Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Casper Gutman]

And I am going to blow your mind here. Sex-Appeal and action is not just for the guys. Girls often like it too. The audiences are not a monolith and like cerebral and aesthetic.

Insane right?

Incredibly Misogynistic of you to presume only men are attracted to it.

Almost Like they are all human and not to be painted as a monolith.

No one feels attacked. You sound like you are going for the Ghostbusters 2016 offended film makers who instantly presumed hating men was the reason people suddenly stopped seeing that movie. It could not possibly be because it reached the point where no one wanted to give it money anymore because they did not fancy the type of movie it was, not the lead genders.

But go ahead and prime the latest excuse now. Captain Marvel 2 will fail expectations because of misogynistic men would not give it a chance.

You're stretching like silly putty.

Ghostbusters 2016 was awful, but it wasn't awful because the stars weren't hot enough. Ms Marvel was fantastic, and its success had absolutely nothing to do with the lead actress's physical attractiveness. Making "sex appeal" the sole basis on which you judge an actress or character is idiotic. It also represents a profoundly skewed understanding of the broad appeal of the MCU.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Woosh. That was close, your stance on speaking for many was almost unclear there.

Thank you for choosing this hill to die on. It makes your agenda crystal clear.

 

[celluloid]

Thank you for choosing this hill to die on. It makes your agenda crystal clear.

Of course. Which was already clear to you because you fabricate whatever you want it to be to suit your own latest agenda! You somehow lumped me into hating a show that I have never seen nor had I said I have seen it except for the first ten minutes one-night months ago.
That has nothing to do with how you somehow think that sex-appeal is just for guys.

But go on and speak for everyone, they must love it or else they are a (insert term for biggot here)

 

[BuddyThomas]

What Happened to Guillermo Del Toro's 'Haunted Mansion' Movie?

Guillermo del Toro was once set to helm a Haunted Mansion movie...but why did it never come to life?

collider.com

 

[Casper Gutman]

Anyway, I do worry about the success of The Marvels, because the 2023 box office is incredibly weird and the culture war machine will be cranked up to the max. I mean... *gestures at posters in this thread*. It's the one upcoming MCU film I'd most like to succeed, but the one (along with Thunderbolts) that I fear might struggle the most.

 

[celluloid]

What Happened to Guillermo Del Toro's 'Haunted Mansion' Movie?

Guillermo del Toro was once set to helm a Haunted Mansion movie...but why did it never come to life?

collider.com

Should have happened and starred Ryan Gosling. What a world where we have a film starring him as a top contender phenomenon at the same time this movie bombed.

Ryan Gosling is a huge Haunted Mansion fan. He would have given it a lot and as big as he is does not just take on every role so he is not overplayed to audiences. The timing of Barbie and this result is funny.

 

[BuddyThomas]

In all of my years on the worldwide interweb since the Netscape and dial up days, I don’t think anything has been more hysterical and entertaining to watch than TP2000 being attacked for NOT being gay.

That would be one heck of a long con of decades of Doris Day movies and Paul Lynde references.

He’s being attacked for not being gay? First of all, he is not being attacked at all. If he was, our dear darling beloved mother would swoop in and throw everyone in jail. Please point out this supposed attack. Just because you question someone doesn’t mean you are attacking them.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Should have happened and starred Ryan Gosling. What a world where we have a film starring him as a top contender phenomenon at the same time this movie bombed.

Ryan Gosling is a huge Haunted Mansion fan. He would have given it a lot and as big as he is does not just take on every role so he is not overplayed to audiences. The timing of Barbie and this result is funny.

Well, now he’s going to get a Best Supporting Actor nomination and depending on the rest of this year’s performances, he has a good chance to win.

 

[Disney Irish]

For what its worth, the topic of the breakdown of the demographics of the MCU has been done many times.

A recent study from 2021 found that 47% of MCU "fans" are women.

Is Gen Z Too Cool for Marvel?

Data indicates millennials are a driving force of interest in Marvel and superheroes.

pro.morningconsult.com

This aligns what audience tracking in a lot of MCU films said with percentage of female viewers being in the 40s consistently.

There is even a deeper look into the "Female Gaze" in MCU movies here:

AMERICANA: "Superheroes, Women, and Visual Pleasure: The Construction of the Female Gaze in the Marvel Cinematic Universe" by Orsolya Szujer

AMERICANA: "Superheroes, Women, and Visual Pleasure: The Construction of the Female Gaze in the Marvel Cinematic Universe" by Orsolya Szujer / Orsolya Szujer gained her master’s at Eötvös Loránd University in 2017, and is currently a third year PhD student in ELTE’s Gender in English and...

americanaejournal.hu

An interesting read.....

Basically the MCU is more wildly viewed by the female audience than some might realize.

 

[celluloid]

You're stretching like silly putty.

Ghostbusters 2016 was awful, but it wasn't awful because the stars weren't hot enough. Ms Marvel was fantastic, and its success had absolutely nothing to do with the lead actress's physical attractiveness. Making "sex appeal" the sole basis on which you judge an actress or character is idiotic. It also represents a profoundly skewed understanding of the broad appeal of the MCU

Exactly. Ghostbusters 2016 sucked because every character was written like they were in a Ghostbusters Movie. It is deeper than that but that is a gist sentence for it.

I don't know why you think I am saying any person is not attractive or appealing. But I also know you twisted what TP2000 said into something he did not.

The Marvels is just another cog in the MCU machine where you had to have watched it in order to get it. It feels like another prerequisite and the more Marvel is saturated with this, the more often we see their movies not do as well. Like Ant Man connection to Loki. Only this is even stronger of a tie in.

It is great you think this board is just full of bigots or misogynistic men. Quite the cynical approach.

Captain Marvel is likely to underperform for the reason of not as many people will want to go see it compared to what it cost. It is as simple as that.

I never said sex appeal was a sole reason. It is a crucial one for any character in the lead for most stories on screen. They have to be attractive to at least a good number of the audience. Disney does this all of the time. They are probably the worst at it.

Barbie just embraced it as a joke on itself. The world knows that Robbie and Gosling are equally even keel attractive to the masses enough to have that concept.

You think Tony Stark did not have sex appeal?
Black Widow?
Captain America?
Thor?
Hawkeye?

Do you think Han Solo had no sex appeal? He was honestly a fairly shallow character in the original story.

There was a type of guy for every lady. Most teen girls watch Loki for the dude's accent and mischievous charm as a character as part of the story. Not separate from it That's sex-appeal.

That sexual tension is cerebral to some people as well as physical.


It is not a misogynistic no no.

And this was all besides the point at any rate.

 

[MisterPenguin]

He was after a girl? He has insisted that he is gay about a bazillion times. Confused.

Not everyone has the long-lasting conviction to be Gold Star.

-MP,

 

[TP2000]

In all of my years on the worldwide interweb since the Netscape and dial up days, I don’t think anything has been more hysterical and entertaining to watch than TP2000 being attacked for NOT being gay.

That would be one heck of a long con of decades of Doris Day movies and Paul Lynde references.

It's got to be one of the funniest things I've ever had happen in my online life. And I've had some fun times.

Again, if only my mother could be here to see it all.

First of all, he is not being attacked at all. If he was, our dear darling beloved mother would swoop in and throw everyone in jail. Please point out this supposed attack. Just because you question someone doesn’t mean you are attacking them.

I would agree with you that I do not feel "attacked", perhaps because the accusations leveled against me are so cartoonishly overdone and just plain wrong, it's all rather amusing. And for what it's worth, I'm happy to have the accusations leveled against me because I think it says more about the arguments to be made for why Disney's films are bombing and losing money one after another now.

I have never asked a moderator here to defend me. I can remember one time a year or two ago when someone tried to claim I was racist because I love The Supremes so much, and I took it right to that person themselves without getting a moderator involved. So you will have no issue with me personally @BuddyThomas, nor have you had an issue from me in the past. I look forward to many more years of fun commentary here with you.

Honestly, who has time for worrying about "moderation" here? I wish we could be more open and honest about our positions, but I understand the need to keep fights from breaking out.

Extreme Physical Violence in Marvel Movies = Good & Acceptable
Bickering & Fighting With Words in Forums = Bad & Unacceptable

 

[celluloid]

He’s being attacked for not being gay? First of all, he is not being attacked at all. If he was, our dear darling beloved mother would swoop in and throw everyone in jail. Please point out this supposed attack. Just because you question someone doesn’t mean you are attacking them.

Why is his sexual preference of so much concern to you? It comes across as Harassing/ bullying, which could be labeled attacking.

 

[erasure fan1]

the MCU didn't become the most successful franchise in film history without appealing to men and women, boys and girls.

Very true. The larger the group that you can appeal to, the more successful you'll be most of the time. I don't think anyone sees it different.

Perhaps the idea that strong female character will alienate male audience members is a huge indictment of those audience members and the media machine that encourages them to think of such characters as a personal attack.

The idea that strong female characters are something that males are against is old and played out. The problem is too many people take criticism of bad female characters the wrong way. As an example, males didn't dislike vice admiral Holdo or Rose because they hated strong female characters. They disliked them because they were terribly written characters. If you make a true strong female character people, even males, will like them.

 

[celluloid]

Basically the MCU is more wildly viewed by the female audience than some might realize.

Great news. If/when The Marvels loses more Disney money this year, we can say women were unimrpressed with it just as much as men!

 

[TP2000]

I don't know why you think I am saying any person is not attractive or appealing. But I also know you twisted what TP2000 said into something he did not.

Thank you.

The Marvels is just another cog in the MCU machine where you had to have watched it in order to get it. It feels like another prerequisite and the more Marvel is saturated with this, the more often we see their movies not do as well. Like Ant Man connection to Loki. Only this is even stronger of a tie in.

It is great you think this board is just full of bigots or misogynistic men. Quite the cynical approach.

Captain Marvel is likely to underperform for the reason of not as many people will want to go see it compared to what it cost. It is as simple as that.

What I am now taking away from this afternoon's sidetrack topic into "Don't Admit Young Men Like To Look At Pretty Young Women" is that I need to get caught up on who all these female Marvel characters are and in what order their movies will be coming out over the next year or so. I'll do some homework later this evening after dessert.

I think it's going to be interesting to see how they do at the box office, within the broader picture of Marvel apparently weakening as a brand and a pop-culture fad, and how they perform against their male dominated movies from that same (weakened?) brand.

Interesting stuff to ponder as we start getting box office stats from those next Marvel movies.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Why is his sexual preference of so much concern to you? It comes across as Harassing/ bullying, which could be labeled attacking.

Not sure why you are trying to start an argument- but the issue is this - a supposed gay person constantly attacks films that contain gay content. That he HAS NOT EVEN SEEN: you do not need to defend him. He happens to be quite outspoken.

 

[celluloid]

Not sure why you are trying to start an argument- but the issue is this - a supposed gay person constantly attacks films that contain gay content. That he HAS NOT EVEN SEEN: you do not need to defend him. He happens to be quite outspoken;

I am not starting an argument at all. It is hilarious you came in here guns blazing caps lock and quoting going "Wait, he's not gay?" like you needed to be caught up on someone's sexual orientation.

Again. Why do you care about what he is attracted to?

Supposed gay? Is that like what my girlfriend thought of me because I liked showtunes, was a tech theater guy and went to Rocky Horror?

I am with EPCOT81Fan. This is a wild thing.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I am not starting an argument at all. It is hilarious you came in here guns blazing caps lock and quoting going "Wait, he's not gay?" like you needed to be caught up on someone's sexual orientation.

Again. Why do you care about what he is attracted to?

Supposed gay? Is that like what my girlfriend thought of me because I liked showtunes, was a tech theater guy and went to Rocky Horror?

I am with EPCOT81Fan. This is a wild thing.

Yawn. Again. He doesn’t need your defense, counselor. He is very loud and can take care of himself.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Very true. The larger the group that you can appeal to, the more successful you'll be most of the time. I don't think anyone sees it different.

The idea that strong female characters are something that males are against is old and played out. The problem is too many people take criticism of bad female characters the wrong way. As an example, males didn't dislike vice admiral Holdo or Rose because they hated strong female characters. They disliked them because they were terribly written characters. If you make a true strong female character people, even males, will like them.

Sure, some folks disliked Rose and Holdo based on the merits of the characters. But particularly in the case of Rose, there was an immense and tremendously ugly wave of sexist and racist rage directed at the character.

The line "oh, we don't hate ALL female characters," gets used a lot (let me get this out of the way - Ripley and Sarah Connor), but there are a lot of hugely popular personalities, both online and off (one mentioned recently in this thread) who thrive on attacking any female or minority character. Any minority representation is blown out of all proportion - we have millions screaming about the "M-She-U" because 2 of Marvel's 32 films have featured a female lead.

There is a particular audience that is used to be catered to by media and advertisers. As demographics change and advertisers and culture creators increasingly seek to expand the audience or even to appeal solely to new segments of the population, many members of that old audience are taking it as an assault, as an attempt to erase or destroy them. They are fighting back with every means at their disposal in a desperate struggle to define who is and isn't an appropriate audience member.