Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Casper Gutman]

I think that needs to be reaffirmed. Cause there was alot of unnecessary ugliness tossed very casually around because people just didn’t show up to watch a “live action Remake”

Again…a variety of reasons. But what got me is the not subtle inferences sent towards many that it was ONE thing.

I said if before: I’ll not live in that ugly kinda world…even if I’m wrong.

There is a reason this particular remake has garnered so much more discussion and scrutiny, both here and elsewhere, and it’s tied to broader political shifts that have taken place over the last decade. You may not like that -I don’t like that - but it’s true, and refusing to acknowledge it doesn’t change it. Is it the only reason someone might not like TLM? No! I hate the live-action remakes, one and all (Cinderella was OK)! But the reaction to TLM has been out of all proportion, and there’s a reason for that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There is a reason this particular remake has garnered so much more discussion and scrutiny, both here and elsewhere, and it’s tied to broader political shifts that have taken place over the last decade. You may not like that -I don’t like that - but it’s true, and refusing to acknowledge it doesn’t change it. Is it the only reason someone might not like TLM? No! I hate the live-action remakes, one and all (Cinderella was OK)! But the reaction to TLM has been out of all proportion, and there’s a reason for that.

There are ugly “reasons”…for sure…

A not so ugly one is probably they’ve done this 22 times and have beaten the ever loving $h!t outta them into the ground?

This guy:

 

[erasure fan1]

While this “new math” may make the Greek chorus of pixie dusters feel confident about the current direction, there is absolutely no way TWDC greenlit these movies, with these budgets, so it could play accounting games and maybe juice a bit of merchandise out of the deal.

That's exactly right in my opinion. People here keep talking about the backend revenue for these films. We all know that Disney makes movies to sell toys as well as tickets. Cough**cars**cough There's more to a Disney film than just the box office. But you DO NOT spend that kind of money on a film not expecting it to perform in its theatrical window.

 

[Jedijax719]

Interesting tidbit. Only ONE original movie has spawned a franchise in the past 10 years (that I could find). That is John Wyck. There have been a couple (not many) that have spawned a sequel (Quiet Place, SING, and Pets come to mind-but that latter 2 sequels were bombs). The means that only 2 originals in the past 10 years have been so popular that they launched their own franchises. In the previous 10 years, there were 15-20 original or adapted movies that launched franchises.

 

[Disney Irish]

That's exactly right in my opinion. People here keep talking about the backend revenue for these films. We all know that Disney makes movies to sell toys as well tickets. Cough**cars**cough There's more to a Disney film than just the box office. But you DO NOT spend that kind of money on a film not expecting it to perform in its theatrical window.

I think this is pretty much understood by everyone here. What I think some are trying to say is that while they underperformed during theatrical most are not going to end up losing money when all receipts are totaled up. Some just want to keep focusing on the loss during theatrical in a hope they keep saying it Disney will forget all other revenue sources and reverse course on things like remakes. Not gonna happen.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Interesting tidbit. Only ONE original movie has spawned a franchise in the past 10 years (that I could find). That is John Wyck. There have been a couple (not many) that have spawned a sequel (Quiet Place, SING, and Pets come to mind-but that latter 2 sequels were bombs). The means that only 2 originals in the past 10 years have been so popular that they launched their own franchises. In the previous 10 years, there were 15-20 original or adapted movies that launched franchises.

That is very telling…for sure. It’s likely a direct offshoot of Hollywood spending too much and becoming “risk averse” and only going for “bankable”, you’d think?

In order to have new franchises…you gotta be willing to show them to people so they might like them? Even if it means they might not and they might flop…


You know what I wouldn’t do if I was running a studio under these circumstances?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this is pretty much understood by everyone here. What I think some are trying to say is that while they underperformed during theatrical most are not going to end up losing money when all receipts are totaled up. Some just want to keep focusing on the loss during theatrical in a hope they keep saying it Disney will forget all other revenue sources and reverse course on things like remakes. Not gonna happen.

What if all the receipts have been totaled up?
Cause Disney has four this year where the totals are in the red and aren’t gonna dig out…not like they’re gonna find $100,000,000 in “lost” box office revenue under a couch cushion. The die is cast. All tent poles - mind you.

There’s a term in baseball for going 1 for 5…it’s the Mendoza line.

 

[Disney Irish]

What if all the receipts have been totaled up?
Cause Disney has four this year where the totals are in the red and aren’t gonna dig out…not like they’re gonna find $100,000,000 in “lost” box office revenue under a couch cushion. The die is cast. All tent poles - mind you.

There’s a term in baseball for going 1 for 5…it’s the Mendoza line.

They haven't been all totaled up since most of the films we're talking about are still in their theatrical run.

Sure there will be some that end up losing money when all totaled, such as Indy5 (which I know you love that is being said). But others like TLM will certainly not end up losing money when all totaled.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

They haven't been all totaled up since most of the films we're talking about are still in their theatrical run.

Sure there will be some that end up losing money when all totaled, such as Indy5 (which I know you love that is being said). But others like TLM will certainly not end up losing money when all totaled.

It’s crazy how much more information we get today, to which people think they are entitled; not to mention non-experts attempting to interpret that information.

(That’s right, “mega-fans” - you’re not experts. Just fans.)

In determining whether or how much I like a movie (how “good” it is) I don’t care which studio made it. I don’t care how much it cost to make. I don’t care if it makes money or why. None of those things are relevant to whether a film is artistically good or popular (which often don’t go hand in hand across pop culture in music, TV, or films) or whether or not I will enjoy it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They haven't been all totaled up since most of the films we're talking about are still in their theatrical run.

Sure there will be some that end up losing money when all totaled, such as Indy5 (which I know you love that is being said). But others like TLM will certainly not end up losing money when all totaled.

So when do you want to “total them up”?

A month? 6 months?

I’ll wait.

The number is $640,000,000. And That’s the low end of the estimates.

 

[Jedijax719]

That is very telling…for sure. It’s likely a direct offshoot of Hollywood spending too much and becoming “risk averse” and only going for “bankable”, you’d think?

In order to have new franchises…you gotta be willing to show them to people so they might like them? Even if it means they might not and they might flop…


You know what I wouldn’t do if I was running a studio under these circumstances?

Enlighten us please.

 

[Chi84]

It’s crazy how much more information we get today, to which people think they are entitled; not to mention non-experts attempting to interpret that information.

(That’s right, “mega-fans” - you’re not experts. Just fans.)

In determining whether or how much I like a movie (how “good” it is) I don’t care which studio made it. I don’t care how much it cost to make. I don’t care if it makes money or why. None of those things are relevant to whether a film is artistically good or popular (which often don’t go hand in hand across pop culture in music, TV, or films) or whether or not I will enjoy it.

What shocks me is the extent to which people now seemingly need their subjective opinions validated as objective truths. Some have gotten to the point where they don't even know the difference. People can like a movie and hope that it does well even though it underperforms according to studio estimates.

 

[erasure fan1]

In determining whether or how much I like a movie (how “good” it is) I don’t care which studio made it. I don’t care how much it cost to make. I don’t care if it makes money or why. None of those things are relevant to whether a film is artistically good or popular (which often don’t go hand in hand across pop culture in music, TV, or films) or whether or not I will enjoy it.

And that's great. Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone telling someone they're wrong for liking something. I know I've been pretty vocal about the Disney films like princess and the frog and prince of Persia... That I loved but didn't do well at all. When people talk about them flopping, that's fine, I agree. It doesn't change my thoughts on them nor do I take offense.

Movies can take on a new life years down the road. A Christmas story is pretty beloved, and that's great, but it doesn't change the fact it didn't do well in it's theatrical run with only 13mil domestic. We have a long way to go before we see if any of these films become a "cult classic".

The main debate now seems to be, does or should Disney care about theatrical box office. Are they ok with the underperformance because they have secondary revenue streams? Or did they expect a big return based on the budgets allocated to these films? Not if some found enjoyment in the films.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And that's great. Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anyone telling someone they're wrong for liking something. I know I've been pretty vocal about the Disney films like princess and the frog and prince of Persia... That I loved but didn't do well at all. When people talk about them flopping, that's fine, I agree. It doesn't change my thoughts on them nor do I take offense.

Movies can take on a new life years down the road. A Christmas story is pretty beloved, and that's great, but it doesn't change the fact it didn't do well in it's theatrical run with only 13mil domestic. We have a long way to go before we see if any of these films become a "cult classic".

The main debate now seems to be, does or should Disney care about theatrical box office. Are they ok with the underperformance because they have secondary revenue streams? Or did they expect a big return based on the budgets allocated to these films? Not if some found enjoyment in the films.

It’s really a rather simple thing here that keeps getting flipped on it’s ear based on the new take of the day:

Disney movies are not getting enough butts in seats.

It’s Disney…that is the goal. That has always been the goal…it always will be. They sell more stuff with more people in the seats. They didn’t get close to where they wanted it to be.

Debating why? Isn’t out of line at all. That can go on for years.
But debating that it happened? That’s just silly. It’s misdirection to try to take the sting out of corporate failure. And what a waste of time that is…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Enlighten us please.

Don’t bomb Star Wars
Don’t bomb Indy
Don’t bomb batman
Don’t bomb superman
Don’t take marvel sideways

…if you need the old franchises…stop being so damn stupid about them!

I do give Pixar a bit of a pass…they have cred cause they took flyers on some weird concepts…rat chefs…talking cars…guy floating his house away to save it…
So that one gets some cred

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What shocks me is the extent to which people now seemingly need their subjective opinions validated as objective truths. Some have gotten to the point where they don't even know the difference. People can like a movie and hope that it does well even though it underperforms according to studio estimates.

What still shocks me is people claiming math is “subjective”…and others giving license to that nonsense to preserve some false belief in “individual opinion sanctity”

 

[Tony the Tigger]

, I haven't seen anyone telling someone they're wrong for liking something.

Welcome to the forum, new member.

does or should Disney care about theatrical box office.

The big picture: of course. Regarding TLM, no. The social contribution outweighs what little they may have lost on box office. We are in a bizarre moment in history where people are hypersensitive to things like this. This moment will pass. Either way this movie will be greatly appreciated by certain segments of the population - now, and I believe more down the road. The criticism will revert back to a majority talking about live action remakes rather than a majority talking about “not my Ariel.”

 

[Chi84]

What still shocks me is people claiming math is “subjective”…and others giving license to that nonsense to preserve some false belief in “individual opinion sanctity”

How are people claiming math is subjective? The math certainly is not, but the conclusions drawn from it can differ. Statistics can often be used to bolster weak arguments.

 

[Disney Irish]

So when do you want to “total them up”?

A month? 6 months?

I’ll wait.

The number is $640,000,000. And That’s the low end of the estimates.

Its "totaled up" when the last dollar is collected for the particular film, that could be 1 month, 6 months, or 10 years from now. That is for Disney to worry about, not us. The point is that is ONLY Disney that can determine when the receipts are all totaled, not you or me.

Now you can label a movie a failure at the box office all you want, but if Disney is continuing to make money on it post-theatrical do you think they really care that some posters on a fan forum called it a failure. Nope they don't, they will say "thank you consumer" and laugh all the way to the bank. This is the way....

 

[Jedijax719]

Don’t bomb Star Wars
Don’t bomb Indy
Don’t bomb batman
Don’t bomb superman
Don’t take marvel sideways

…if you need the old franchises…stop being so damn stupid about them!

I do give Pixar a bit of a pass…they have cred cause they took flyers on some weird concepts…rat chefs…talking cars…guy floating his house away to save it…
So that one gets some cred

That's the same as telling a coach with a losing record to "just win". Certainly you can do better than that and tell us exactly how to ensure that every franchise is successful. What changes would you specifically make?

The only one I can speak for is SW. I can come up with 100 things that I personally feel would have made the new trilogy better. However, in the long run, that doesn't at all mean that everyone or even many would agree. Making the changes I feel would work would not even come close to guaranteeing better box office results.

But you talk as if you know it all and have the not-so-secret formula for making everything successful. So you must be in the business.