -- even more than they're already offended by the crumbs -- and they're throwing too much money around on these films not to try and appeal to them too, crumbs it is and will be, even though that's clearly becoming a diminishing returns approach in these polarized times.

I think about how nobody at WB made a big deal about how racially diverse the casting in Wonka is; sure the hero is Caucasian, but there are a lot of supporting roles, and among them are multiple characters of color -- heroic and villainous. They get to be funny, menacing, and/or sweet, all of them are memorable, and Wonka's relationship with Noodle (the orphan girl) in particular is a crucial emotional throughline that's very well-written and acted.
 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
Relevant to discussions in this thread:
Summary: next year is going to be worse than this year which was worse than last year. Bleak times ahead for the theatrical movie business. The list of potential $100m titles has a lot of wishful thinking.
Yep, posted similar to this last week but got push back.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
There needs to be lots of layoffs in Burbank and Emeryville (which should be moved south to Burbank anyway).

In addition to slashing budgets by half and crossing fingers those cheaper movies barely break even, there needs to be a dramatic reduction in staff employed in Burbank. I just don't know how you can justify it based on the actual results of 2023, and the slim calendar of releases for 2024 and 2025.
They have already laid off over 7K people, a majority of them from the Studios side.
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
At the time Guardians was released it was a surprise by mostly everyone. I am not changing my argument. Today is a lot different because we had so many iconic characters in the MCU. Now, Disney switched to the M-She-U and the collective audience (including women) is not attending. That is a problem.

Again, Guardians were “D” level characters but not anymore. The story, character development and execution elevated these characters much higher now.

Hey you changed your argument and got caught but it's ok as it was weak to begin with and didn't get any better.

And the only problem I see is hearing an adult use the tern, "M-She-U". It shows how that you are bothered and possibly even threatened by strong women characters.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Looking at it from a purely financial standpoint (and I understand it is hard for many posting here to do), if Disney wants to alienate a significant portion of the global audience with this strategy, it will have to dramatically alter its production budgets, marketing campaigns, and global theatrical footprint.

"Strange World" isn't "Bottoms". "Strange World" needs several hundred million dollars of box office to drive a substantial return on that investment (not just break even) and I never see anybody making the claim that having a central character being gay (voiced by a transvestite (or replace with current, more fashionable term)) is driving MORE families to the theater.

Agreed to all that. Yet again, we have the classic Bud Lite Alissa Heinerscheid conundrum... We don't like our longtime customers any more and they are embarrassing to us socially and professionally among our Harvard educated peers. And so we want to ditch our old customers for new and hipper customers, but for every 100 old and unhip customers we chased off, we only gained 10 new hip ones to replace them. :banghead:

And just for giggles, here's the data on Strange World vs. Bottoms. Both films lost huge amounts of money, even though the budgets were dramatically different at only $11 Million for Bottoms and a $135 Million budget for Strange World.

With this level of global consumer demand, in order for Strange World to break even it would have required a production budget of $25 Million and a marketing budget of $10 Million. And in order for Bottoms to break even it would have required a production budget of $5 Million and a marketing budget of $2 Million.

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Disney Irish

Premium Member
I agree with you BUT the marketing, interviews with the actors (including directors) and headlines discuss the agenda. TLM and the Marvels are two movies that no one wanted. People are done with remakes and the Marvels were three characters either people did not know or again did not want. They are D level characters.
The entire MCU is made up of characters that many in the public didn't know or didn't want, all, not one were A list characters to begin with. So you're argument here doesn't hold water in general based on the success of the MCU.

I think what you really mean to say is that The Marvels told a story that many didn't find compelling enough to go to theaters to see. And while I personally enjoyed it, I can see that being the case for many casual fans.
 

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