News Dismal Q3 Earnings

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
No, I'm trying to reconcile the idea that Cinemascore is only a measure of how fans enjoyed the movie when the narrative is that fans didn't enjoy the movie.
Because Cinemascore is based on people who saw the movie, not just Star Wars fanatics. Most people went and enjoyed what they saw, and weren't hard core about "this is canon that isn't". They just liked the movie, not the history.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Who hasn’t show? AP holders? Why would they when they can go in Sept for free. If I lived in CA and had an AP I wouldn’t buy a 1 day ticket even at half price to see a new land I can see 2 months later with my AP.

If attendance is flat at WDW when this opens that would surprise me, even in Sept which is a down time. Remember that FLE drove attendance growth when that opened at WDW.

As far as the movies go, Solo was a flop. Force Awakens had a huge box office because it was the first new SW movie in decades. I would be shocked if the next movie was under a billion. Any movie franchise which consistently produces $1B+ movies is highly popular. I am curious to see how the next trilogy does with no skywalkers. As we saw with Harry Potter making a trilogy without the loved characters is a gamble.
I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating. Disney almost guaranteed Solo wouldn't do well when they chose May for the release.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Because Cinemascore is based on people who saw the movie, not just Star Wars fanatics. Most people went and enjoyed what they saw, and weren't hard core about "this is canon that isn't". They just liked the movie, not the history.

I don't think anyone was disputing that the TLJ is canon. At least I haven't seen anyone with that opinion. If anything, most negative opinions stem from their acceptance that the film is canon and tarnishing the story of the OT characters.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I'm very curious to see how the new films outside the original trilogy story arc do. I could see them going either way.
Solo should be a warning to Disney that the name Star Wars doesn’t automatically equal $1B. The new trilogy needs to stand on its own with well developed characters and good writing. It’s an opportunity to move outside the restrictions of cannon around the skywalkers but it’s also risky.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Solo should be a warning to Disney that the name Star Wars doesn’t automatically equal $1B. The new trilogy needs to stand on its own with well developed characters and good writing. It’s an opportunity to move outside the restrictions of cannon around the skywalkers but it’s also risky.

What is your opinion of the Mandelorian tv series? I heard they brought in Lucas to consult which is one of Lucasfilm's better decisions.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
What is your opinion of the Mandelorian tv series? I heard they brought in Lucas to consult which is one of Lucasfilm's better decisions.
With the streaming service they at least have some time to develop characters without worrying about short term ratings like network tv. I just hope Disney gives them the creative freedom to make it unique and original. I’m good with Lucas being involved. It’s still his Galaxy far far away even if he cashed in and sold it to the mouse.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I think Cinemascore is a good measure of fans who went to see the movie, which carries inherent fanboyism, not the population at large. As you said, Solo earned an A- despite its obvious failure.

TLJ remains one of the most divisive, if not the most divisive, of the Star Wars films. Perhaps "generated conflicting buzz" would have been more accurate than "failed to generate positive buzz"?

All the normal metrics showed that at least 80% of those who saw the movie at least liked it. CinemaScore, critics' score, PostTrack, SurveyMonkey, online polls where there were several hundred thousand users (and thus, less susceptible to being bombed), and Box Office.

The ones who didn't like it had a portion of that group who really, really hated it. They hated it so much, they couldn't fathom that a majority of people liked it. They couldn't fathom why Kathleen Kennedy wouldn't be immediately fired. They posted hour long rants on YouTube cussing up a storm. They signed petitions to have Kennedy fired. They bombed the Rotten Tomatoes user score (and went after Solo such that RT had to change their policies and stop allowing votes before movies come out). [Nothing says you don't believe your own narrative that "everyone hates it" when you have to create a false score to prove you're right.]

When Solo didn't do well (and it had its production problems), they pointed to that as proof that Kennedy and Disney didn't know what they were doing, despite the fact that the other anthology film, Rogue One, did outstandingly well with critics, audience and Box Office. But they saw a trend: The movie they really hated (which was was actually successful with the majority) and Solo, and then the narrative was set... one bomb becomes equated with everything gone wrong.

In the end, Iger took responsibility for Solo. Kennedy is in no danger of losing her job. The ones who keep bringing that up are out of touch with reality.

The haters would like people to think that most or half of everyone hated TLJ, and they try to make people think that by being very loud and prevalent on social media. But again, if what they said was true, they wouldn't have to work so hard to convince everyone because everyone would be agreeing with them. And everyone is not.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
All the normal metrics showed that at least 80% of those who saw the movie at least liked it. CinemaScore, critics' score, PostTrack, SurveyMonkey, online polls where there were several hundred thousand users (and thus, less susceptible to being bombed), and Box Office.

The ones who didn't like it had a portion of that group who really, really hated it. They hated it so much, they couldn't fathom that a majority of people liked it. They couldn't fathom why Kathleen Kennedy wouldn't be immediately fired. They posted hour long rants on YouTube cussing up a storm. They signed petitions to have Kennedy fired. They bombed the Rotten Tomatoes user score (and went after Solo such that RT had to change their policies and stop allowing votes before movies come out). [Nothing says you don't believe your own narrative that "everyone hates it" when you have to create a false score to prove you're right.]

When Solo didn't do well (and it had its production problems), they pointed to that as proof that Kennedy and Disney didn't know what they were doing, despite the fact that the other anthology film, Rogue One, did outstandingly well with critics, audience and Box Office. But they saw a trend: The movie they really hated (which was was actually successful with the majority) and Solo, and then the narrative was set... one bomb becomes equated with everything gone wrong.

In the end, Iger took responsibility for Solo. Kennedy is in no danger of losing her job. The ones who keep bringing that up are out of touch with reality.

The haters would like people to think that most or half of everyone hated TLJ, and they try to make people think that by being very loud and prevalent on social media. But again, if what they said was true, they wouldn't have to work so hard to convince everyone because everyone would be agreeing with them. And everyone is not.

Excellent, I was wondering when you'd get here.

You are making a ton of conclusions about things no one is discussing. I don't see anyone saying most people didn't like TLJ. I don't even see people saying it's 50-50, but it is a fair amount, and indicative of the product that Lucasfilm is putting out. No one is saying Kennedy should lose her job, yet you leap to her defence. I can't put much stock in your constant reference to "they", you might as well just say the "other". The internet troll strawman is obviously not indicitive of the majority of people who didn't care for TLJ or Solo. The fact that you unironically use the term "haters" says a lot about your personal feelings, which are clearly in the positive extreme and Disney can do no wrong. You seem personally wounded that it's possible, just possible, that a good chunk of people do not care for these films and that they have valid, objective reasons. There are clearly opinions somewhere online of some person that trigger you deeply, which you bring into this forum. Which is fine, I respect your opinion, but your conclusion that the vast majority of the public liked TLJ and it is a great film is misplaced. It is, as most things, a mixed bag.

There are other polls that show middling scores for TLJ, it's all a matter of which you chose. The "review bomb" boogie man is a fallacy. Also, I believe the Rotten Tomato policy changes were the result of protecting Captain Marvel, not Solo. Any way you slice it, TLJ (and certainly Solo) were not homerun masterpieces that were universally loved and any opinion otherwise must be a dirty rotten basement dweller.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Excellent, I was wondering when you'd get here.

You are making a ton of conclusions about things no one is discussing. I don't see anyone saying most people didn't like TLJ. I don't even see people saying it's 50-50, but it is a fair amount, and indicative of the product that Lucasfilm is putting out. No one is saying Kennedy should lose her job, yet you leap to her defence. I can't put much stock in your constant reference to "they", you might as well just say the "other". The internet troll strawman is obviously not indicitive of the majority of people who didn't care for TLJ or Solo. The fact that you unironically use the term "haters" says a lot about your personal feelings, which are clearly in the positive extreme and Disney can do no wrong. You seem personally wounded that it's possible, just possible, that a good chunk of people do not care for these films and that they have valid, objective reasons. There are clearly opinions somewhere online of some person that trigger you deeply, which you bring into this forum. Which is fine, I respect your opinion, but your conclusion that the vast majority of the public liked TLJ and it is a great film is misplaced. It is, as most things, a mixed bag.

There are other polls that show middling scores for TLJ, it's all a matter of which you chose. The "review bomb" boogie man is a fallacy. Also, I believe the Rotten Tomato policy changes were the result of protecting Captain Marvel, not Solo. Any way you slice it, TLJ (and certainly Solo) were not homerun masterpieces that were universally loved and any opinion otherwise must be a dirty rotten basement dweller.

Sorry.

That you haven't been paying attention.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
Sorry.

That you haven't been paying attention.

Ah, excellent counter point. Thanks for the debate. :rolleyes:

Look friend, you are obviously in the know when it comes to the Disney Corporation, you probably even have inside sources that you are friends with. It is understandable that you would feel the need to defend these people. If you took a step back however, you could accept that they are humans and not infallible. TLJ simply isn’t as beloved as the original trilogy films. It is not perfect, it may be possible that some poor choices were made along the way. It's no dumpsterfire, but there is something off about it with a lot of people (though not the majority of people).

At first, I really hated TLJ. But having spent time on this board and looking up positive reviews on youtube, I’ve come to appreciate some of the new directions the film went in. I still don’t care for the film and the new directions, but I completely understand that a lot of people love the film and they are genuine in their admiration. Not the majority, but they are out there. I suggest you read the opinions of some of the “others” you say are out there, the ones that anger you so much, and really listen to what they are saying. Give them merit and consideration and do not automatically dismiss them as trolling, hating, or some combination of racism or sexism or whatever-ism. I think you would find more in common than you think. :)
 

Kingtut

Well-Known Member
Honestly, it was for the best though. If you dive into the EU you would find it's a hilarious mess of fan stories that got signed off by 'Ol Georgie to make a buck. Personal favorites are a ship the size of a B-Wing that could destroy stars, a thing that would hurl asteroids at planets to break them apart (built by the Hutts because they need planet erasing weapons too), some guy named "Lord Shadowspawn", and IG-88 taking over the computers of the Death Star 2 right before it gets destroyed.

Look at some of this stuff and you won't blame Disney for nuking the EU (and this isn't including characters either):
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Superweapon/Legends
Your right about the existing EU stuff. But just think where we were at the end of the RotJ. Emperor dead ( well maybe but at least on injured reserve), ONE Jedi master, a ragtag rebellion that just won an incredible victory, and a galaxy controlled by the remains of the Imperial fleet. I think most creative types could come up with unlimited stories about what happens in the galaxy from that point forward ( some of them would actually be good) and FA is the best story Disney could come up with. That says to me that Disney has no idea just what made SW special. Galaxies Edge can be successful because it's a theme park attraction/land if it's done well enough. It will not be successful JUST because it's SW.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Ah, excellent counter point. Thanks for the debate. :rolleyes:

Look friend, you are obviously in the know when it comes to the Disney Corporation, you probably even have inside sources that you are friends with. It is understandable that you would feel the need to defend these people. If you took a step back however, you could accept that they are humans and not infallible. TLJ simply isn’t as beloved as the original trilogy films. It is not perfect, it may be possible that some poor choices were made along the way. It's no dumpsterfire, but there is something off about it with a lot of people (though not the majority of people).

At first, I really hated TLJ. But having spent time on this board and looking up positive reviews on youtube, I’ve come to appreciate some of the new directions the film went in. I still don’t care for the film and the new directions, but I completely understand that a lot of people love the film and they are genuine in their admiration. Not the majority, but they are out there. I suggest you read the opinions of some of the “others” you say are out there, the ones that anger you so much, and really listen to what they are saying. Give them merit and consideration and do not automatically dismiss them as trolling, hating, or some combination of racism or sexism or whatever-ism. I think you would find more in common than you think.

Your ill-informed opinions and lack of being informed about what's happening with the haters (what euphemism would you prefer) and your willful refusal to learn ends the lesson here. Good day.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
For real, the majority of the EU was nothing more than glorified fan fiction that conflicted with lore established in the prequels (because much of it was released BEFORE the prequels) long before the Disney deal happened. I'm glad it's been relegated to the dumpster fire that is non-cannon.

There was some really good EU stuff, but it was vastly outweighed by the amount of horrendous garbage. And as you said, most of the really good stuff was already in conflict with the prequels. The original Timothy Zahn trilogy was much better than anything that's been released since (including both the prequel and sequel trilogies), and I would have loved to see it put to film as a sequel trilogy. But it was almost completely overridden by the prequels, and it had a few silly aspects of its own.
 

FoodRockz

Well-Known Member
It took a while for me to get my husband to put it into words, but his opinion is that the ST just re-told the OT with new faces. Yes, he enjoyed them, but they aren't anything special to him, either, nor does he feel a deep connection to the new characters. For a little bit of scope, he didn't hate the PT (except Jar-Jar). There were scenes in the ST that he loved, but for the most part he's sort of "meh". He WANTS to be excited about Star Wars again, though...that much is very clear to me. Is he angry about the ST? No...but he does feel sort of disappointed and let down.

I don't know that I'd call him a super-fan, but my MIL's basement was FULL of Star Wars stuff until she sold her house, and Star Wars quotes and references have been flying around on the regular since long before I met my husband in 1991.

Random question: Is this ST/OT/PT thing a largely used abbreviation for Star Wars fans? I'm tickled because I work in rehabilitation.
 

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