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Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs
- Thread starter Disney Analyst
- Start date
TP2000
Well-Known Member
It seems we are hung up on semantics, and some people are offended with the word "flop" being used to describe a movie that lost $100 Million for its studio, as The Little Mermaid did.
The Little Mermaid lost $100 Million, and Wish is now on track to lose just over $200 Million. Both of those scenarios are financially disastrous, but one is doubly more disastrous than the other.
Is there an industry accepted term to describe a very expensive movie that lost $100 Million? If it's not "flop", then what is it? The phrase "100 Million Dollars Short of Breaking Even" is kinder, but doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Why would I be offended given that I’m perfectly willing to use the word of Wish? It’s not a question of hurt feelings, but of semantic aptness.It seems we are hung up on semantics, and some people are offended with the word "flop" being used to describe a movie that lost $100 Million for its studio, as The Little Mermaid did.
The Little Mermaid lost $100 Million, and Wish is now on track to lose just over $200 Million. Both of those scenarios are financially disastrous, but one is doubly more disastrous than the other.
Is there an industry accepted term to describe a very expensive movie that lost $100 Million? If it's not "flop", then what is it? The phrase "100 Million Dollars Short of Breaking Even" is kinder, but doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I much prefer the other 1963 Liz Taylor/Richard Burton movie, The VIPs. It also benefits from a young Maggie Smith stealing the show in the final scenes of the movie. The movie is about a rag-tag collection of VIPs stuck in a London airport VIP lounge due to heavy fog, and it's fabulous.
I've seen Cleopatra a few times over the decades, and I'm not opposed to it. But The VIPs is better, in my opinion.
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Putting aside the core issue, we still don’t seem to have a real definition of the insidious “Agenda.” What 2023 Disney release featured a LGBTQ character? “The Agenda” seems to be bigger then that…
Phroobar
Well-Known Member
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I posed a similar question six months ago in the Snow White thread and was met largely with silence. I don’t think you’ll fare much better here.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I was using "we" to refer to the happy little forum chatter here amongst all us friends, not just you and me.
I really would love to hear from someone in the movie industry what they call a movie that loses $100 Million. Is that a "flop", or is there some financial goal that must be hit to move from "flop" to "bomb"?
I would consider The Little Mermaid to be a flop, and Wish was a bomb. ("Bomb" seems to outrank a mere "flop" in my mind) Wish was a mega-bomb really, due to the cultural importance the once invincible Disney applied to it as it's 100th Anniversary mega-movie. That immediately bombed globally. That's not just financially painful, it's culturally significant for Disney, humiliating for them as a company, and should be sending off major alarm bells in all the Burbank executive offices this month.
Flop. Bomb. Are they synonyms? Is there an industry accepted way to distinguish between those two words? I'd love to know.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
I don't know of one. I'd bet two churros that originally Wish was supposed to have an 2SLGBTQQIA+ main character, but after 2022's double box office disasters of Lightyear and Strange World, it was edited out and removed.
Or at least that's what Disney studio executives were bragging about in interviews in 2021-22, that at least 50% of their movie characters would be 2SLGBTQQIA+/BIPOC from here on out. They seemed to wimp out on those lofty 2021 goals by making Asha just a pretty Black girl instead of delving into her sexuality.
I think enough brand damage was done in 2022 with the two children's animated movies Disney released that year.
Parents haven't forgotten in 2023, and the box office shows they aren't willing to return to the Disney brand yet.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
It was supposed to be two separate 3 hour movies, then got mixed into one 4 hour movie. I'm sure it would have played better as originally intended.
There was an effort to reconstruct the director's cut, but the missing footage could not be found.
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
Again, it's all definition. I can separate the art from the business. If it makes you feel better we could call it a financial flop. That's why I say it's a neverending battle. You obviously base your definition of flop squarely on the artistic side. And that's great. Personally I put more weight into the financial side, that's all. Why? Because like it or not, money makes the world go round. I was never getting my two thrones or warrior within films because the first film lost money.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I do: Elemental. It went on to do quite well with those supposedly wary parents.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure why you and others are framing it in terms of my feelings. I'm being perfectly calm and rational in what I'm saying.
That isn't true. If it were, I wouldn't call Wish a flop.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Before I Google, I thought Elemental was about a girl and a boy who are dating? Did one of them turn out to be gay?
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Lake Ripple
Lake Ripple is a character in the 2023 Disney/Pixar animated feature film Elemental. They are the younger sibling of Wade Ripple and a student from the Element City School for the Arts. Lake is a very open-minded and friendly individual like everyone else in their family. Lake is also prone to...
disney.fandom.com
Ghibli
Ghibli is a character in the 2023 Disney/Pixar animated feature film Elemental. She is introduced as Lake Ripple's girlfriend from Element City School for the Arts. Ghibli is a very open-minded water woman who did not hold any prejudice against other elements as she warmly greeted Ember Lumen...
disney.fandom.com
"Anyway, that’s my little sib, Lake. And her girlfriend, Ghibli."
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Lake Ripple
Lake Ripple is a character in the 2023 Disney/Pixar animated feature film Elemental. They are the younger sibling of Wade Ripple and a student from the Element City School for the Arts. Lake is a very open-minded and friendly individual like everyone else in their family. Lake is also prone to...
Ah, yes. I found it too. A character that has no lines of dialogue and only appears briefly in one scene.
No wonder no one cared; it was a mute and inconsequential character that was easy to miss.
"Elemental has two LGBTQ+ characters, but they are very, very minor characters. When Ember and Wade start to fall in love, Wade invites her to meet his family, which is quite an experience given that their apartment is flowing with water everywhere. There, Ember and the audience meet Wade’s sibling, Lake (who in Elemental – The Junior Novelization is introduced as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns) and their girlfriend, Ghibli (a clear reference to the beloved Studio Ghibli), and they are the only two LGBTQ+ characters in Elemental.
Although the presence of Lake and Ghibli is still important, both characters have no dialogue and they only appear once, and briefly."
Elemental Is Another Bad Example Of Pixar’s Poor LGBTQ+ Track Record
Pixar needs to learn from its mistakes.
screenrant.com
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
Yes, just as brief as the split-second kiss in Lightyear that, according to you, caused parents such consternation.Ah, yes. I found it too. A character that has no lines of dialogue and only appears briefly in one scene.
No wonder no one cared; it was a mute and inconsequential character that was easy to miss.
"Elemental has two LGBTQ+ characters, but they are very, very minor characters. When Ember and Wade start to fall in love, Wade invites her to meet his family, which is quite an experience given that their apartment is flowing with water everywhere. There, Ember and the audience meet Wade’s sibling, Lake (who in Elemental – The Junior Novelization is introduced as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns) and their girlfriend, Ghibli (a clear reference to the beloved Studio Ghibli), and they are the only two LGBTQ+ characters in Elemental.
Although the presence of Lake and Ghibli is still important, both characters have no dialogue and they only appear once, and briefly."
Elemental Is Another Bad Example Of Pixar’s Poor LGBTQ+ Track Record
Pixar needs to learn from its mistakes.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
It wasn't "according to me"
, it was according to all the media attention that Lightyear sexuality element gained for itself.I didn't put the Lesbian character in Lightyear, and I didn't tell news editors at major media outlets to run stories about it. I merely commented on the media attention that situation got for itself.
The box office results speak for themselves, they don't speak for me. I didn't even see the movie, and had no desire to.
Same-Sex Kiss Restored in Pixar’s ‘Lightyear’ Following Staff Uproar Over ‘Don’t Say Gay’ Bill (EXCLUSIVE)
Restoring a same-sex kiss in 'Lightyear' comes after years of thwarted efforts to include LGBTQ identity into Pixar's films, sources say.
variety.com
'Lightyear's' Alisha Hawthorne breaks new ground for Pixar. She wasn't part of the original pitch
'Lightyear' features the first queer Pixar character shown kissing her wife on screen. The filmmakers explain how she was key to the the movie.
www.latimes.com
Disney, Pixar's 'Lightyear' sees same-sex kiss restored amid controversy with queer character: report
A same-sex kiss removed from Disney and Pixar's "Lightyear" was restored, according to footage of the film seen for the first time at CinemaCon. The kiss was originally removed from the film.
www.foxnews.com
‘Lightyear’ Producer Says Disney Was “Supportive” of Lesbian Characters, but There Was “Definite Pushback” to Kiss
The same-gender kiss was cut from the Buzz Lightyear origin story before being restored following an open letter from unnamed Pixar staff alleging the studio censored "nearly every moment of overtly gay affection" in its films.
www.hollywoodreporter.com
Disney RESTORES lesbian kiss on Pixar's 'Lightyear'
The kiss was previous removed from the film before being reinstated in March after Pixar employees work aa letter to CEO Bob Chapek.
Disstevefan1
Well-Known Member
I loved Elemental and I am no where near the demographic Disney is going after. But I am one person.Ah, yes. I found it too. A character that has no lines of dialogue and only appears briefly in one scene.
No wonder no one cared; it was a mute and inconsequential character that was easy to miss.
"Elemental has two LGBTQ+ characters, but they are very, very minor characters. When Ember and Wade start to fall in love, Wade invites her to meet his family, which is quite an experience given that their apartment is flowing with water everywhere. There, Ember and the audience meet Wade’s sibling, Lake (who in Elemental – The Junior Novelization is introduced as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns) and their girlfriend, Ghibli (a clear reference to the beloved Studio Ghibli), and they are the only two LGBTQ+ characters in Elemental.
Although the presence of Lake and Ghibli is still important, both characters have no dialogue and they only appear once, and briefly."
Elemental Is Another Bad Example Of Pixar’s Poor LGBTQ+ Track Record
Pixar needs to learn from its mistakes.
Disney needs to:
SLASH the budgets of their movies. Good stores cost nothing but imagination.
Write good stories that have the broadest appeal.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
This is entirely too much to ask.