News Dismal Q3 Earnings

mikejs78

Premium Member
If I had to put my finger on why the Prequels and Sequels haven’t generated positive buzz
I don't accept that premise. Internet fandom isn't the same as audience reaction. TLJ, despite the supposed negative Internet buzz, still received an "A" CinemaScore, which is the best measure that we have of moviegoer sentiment. It also made $1.3 Billion. In fact, all the Disney-era Star Wars movies except Solo garnered an A.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Oh, I absolutely think they should be choosy about what they use, but I was under the impression they weren't choosy at all and basically tossed almost everything.
They wanted to start with a clean slate in order to allow for creative freedom for the sequels and for other storytelling. They consider the EU "non-canon" but good source material. For example, there is now a canon trilogy of books about Grand Admiral Thrawn, written by Timothy Zahn (who wrote the Heir to the Empire trilogy that kicked off the EU), and Thrawn was used in the Star Wars rebels TV show.

Here's a good article (from 2 years ago, so it may be out of date) of now-canon material that had the EU as its original source. https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-star-wars-has-reintroduced-from-the-old-expa-1792224856
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
Oh, I absolutely think they should be choosy about what they use, but I was under the impression they weren't choosy at all and basically tossed almost everything.
Yep, everything went. There were a few good stories in the EU from what I remember. Darth Revan was apparently decent (and kind of survived with the Clone Wars series), Jaina Solo, and Thrawn (which was a huge arc of Rebels but not 1/1 with the books). But I get why they killed it all. If they really started to pick it apart then fans would be even more mad with why they chose X over Y. They just tore the band-aid off and kept moving.

Some EU ship designs are coming back in slowly (in Clone Wars and Rebels) which is nice but getting rid of the "ultimate XYZ weapon" idea.
They wanted to start with a clean slate in order to allow for creative freedom for the sequels and for other storytelling. They consider the EU "non-canon" but good source material. For example, there is now a canon trilogy of books about Grand Admiral Thrawn, written by Timothy Zahn (who wrote the Heir to the Empire trilogy that kicked off the EU), and Thrawn was used in the Star Wars rebels TV show.

Here's a good article (from 2 years ago, so it may be out of date) of now-canon material that had the EU as its original source. https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-star-wars-has-reintroduced-from-the-old-expa-1792224856
And it was glorious. (Also, the Outrider design lived on too)
 

BigThunderMatt

Well-Known Member
Honestly, it was for the best though. If you dive into the EU you would find it's a hilarious mess of fan stories that got signed off by 'Ol Georgie to make a buck. Personal favorites are a ship the size of a B-Wing that could destroy stars, a thing that would hurl asteroids at planets to break them apart (built by the Hutts because they need planet erasing weapons too), some guy named "Lord Shadowspawn", and IG-88 taking over the computers of the Death Star 2 right before it gets destroyed.

Look at some of this stuff and you won't blame Disney for nuking the EU (and this isn't including characters either):
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Superweapon/Legends


For real, the majority of the EU was nothing more than glorified fan fiction that conflicted with lore established in the prequels (because much of it was released BEFORE the prequels) long before the Disney deal happened. I'm glad it's been relegated to the dumpster fire that is non-cannon.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
They wanted to start with a clean slate in order to allow for creative freedom for the sequels and for other storytelling. They consider the EU "non-canon" but good source material. For example, there is now a canon trilogy of books about Grand Admiral Thrawn, written by Timothy Zahn (who wrote the Heir to the Empire trilogy that kicked off the EU), and Thrawn was used in the Star Wars rebels TV show.

Here's a good article (from 2 years ago, so it may be out of date) of now-canon material that had the EU as its original source. https://io9.gizmodo.com/everything-star-wars-has-reintroduced-from-the-old-expa-1792224856
Thanks! I really need to remember the EU when I'm looking for reading material...I have a copy of Attack of the Clones signed by R.A. Salvatore that I keep forgetting about because it's safely put away...
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
I don't accept that premise. Internet fandom isn't the same as audience reaction. TLJ, despite the supposed negative Internet buzz, still received an "A" CinemaScore, which is the best measure that we have of moviegoer sentiment. It also made $1.3 Billion. In fact, all the Disney-era Star Wars movies except Solo garnered an A.

I think Cinemascore is a good measure of fans who went to see the movie, which carries inherent fanboyism, not the population at large. As you said, Solo earned an A- despite its obvious failure.

TLJ remains one of the most divisive, if not the most divisive, of the Star Wars films. Perhaps "generated conflicting buzz" would have been more accurate than "failed to generate positive buzz"?
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
TLJ remains one of the most divisive, if not the most divisive, of the Star Wars films. Perhaps "generated conflicting buzz" would have been more accurate than "failed to generate positive buzz"?
That's fair. But as far as cinemascore, if it's a measure of fans, then why is it that it's the hardcore OT fans who seem to dislike it the most?
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
That's fair. But as far as cinemascore, if it's a measure of fans, then why is it that it's the hardcore OT fans who seem to dislike it the most?

Are you asking why OT fans seem to have the most contempt for TLJ? It might be simply that it's different and they dont want that. I think there's also a large percentage that view the sequels as actively destroying what they liked about the OT, so it's a bit personal for them. I'm not 100% sure, I think a real OT superfan could probably explain better. Personally, I didn't care for TLJ, but I don't consider it terrible. With such extremes of opinion, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.
 

mikejs78

Premium Member
Are you asking why OT fans seem to have the most contempt for TLJ? It might be simply that it's different and they dont want that. I think there's also a large percentage that view the sequels as actively destroying what they liked about the OT, so it's a bit personal for them. I'm not 100% sure, I think a real OT superfan could probably explain better. Personally, I didn't care for TLJ, but I don't consider it terrible. With such extremes of opinion, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.
No, I'm trying to reconcile the idea that Cinemascore is only a measure of how fans enjoyed the movie when the narrative is that fans didn't enjoy the movie.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Which does not bode well for the argument that guests are holding off for SWGE/ROTR/RAT/Rail Road or anything else to open. It does show that guests are holding off for discounts and won't travel unless there are discounts.
The DL situation is unique. They blocked out AP holders for the summer in the hope that people who already dropped hundreds of dollars on an AP would then be willing to spend another $150 for a one day ticket to visit a half finished land. Pure greed. It didn’t happen. Then they offered a half price single day ticket to AP holders only. The crowds are back. Obviously the discounts worked but there is no way to know if blocked out AP holders would have paid for full price if the full land was open. WDW may be a better test. If the crowds are flat at DHS then that will be eye opening.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
No, I'm trying to reconcile the idea that Cinemascore is only a measure of how fans enjoyed the movie when the narrative is that fans didn't enjoy the movie.

If the narrative is that most fans didn't enjoy the movie, then I would say that's incorrect. Many fans loved it, many fans hated it. I don't think there is a single unit of measurment to determine which side is the most populated. We'd have to incorporate various metrics which I think would ultimately conclude with what we know, there's extremes at both ends.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
If the narrative is that most fans didn't enjoy the movie, then I would say that's incorrect. Many fans loved it, many fans hated it. I don't think there is a single unit of measurment to determine which side is the most populated. We'd have to incorporate various metrics which I think would ultimately conclude with what we know, there's extremes at both ends.
If it's a social media narrative, then almost always the negative side gets more views and spreads more, but that doesn't at all imply that more people didn't like it, just that the dislike crowd is more vocal about it. All things social media work that way, trends are dominated by the negative, not the positive.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
If it's a social media narrative, then almost always the negative side gets more views and spreads more, but that doesn't at all imply that more people didn't like it, just that the dislike crowd is more vocal about it. All things social media work that way, trends are dominated by the negative, not the positive.

I don't think social media alone would be a good metric either. I think it's clear that the film is a mixed bag when it comes to reception. The extent of the two extremes seems to be a unique situation for a Star Wars film.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
That's fair. But as far as cinemascore, if it's a measure of fans, then why is it that it's the hardcore OT fans who seem to dislike it the most?
Are you asking why OT fans seem to have the most contempt for TLJ? It might be simply that it's different and they dont want that. I think there's also a large percentage that view the sequels as actively destroying what they liked about the OT, so it's a bit personal for them. I'm not 100% sure, I think a real OT superfan could probably explain better. Personally, I didn't care for TLJ, but I don't consider it terrible. With such extremes of opinion, the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.
It took a while for me to get my husband to put it into words, but his opinion is that the ST just re-told the OT with new faces. Yes, he enjoyed them, but they aren't anything special to him, either, nor does he feel a deep connection to the new characters. For a little bit of scope, he didn't hate the PT (except Jar-Jar). There were scenes in the ST that he loved, but for the most part he's sort of "meh". He WANTS to be excited about Star Wars again, though...that much is very clear to me. Is he angry about the ST? No...but he does feel sort of disappointed and let down.

I don't know that I'd call him a super-fan, but my MIL's basement was FULL of Star Wars stuff until she sold her house, and Star Wars quotes and references have been flying around on the regular since long before I met my husband in 1991.
 

The_Jobu

Well-Known Member
It took a while for me to get my husband to put it into words, but his opinion is that the ST just re-told the OT with new faces. Yes, he enjoyed them, but they aren't anything special to him, either, nor does he feel a deep connection to the new characters. For a little bit of scope, he didn't hate the PT (except Jar-Jar). There were scenes in the ST that he loved, but for the most part he's sort of "meh". He WANTS to be excited about Star Wars again, though...that much is very clear to me. Is he angry about the ST? No...but he does feel sort of disappointed and let down.

I don't know that I'd call him a super-fan, but my MIL's basement was FULL of Star Wars stuff until she sold her house, and Star Wars quotes and references have been flying around on the regular since long before I met my husband in 1991.

I think a lot of OT fans are in the same boat as your husband. The Jar-Jar point is spot on :joyfull:
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
And yet...they haven’t shown?

Can we seriously debate that not having mobs and lines for ANY new Disney land in an environment where people are starved for just that thing is not patently silly?

Let alone this “blockbuster” worldwide franchise?

Something is up...we don’t know for sure what all the factors are...

But on that $5 billion?

Yeah...2.0 in 2015....1.1 in 16...1.2 in 17....0.4 in 18

Now if only we could plot somekind of pattern there??
Who hasn’t show? AP holders? Why would they when they can go in Sept for free. If I lived in CA and had an AP I wouldn’t buy a 1 day ticket even at half price to see a new land I can see 2 months later with my AP.

If attendance is flat at WDW when this opens that would surprise me, even in Sept which is a down time. Remember that FLE drove attendance growth when that opened at WDW.

As far as the movies go, Solo was a flop. Force Awakens had a huge box office because it was the first new SW movie in decades. I would be shocked if the next movie was under a billion. Any movie franchise which consistently produces $1B+ movies is highly popular. I am curious to see how the next trilogy does with no skywalkers. As we saw with Harry Potter making a trilogy without the loved characters is a gamble.
 

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