Indy_UK
Well-Known Member
What’s that then?
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Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs
- Thread starter Disney Analyst
- Start date
What’s that then?
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
The upcoming Captain America will star Captain America. It will star a Captain America who has been Captain America in the comics for years.
Why, I wonder, don’t you consider him Captain America?
There is very literally no film Disney could produce that the perpetual posters on these boards would not whine about relentlessly… because the real issue isn’t the films.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
A comic book/tween franchise that has shown some weird longevity
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
It is going to have a popular B level character try and duplicating an incredibly popular A level character…
Good luck rolling that square wheel down the road
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Okay, I'm on it! I was actually worried about that, because I've moved to a new house in a gated community. My old house for the previous 30 years wasn't in a gated community, but was known as a "good candy" neighborhood and kids would commute in from across the freeway to trick or treat there even though it was hilly. My doorstep was mobbed every year!
I've been told by the neighbors though that the kids in our community bring in their friends from school and we are also known as a "good candy" neighborhood, so there should be a steady stream of pop culture data this Tuesday evening. I can't wait to see what the kids are doing this year! And how many iterations of Barbie can they come up with?
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
Most people don't have a clue that falcon or winter soldier both took up the mantle of captain America. I think where they lost people was how fast they switched. I'm not big on Falcon taking the shield. Not because it's Sam, but because I loved Falcon and wanted to see more of him as that character. They really didn't need to recast Cap, yet. I think people just aren't ready to move on from Evans version. Eventually they need to move on, and I'm all for it. I just think it wasn't needed so quickly. I also think it doesn't help that the transition happened in a D+ show and he hasn't featured in any of the post endgame films. So they immediately pass the torch, then wait 11 films to bring him to the big screen. So I can see why people are skeptical of the film.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Tony the Tigger
Well-Known Member
Google “covid.” There may have been reduced attendance at theaters amid all the dying. They didn’t just randomly throw everything on D+ for no reason.
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
Endgame was released in 2019 and I'm not sure I would call the transition a sub-plot. It was a small scene at the end of the film. Falcon and winter soldier released in 2021 almost exactly 2yrs later. It would have been sooner if not for covid. The infinity saga wasn't even complete yet and they made the switch. So I'd say that wasn't a slow transition. It was, Bam! Steve's done, here's Sam your new Cap. They've been slow to integrate him into the mcu, but not slow to replace the character. Again, I'm not saying he shouldn't be recast, but I do think there was a better strategy to do it.
That's right on the money. The character was never an A tier character before the MCU. But that doesn't have much to do with what's being said. Chris Evans captain America on the other hand, is absolutely, 100%, a beloved A tier character. That's why some aren't super hyped for this.
I won’t be shocked by anything… it is all about execution…If it is good it will make more money… if it is not it will make less…this year Antman was not great, but Guardians was…which one was more successful… it will not make as much as marvel pre-pandemic as the marketplace has changed since Covid
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
The films have been setting up Sam as a new Cap since Winter Soldier, showing us the pair bonding over their shared worldview and the alienating experience of war. Caps longing to give up the shield and live a simple life has been reiterated in multiple films. Honestly, the transition is one of the most earned, well-developed elements of the MCU. The idea that we needed a two-hour film of Steve saying “I am going to retire and give Sam the shield for the following reasons…” is very silly indeed. If you have a problem with how the MCU handled the transition, you would have had a problem with any handling of the transition.
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
I think the new Captain America movie could be good, but as of now, Chris Evans is a household name and Anthony Mackie isn't. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier show was meant to help people warm up to his character, but a lot of last-minute revisions to that show due to COVID really hurt it.
There's also the fact that people who are fans of a character are often resistant to new, successor versions. I've seen people similarly unenthused about Cassie Lang replacing Scott in Ant-man, Shuri replacing T'challa in Black Panther and Kate Bishop potentially replacing Clint Barton as Hawkeye. I personally like all of these new characters, but I know many people hate change.
Again, I think the new Captain America movie could be good, but it will need to do a good job winning over the general public to the new Captain America as Mackie's Cap currently doesn't have a huge, built-in fanbase. Maybe that will change. After all, Chris Evan's Captain America didn't really become popular until the Winter Soldier. People forget that "The First Avenger" was one of the lowest grossing MCU movies.
There's also the fact that people who are fans of a character are often resistant to new, successor versions. I've seen people similarly unenthused about Cassie Lang replacing Scott in Ant-man, Shuri replacing T'challa in Black Panther and Kate Bishop potentially replacing Clint Barton as Hawkeye. I personally like all of these new characters, but I know many people hate change.
Again, I think the new Captain America movie could be good, but it will need to do a good job winning over the general public to the new Captain America as Mackie's Cap currently doesn't have a huge, built-in fanbase. Maybe that will change. After all, Chris Evan's Captain America didn't really become popular until the Winter Soldier. People forget that "The First Avenger" was one of the lowest grossing MCU movies.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
I think it’s very valid that when a long running series changes up the main cast it’s perfectly logical to lose some interest.
But ‘Captain America’ has not been recast by any means. A new character is taking the mantle. Chris Evans is not replaced. It really wasn’t done gradually, but temporarily I can see if people were not ready for it. We’ve already done Captain America, put that franchise to bed for a while.
It’s very valid though that MCU is in a weird transitional phase and it’s hard to say if they are handling it right. As opposed to season whatever of The Office sans Michael Scott, maybe we needed more of a hard Star Trek to Next Generation type transition.
It’s not that it needs a reboot, but they really needed to move onto the ‘next series’, where one could pretty easily jump in fresh.
But ‘Captain America’ has not been recast by any means. A new character is taking the mantle. Chris Evans is not replaced. It really wasn’t done gradually, but temporarily I can see if people were not ready for it. We’ve already done Captain America, put that franchise to bed for a while.
It’s very valid though that MCU is in a weird transitional phase and it’s hard to say if they are handling it right. As opposed to season whatever of The Office sans Michael Scott, maybe we needed more of a hard Star Trek to Next Generation type transition.
It’s not that it needs a reboot, but they really needed to move onto the ‘next series’, where one could pretty easily jump in fresh.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Ant Man 3 was a loss, and Guardians 3 was a profit generator. But the modest profits from Guardians 3 were not enough to offset the larger losses from Ant Man 3.
Combined, those two films lost $12 Million for Marvel Studios and Disney.
Ant Man 3: $200 Production $100 Marketing, Box Office $129 USA, $100 Foreign, $229 B.O. Take = $71 Million Loss
Guardians 3: $250 Production $100 Marketing, Box Office $215 USA, $194 Foreign, $409 B.O. Take = $59 Million Profit
erasure fan1
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything here except the setting up of Sam as Cap. They did a great job of showing their friendship evolve. They had a bond right from the start and Sam became Caps go to because he didn't have that person since he lost Bucky. I think most knew that Sam or Bucky was going to take up the mantle eventually. Personally I would have not done anything. Falcon was awesome, let him continue. And if Evans ever wants to come back, great. Sure he can still come back, but then that completely undermines Sam and his arc.
I never said you needed a full movie of Steve retiring and handing off the shield. Steve retired, it happened, we've seen it. What I'm saying is why did you need to immediately pass the torch? Let the gravity of the situation sink in for a while. That aside, they decided to try and transition it on a D+ show. If that's the plan, have him show up in some of the phase 4 films. Get people on board with him as the new Cap. I don't remember the viewership being very strong for the show. So having them flesh out the transition on the big screen would have really helped this film in my opinion. I'm a fan of Mackie, I hope the movie is good. At the same time, I can see why some are skeptical about it.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
one of the things I hated about Falcon and the Winter Soldier was it’s need to “show” why Sam was “worthy” of the mantle. The films already did that. He had earned it in the half dozen appearances he had already made in the films, and certainly by the end of Endgame. I felt it undercut the growth, development, and reception his character had earned.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
I disagree, I took it more that Sam was unsure of himself that he could step into the role. That wasn't to show that he was "worthy" but rather that self doubt was holding him back from fully picking up the mantle. The films never established that he felt sure of himself enough to step into the role of Cap.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Which way my entire point. The general public and Hollywood money machine doesn’t care about what comic book fans want…
They care about expanding the appeal beyond that…and that is what evans did.
There’s been a billion stories since…but the BY FAR most likely truth is that MCU/Disney didn’t want Downey and evans - in particular - to “own” the core of their franchise…so they resisted pushing farther and the actors parted.
Why? Johnny depp. In 2 words.
Don’t really blame either side…to be honest. But the appeal is in decline…and a week from now we’re gonna have a flop to throw on the fire.
Sometimes the truth doesn’t care about our preferences.
Tha Realest
Well-Known Member
Sure it is. Just as there have been characters other than Bruce Wayne appearing as Batman, or multiple character other than T’Challa taking the mantle of Black Panther. It’s the next iteration of the character, and it’s been happening in the comics for years. Some fans may or may not agree with that, but Steve Rogers character more than had a full arc.