Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[erasure fan1]

I think we need to stop with this "levels" based on budget. It'll either lose money or it won't. This "well Studio x only lost x amount compared to Disney" is getting a bit vindictive (not saying you) at this point. It doesn't help the conversation.

But you used the term "flop worse than most mcu". How can you say flop worse if there's no base of comparison? The only way I can say if one film flops worse than another, is by money. If X film has a loss of $100mil and Y film has a loss of $175mil, film Y flopped worse.

 

[Disney Irish]

It starts at the box office. Disney Plus and theme parks won't leverage all the bombs. You still need to have some bread and butter hits to keep on keeping on.

Except as has been discussed many times, the box office is a diminishing medium. While I don't think it'll ever truly go away in our lifetimes it'll become more a boutique market.

 

[Miru]

Disney has completely destroyed its brand. There was a time in my life when this realization would have me distraught, but I became numb to Disney falling apart shortly after it destroyed Future World, so I'm remarkably less sad than I should be. Thank God they got through Avengers Endgame before it crumbled; I'm capable of pretending everything that came after never happened.

Even No Way Home?

 

[Miru]

A decade ago, Disney bought not one, but two money-printing machines (Star Wars and Marvel). And it immediately let the intern (who doesn't like money) smash the Star Wars machine with a sledgehammer. On the other hand, Disney turned the Marvel machine on and watched as it printed billions of dollars. Then about five years ago, it handed the intern her sledgehammer and watched as she smashed the hell out of the Marvel machine, too. Now it is wondering why neither machine prints money anymore.

At least someone was able to fix the Star Wars machine, but it’s already been thrown out by now.

 

[celluloid]

Except as has been discussed many times, the box office is a diminishing medium. While I don't think it'll ever truly go away in our lifetimes it'll become more a boutique market.

You say that. Why can't it be more likely that what has also been discussed many times?
Bad brand trust and every release being a tentpole budget resting in its hubris laurels?
Other studios did not suffer the same way as Disney, and many has their best year in years.

It's not 2020, 2021 or 2022 anymore.
Just because Disneys animation, MCU and remakes lost does not mean all did.

Other studios had a typical variety of ebb and ow and the market this year grew again post pandemic.

 

[Disney Irish]

But you used the term "flop worse than most mcu". How can you say flop worse if there's no base of comparison? The only way I can say if one film flops worse than another, is by money. If X film has a loss of $100mil and Y film has a loss of $175mil, film Y flopped worse.

I said "flop worse than most MCU films this year". At least get the full quote right.

Anyways, my point is that saying X lost $75M less than Y is actually a hollow discussion. Both lost money, the fact one lost more isn't somehow making the other better. Its just a way to make the one the put out Y worse.

 

[Miru]

I think Disney needs to hire Nerdrotic as the main director of the MCU from now on. See how he likes it. Disney should hire every right-wing pundit that ever criticized it to take control; what will happen next?

 

[Miru]

I think Marvel, Star Wars, Pixar, and Disney animation are all at this point.

In the past I just assumed I could go to a movie from any of them and I’d enjoy it, now I wait and read reviews and if they aren’t glowing I wait.

The reviews for both the Marvels and Wish have been generally good (from audiences) and people still aren’t giving them the benefit of the doubt, I think they already lost the audience and they are at the “need to regain their trust” point.



Lack of faith, it’s honestly the only answer I can come up with for why everything from Disney is failing and/or underperforming.

The good news is it can be won back, Disneys been down a few times before and they followed it up with the revival era and the renaissance era.

Not sure if they can win them back this time unless they let the fans run the asylum directly. Nerdrotic as the main director of the McU, YellowFlash2 as the main director of animation, and Clownfish TV heading Lucasfilm, perhaps?

 

[Disney Irish]

You say that. Why can't it be more likely that what has also been discussed many times?
Bad brand trust and every release being a tentpole budget resting in its hubris laurels?
Other studios did not suffer the same way as Disney, and many has their best year in years.

It's not 2020, 2021 or 2022 anymore.
Just because Disneys animation, MCU and remakes lost does not mean all did.

Other studios had a typical variety and the market this year grew again post pandemic.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. There are many reasons for everything, its not just a simple x happened and that caused y.

The whole industry is shifting, there should be no question or doubt on that. Just have to look at the overall box office to see that, its still down something like 20% compared to pre-pandemic box office, it'll likely never get back to that level. Disney relied too much on tent poles. The tent poles they did release didn't connect with audiences. Other Studios had failures too, but the successes they had connected with audiences.

There isn't one factor to this, its a whole industry in flux and all Studios are reeling from it, some just have been able to weather the storm better by having variety that Disney didn't have that connected with audiences.

All can be true.

 

[celluloid]

Nothing happens in a vacuum. There are many reasons for everything, its not just a simple x happened and that caused y.

The whole industry is shifting, there should be no question or doubt on that. Just have to look at the overall box office to see that, its still down something like 20% compared to pre-pandemic box office, it'll likely never get back to that level. Disney relied too much on tent poles. The tent poles they did release didn't connect with audiences. Other Studios had failures too, but the successes they had connected with audiences.

There isn't one factor to this, its a whole industry in flux and all Studios are reeling from it, some just have been able to weather the storm better by having variety that Disney didn't have that connected with audiences.

All can be true.

It would be easier to believe in the shift if the total gross of movies for the year was. It growing back every year a d more cinemas are being built in china.
Also if all are true, than the vacuum does not matter. If was a pretty equal opportunity for all studios in the marketplace.
People still don't mind gojng to movies for content that appeals to them. If Disney's movies would have connected the way asked on their budget, than we would have been about back to 2019 levels. That says it all.

I don't think there has ever been a year where there have been five(presuming Migration does what if intends to)animation movies out performing with audiences in theaters in one year.
A Disney animation studio feature performed worse than four animation releases this year.

Most ships in 2023 theatrical box office rose.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Right I was asking to those that claim that The Marvels was pandering

I don’t specifically think the marvels is a”misstep” on its own…I think it’s the whole MCU that’s drowning at this point.

Indy 5 wasn’t unwatchable…but lucasfilm is a running joke hence the flop

Just how I see it

 

[Tha Realest]

Here’s the thing: an honest post-mortem could help identify these problems and course correct, but in order to do so you have to accept there’s a body to examine. While most open-eyed people see a mortuary full of bodies like Strange World, Wish, Marvels, Indiana Jones, and a recent remake, some here think they can spot a pulse and that they’ll reawaken from a vegetative state to become profitable cult classics years from now.

 

[Disney Irish]

It would be easier to believe in the shift if the total gross of movies for the year was. It growing back every year a d more cinemas are being built in china.
Also if all are true, than the vacuum does not matter. If was a pretty equal opportunity for all studios in the marketplace.
People still don't mind gojng to movies for content that appeals to them. If Disney's movies would have connected the way asked on their budget, than we would have been about back to 2019 levels. That says it all.

I don't think there has ever been a year where there have been five(presuming Migration does what if intends to)animation movies out performing with audiences in theaters in one year.
A Disney animation studio feature performed worse than four animation releases this year.

Most ships in 2023 theatrical box office rose.

2019 had 9 $1B+ movies, 2021 had 1, 2022 had 3, and 2023 has had 2 (so far but not looking like it'll change that).

If you can't see the industry is shifting, well then you aren't paying close enough attention. Ticket sales have been on a downward trend (especially domestically) for decades as ticket prices continue to go up. More theaters being built in China isn't going to help that.

The fact that there were multiple animation films this year doesn't change the fact that the overall box office continues to be depressed, and its not looking to change. I don't know what 2024 will bring in terms of the box office totals, but if its anything like 2023 it'll still continue to be ~20-25% below prepandemic levels, again not looking to change overall.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Mid 2022 to now isn’t that long. Or if we count Marvel that’s even shorter thanks to Vol 3.

Frankly…even the movies that made money began to suck awhile ago

The Star Wars movies were 75% hot garbage…all the live action remakes were nonsense…marvel has had maybe 1 out the last 3/4 be unique/lasting in any way?

It’s almost the mass audience has turned the corner on Disney organically…

And then the stuff continued to get worse

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Here’s the thing: an honest post-mortem could help identify these problems and course correct, but in order to do so you have to accept there’s a body to examine. While most open-eyed people see a mortuary full of bodies like Strange World, Wish, Marvels, Indiana Jones, and a recent remake, some here think they can spot a pulse and that they’ll reawaken from a vegetative state to become profitable cult classics years from now.

That “some” is dead wrong (but won’t give up)

These movies are a mix of bad, unnecessary, unmemorable, unwanted…

Nothing to “remember” and that’s the biggest problem

 

[Disney Irish]

Here’s the thing: an honest post-mortem could help identify these problems and course correct, but in order to do so you have to accept there’s a body to examine. While most open-eyed people see a mortuary full of bodies like Strange World, Wish, Marvels, Indiana Jones, and a recent remake, some here think they can spot a pulse and that they’ll reawaken from a vegetative state to become profitable cult classics years from now.

I think the honest post-mortem is, Disney has been too slow to adjust to a changing market, ie lower budget fair.

Quality discussions aside, had they anticipated a slow down in the theatrical market and lowered budgets we wouldn't be having a lot of these conversations. The fact they continued to steamroll ahead with tentpole budgets on lesser quality films shows they thought they could buck the trend.

Hopefully lessons were learned and budgets and quality adjustments are made moving forward.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the honest post-mortem is, Disney has been too slow to adjust to a changing market, ie lower budget fair.

Quality discussions aside, had they anticipated a slow down in the theatrical market and lowered budgets we wouldn't be having a lot of these conversations. The fact they continued to steamroll ahead with tentpole budgets on lesser quality films shows they thought they could buck the trend.

Hopefully lessons were learned and budgets and quality adjustments are made moving forward.

Stop blaming “nature”…yet another thinly veiled excuse for bad management

Their movies are bombing worse than their competitors. It’s NOT just about changing times.

 

[Disney Irish]

Stop blaming “nature”…yet another thinly veiled excuse for bad management

Their movies are bombing worse than their competitors. It’s NOT just about changing times.

I don't think you actually read what is posted and just post replies. Stop trying to win points. Your Iger Hater Card isn't going to be taken away, its ok.

I just said management is to blame because they didn't anticipate a slowing theatrical market and didn't budget accordingly. Also there is quality issues, which is also a management issue.

So if you actually read what I posted, I was actually sort of agreeing with you but was providing more nuisance.

 

[Willmark]

I don’t think there’s rejection of a brand. Disney’s audience is primarily families with small kids - it’s just easier and cheaper to wait for Disney+.

Also, Disney’s recent offerings seem bland and uninspired, which isn’t going to get people excited about seeing them.

I wish Disney would just make movies that tell good stories and not care about who they offend.

Even if they make movies that offend you?

Or just who should they “not care who they offend?”

 

[Miru]

Here’s the thing: an honest post-mortem could help identify these problems and course correct, but in order to do so you have to accept there’s a body to examine. While most open-eyed people see a mortuary full of bodies like Strange World, Wish, Marvels, Indiana Jones, and a recent remake, some here think they can spot a pulse and that they’ll reawaken from a vegetative state to become profitable cult classics years from now.

Or they might concentrate only on the most obvious stinkers like the remakes and Lightyear. The Critical Drinker is an exception but recently he’s been punching down too much.