Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[MrPromey]

I just looked and I only made it half way through episode 2 before giving up on it.

Maybe it’s another casualty of me no longer giving Disney the benefit of the doubt, with so much to watch there’s no reason to sit through something I’m not enjoying in hopes it’ll get better.

It does get better.

I was iffy at the start, too but there are a lot of pieces being put into play in the beginning with a lot of different characters in different locations and times that take a while to come together.

It's not obvious, even half way through, that it'll all eventually converge but it does and in rather spectacular fashion.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Tom Cruise has had bombs before. So this is the one that means he is DONE? He was in the highest grossing film of 2022. The one he is known for the most and he returned to it. No one else could have been in that role, love him or tired of him.

He definitely sold Top Gun. There is no way without him it would have done as well.

Stars totally still matter. Otherwise, they would be recasting left and right with great results.

Chris Pratt's track record in theaters is quite bankable. Love him or tired of him, he correlates to the IP and we don't know if it would do as well without him.

Oppenheimer is great all around but there is no way it would have done quite as well without Robert Downey JR or Cillian Murphy.

Totally bankable. It still has to be a decent movie to great.

But close your eyes and be in the world that everyone must agree with you and is reality because you said so.

By no definition, now or forty years ago, is Murphy a star. He's a very good actor, but he's not a star. Downey is, but he was barely featured in the film's marketing. The star of Oppenheimer was Nolan, one of two directors who can open a film.

What's Pratt's big non-IP star vehicle? Cruise has M:I and, yes, Top Gun, both of which are star-driven franchises. Pratt's work in theatrical release films is entirely in IP-driven material.

 

[MrPromey]

It was fairly universally praised by both critics and viewers alike as one of the best shows of the year and the best SW media since Empire. Rejecting it if you have any taste at all for Star Wars (or even sci-fi in general) is a sign of some pretty deep-seated bias.

And let’s talk about “distrusting” Disney. It’s actually a really odd idea. It’s very hard to imagine someone saying they “distrust” Universal or Paramount. Sure, you might not like Illumination movies, which share some stylistic elements, but everyone would look at you weird if you refused to see a Fast & Furious movie because you disliked Minions 2. But this is what the Disney attackers have largely been successful in doing, promulgating the almost conspiratorial notion that unlike every other studio, everyone associated with Disney, even quite independent divisions like Marvel and Pixar, operate as a single entity.

I think this is a problem of Disney's own making. I believe you'd be hard pressed to get anyone beyond the fandom to guess that Minions is an Illumination movie, much less a Universal movie. I think a lot would say Mario is a Nintendo movie before maybe mentioning it is that studio that has the minions in the opening thing, if they were paying attention at that point.

Disney's done such a bang-up job with their synergy it's hard not to know most of what they own, they own and I think maybe the door swings both ways when it comes to that.

Someone mentioned Renfield as a modern Universal movie using one of their classic horror characters and I had to look it up to verify because apparently seeing the globe at the beginning which I'm sure was there but I didn't remember, wasn't enough for me to make the connection in my mind when I saw it.

 

[MrPromey]

I haven't played tears yet, but it does seem to fix a lot of my issues with breath. BotW seemed more like a tech demo more than a full game. Ocarina, link to the past, the original, the oracle games, minish cap, wind waker, Links awakening, twilight princess, all are ahead of breath for me.

In my circle of friends, there were a couple that never really liked BOTW. I think it was the non-linear open-world that turned them off, largely. It increased the complexity of the game a lot which for some old-school players longing for simpler times, may have been a turnoff.

Also, one commented how in Ocarina, you teach frogs to sing and in this one, you put them in a pot to cook and eat.

They were kind of likening it to Nintendo's version of GTA.

... Which I get but also... just, no.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think this is a problem of Disney's own making. I believe you'd be hard pressed to get anyone beyond the fandom to guess that Minions is an Illumination movie, much less a Universal movie. I think a lot would say Mario is a Nintendo movie before maybe mentioning it is that studio that has the minions in the opening thing, if they were paying attention at that point.

Disney has done such a bang-up job with their synergy it's hard not to know most of what they own, they own and I think maybe the door swings both ways when it comes to that.

Someone mentioned Renfield as a modern Universal movie using one of their classic horror characters and I had to look it up to verify because apparently seeing the globe at the beginning wasn't enough for me to make the connection in my mind when I saw it.

This is absolutely true. Disney made itself a coherent brand and now its enemies are using that against it, depicting it as far more unified and efficient then it could ever be in reality.

 

[celluloid]

By no definition, now or forty years ago, is Murphy a star. He's a very good actor, but he's not a star. Downey is, but he was barely featured in the film's marketing. The star of Oppenheimer was Nolan, one of two directors who can open a film.

What's Pratt's big non-IP star vehicle? Cruise has M:I and, yes, Top Gun, both of which are star-driven franchises. Pratt's work in theatrical release films is entirely in IP-driven material.

So what is your case for Movie Stars not being a thing anymore again? In the same breath you just said Downey is.

Ya know, if the concept of movie stars was dead, studios would save money if they just scouted really good actors from Community theater.

And as far as Murphy goes. He is now. IPs are great money makers, and they still breed stars. He is the lead in a Nolan film.
And you can bet his skills showcased and power from Peaky Blinders certainly did not hurt his good buddy Nolan.
(not sure what your definition of an Intellecual Property is. Like, you mean an existing one?) Everything created in commercial art and protected is an Intellectual Property. Be it one movie or a remake.

Tony was a wash out before Iron Man, Ally Mcbeal and drugs, and he was huge without it in a few other movies after he starred in it. That is still a movie star. Now it seems you can continue to argue both sides of this in the same post and you can return and decide which one you like better.

The big pictures on the screen make them the stars. It's not that different than how this has always gone.

 

[MrPromey]

This is absolutely true. Disney made itself a coherent brand and now its enemies are using that against it, depicting it as far more unified and efficient then it could ever be in reality.

But not just enemies.

Everyone knows Disney's had a tough year because everyone knows all this stuff is Disney.

Someone showed somewhere on this thread a couple other studios who've had more failures than successes also but since a causal audience isn't likely to realize which major studio they're all attached to, the problem is less obvious.

I'll admit for instance, I'm starting to see Marvel movies the way I see DC movies which is a stink that's not good for Marvel - or Disney.

I'm carrying a prejudice based on being recently unimpressed by other Marvel movies... which we all know are Disney movies.

I'm pretty sure most people think of Disney and Pixar as interchangeable, now, too so one bad Disney and one bad Pixar might as well be two bad Disneys and two bad Pixars. (1+1=4! )

For the other studios, they just have to avoid saying "From the people who brought you... that last stinker that bombed!" in the trailer for their new movies for their past mistakes to not follow them with a general audience.

For Disney, the same strength of brand that would get people into seats on blind faith may be working against them a little when it comes to general audiences, now... along with the whole D+ issue which is hard to quantify.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Elemental. (I've talked elsewhere about what I didn't like and why so I won't bother here) It wasn't bad or offensive to me and I've sat through plenty worse for the sake of entertaining my son but there were story elements that just weren't as well done as I've come to expect from Pixar.

Clearly though, it's finally started to resonate with a wider audience and I wonder if it being another animated Disney/Pixar had anything to do with some people's reluctance to go give it a chance.

Good news there is if that's all it is, they just need one big breakout hit to right that ship.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

When you make something that is specifically made to cater to a certain audience, don't be surprised if there are groups that skip it.

I don’t think its a conscious choice to skip it though, it’s just not anyone’s first choice. My Gf has seen all, and likes most, Marvel movies… but she goes to them primarily because either I, or her son, pick them. Given a choice she’d pick a comedy, romcom, drama, etc.

If someone polled me and said do you like romcoms I’d also answer yes, I’ve seen more than my fair share thanks to my Gf and most are pretty good movies, but they wouldn’t be my first choice.

It’s one thing to like a movie, but that’s not enough, you have to make something that appeals to someone enough they’ll choose to see it over everything else that’s showing. Without me and her son she wouldn’t choose a superhero movie over all the other options in the theater 90% of the time, just like I wouldn’t choose to see a romcom in the theater over all the other movies 90% of the time, despite that theaters are usually pretty evenly split between men and women because someone loves that genre enough to make it their #1 choice and their Husband/Wife/BF/GF/Son/Daughter/Mom/Friend/Etc go to see it with them.

This is why I say Marvel needs to make movies that primarily appeal to young men, they are the most likely demographic to make it their #1 choice, that doesn’t mean girls don’t like superhero movies, it’s just not going to be their #1 choice most of the time.

 

[erasure fan1]

This is why I say Marvel needs to make movies that primarily appeal to young men, they are the most likely demographic to make it their #1 choice, that doesn’t mean girls don’t like superhero movies, it’s just not going to be their #1 choice most of the time.

Yea, I can see that. I know in my house, the two people who have been most critical of the new marvel are my wife and 21yr old daughter. Here's the movies they've seen from the post endgame mcu. No way home, Thor and guardians. None of the films or shows that were supposed to be more geared to them they, cared about. The tv shows are no better. My wife watched Wanda vision, loki, and falcon and winter soldier and hasn't watched a show since. And my daughter has watched none of the shows. So creating shows like she hulk, ms marvel and wanda vision. Or films like black widow, the marvels, wakanda forever or the eternals, Has not endeared them to the mcu. They just don't seem to care. Are they the outliers? Or are they more to the norm? I'm not really sure.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Yea, I can see that. I know in my house, the two people who have been most critical of the new marvel are my wife and 21yr old daughter. Here's the movies they've seen from the post endgame mcu. No way home, Thor and guardians. None of the films or shows that were supposed to be more geared to them they, cared about. The tv shows are no better. My wife watched Wanda vision, loki, and falcon and winter soldier and hasn't watched a show since. And my daughter has watched none of the shows. So creating shows like she hulk, ms marvel and wanda vision. Or films like black widow, the marvels, wakanda forever or the eternals, Has not endeared them to the mcu. They just don't seem to care. Are they the outliers? Or are they more to the norm? I'm not really sure.

The one superhero movie my Gf is sure to pick is Thor, and that’s because she loves Chris Helmsworth, and it’s not because of his acting ability, she’s going to be very upset when I tell her she’s evil because she likes to look at handsome muscular men.

 

[MrPromey]

The one superhero movie my Gf is sure to pick is Thor, and that’s because she loves Chris Helmsworth, and it’s not because of his acting ability, she’s going to be very upset when I tell her she’s evil because she likes to look at handsome muscular men.

yeah... he's not dehydrating and starving himself a few days ahead of a topless scene for you to admire those abs, I don't think.

 

[DKampy]

The orientI think we already know how those will play out based on previous installments for Venice and the type sci fi release of The Creator(I imagine similar to 65 or a bit better). It could do well.

Marvels budget and Wish is much bigger stakes at it is the big budget 200-million-dollar question.

hmmm…Murder on the Orient Express made a profit…Death on the Nile was a Flop…but Disney didn’t even advertise that movie after the Arnie Hammer incident and just threw the movie in theaters to see if they could get any $$$ for it rather then flat out canceling the film…I doubt if the average film goer even realized it was released…Plus Venice will fit in with the spooky time of year.so I have no idea how it will do

The Creator could go either way depending on word of mouth and reviews…which 65 had horrible of both

 

[Bullseye1967]

He was after a girl? He has insisted that he is gay about a bazillion times. Confused.

I am pretty sure you are gay but who is to say?

Is there a test we can give @TP2000 ? Maybe ask him to sing the lyrics to a song? "The rainbow connection" by Kermit the frog comes to mind. Maybe "Over the rainbow" by Judy Garland? He could always look them up and fool us. How about we have him take a pic of his fridge and see if he has Perrier water in there. I really like you as a poster and LOVE your TR's but did you really go there? Do you want a bunch of people on a forum to question your sexuality? Not a good look.

 

[DKampy]

Yup. It was a fairly long bit about not getting to sleep with the hot girl and getting stuck with an annoying, unattractive one like Vellani. Who, I will repeat, was a teen when the show was filmed. And is also incredible in the role, but that's besides the point.

Wow…that’s a first…I think Vellani is adorable and a highlight of Marvel these last few years

 

[JenniferS]

Asked DW about the marvels. Response from her was, “I wouldn’t pay to see it.” She’s so toxic.

I’ve seen the trailer twice (both times before The Haunted Mansion). I thought it looked dreadful. It also gave me straight to Disney+ vibes.

 

[TP2000]

Awww…your not going to do Haunting in Venice or The creator

Sadly, they really burned me on Death On The Nile. Even though I was fully expecting to love it with French & Saunders doing an Agatha Christie story, three women I have adored for several decades. But Death On The Nile really... lost me.

I'll wait for reviews and opinions to come in on Haunting In Venice, then I'll consider it. The Creator, I know nothing about. Not that I'm opposed to it, I just know nothing about it thus far. Check back with me after Labor Day when I get in a more autumnal mood.

 

[TP2000]

I am pretty sure you are gay but who is to say?

Is there a test we can give @TP2000 ? Maybe ask him to sing the lyrics to a song? "The rainbow connection" by Kermit the frog comes to mind.

While I appreciate the thought, that one is a bit after my prime. I watched The Muppet Show weekly, but only as a casual observer.

Maybe "Over the rainbow" by Judy Garland?

Too cliche'. Not that I don't know the words, but it's just... cliche'.

You wanna try the intro theme song to Valley Of The Dolls by Dionne Warwick? Cause I can do that song after two drinks.

He could always look them up and fool us. How about we have him take a pic of his fridge and see if he has Perrier water in there. I really like you as a poster and LOVE your TR's but did you really go there? Do you want a bunch of people on a forum to question your sexuality? Not a good look.

Sadly, I'm at the beach house in San Diego and so excited to have a Trader Joe's nearby that all I have in the fridge right now is Trader Joe's Lemon Carbonated Water. But during dinner party season in the fall, I stock my fridge with Pellegrino. In the plastic bottles to fill up the first round of glasses with before the guests sit down at the table, but then I use the fancier glass bottles to set about for refills to look cool.

That's all gotta prove something, doesn't it? At the very, very least it classifies me as "Not Really The Marrying Kind".

 

[TP2000]

Wow…that’s a first…I think Vellani is adorable and a highlight of Marvel these last few years

She may be adorable, she may be brilliant, she may be very talented. But is she the type to interest Marvel's core customer base of males aged 13 to 28? That was the topic, not that she isn't talented or adorable or a "highlight".

Can she generate interest among the core customer demographic of ticket-buying males aged 13 to 28?

 

[MisterPenguin]

It's probably like cars. It's almost impossible to sell a feminine car to a man, but it's much easier to sell a masculine car to a woman.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Is there a test we can give @TP2000 ? Maybe ask him to sing the lyrics to a song? "The rainbow connection" by Kermit the frog comes to mind. Maybe "Over the rainbow" by Judy Garland? He could always look them up and fool us. How about we have him take a pic of his fridge and see if he has Perrier water in there.

Yeah... just one of those is an actual cliche. You're mixing them up with Disney fans and yuppies.

Sincerely, -Mary Martin, Sandy Duncan, & Cathy Rigby